a born-again Christian can never (keyword: never) lose their salvation

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Jan 6, 2018
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a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you
a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you
I have a better and Biblical analogy. Can a dog eat it's vomit? Can a washed pig wallow in the mud again?
 
S

Seedz

Guest
Among many in the church I know it does. Most in the church can only understand the necessity for works to mean works earn justification/salvation. It's so bad in the church right now that many think to purposely do something right is wrong because that would be 'works' (you trying to earn your own salvation). The thinking is, right things just have to happen by themselves or else it's you trying to earn your own salvation. Think I'm kidding?
I feel you! I understand what you mean. I just feel as if many are walking on eggshells. Everyone is worried about making sure they are doing it "right".

I'm 27, grew up with Christian parents. Around 12 years old I began making a conscious effort to live for the Lord. Ever since, I've had my ups and downs, but during all that time, I had the opportunity to meet different Christians and serve in the music ministry in a few different churches.

Throughout my time I realized that people in the church, are just normal people. For some reason as a kid I remember that a lot of the folks serving in the church would actively make efforts to somehow seem spotless, or proper. Not sure what word to use. As years went by I saw people fall into drugs, pastors cheat on their wives, people doubt Gods goodness, and women fall into "temptation".

The reason I bring this up is not to shame the church and call them names, but to bring awareness to the fact that Jesus doesn't automatically and perpetually make anything "better". Most people spend their lives fighting urges just to fail. Once they do, they feel terrible guilt and it really destroys some people.

Not to mention how there is a very high risk in kids developing in such a way that they may see non Christians as bad people, I know I did for a long time.

In the past 2 years of my life things have been changing. Not sure where I'm going, but I know for a fact that people can Be good people even without Jesus.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I guess maybe we are living in the wrong times for this to be evident.
Paul calls it 'men who suppress the truth by their wickedness'.

We are in desperate need of a truther movement in the church today. It's happening in the affairs of the world but I'm not seeing it in the church.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Throughout my time I realized that people in the church, are just normal people. For some reason as a kid I remember that a lot of the folks serving in the church would actively make efforts to somehow seem spotless, or proper. Not sure what word to use.
People like to use the term 'Pharrisitical' (however you spell that, lol). By all appearances good on the outside, but full of wickedness and greed and lust on the inside.



As years went by I saw people fall into drugs, pastors cheat on their wives, people doubt Gods goodness, and women fall into "temptation".
Yes, I have too. But I also know how close I've come to being one of them..................well, not the part about women........I'm a guy.



The reason I bring this up is not to shame the church and call them names, but to bring awareness to the fact that Jesus doesn't automatically and perpetually make anything "better".
I would change that to say he doesn't automatically make everything better. But surely victory over sin in some measure begins the moment the Holy Spirit comes into you.



Most people spend their lives fighting urges just to fail. Once they do, they feel terrible guilt and it really destroys some people.
Key word 'fighting'. It's because the church is terribly ignorant about 'how' to stand up to temptation in the Holy Spirit, and because of that don't teach that. God does the fighting for us if we'll just sit still and let him. I know, I know, still easier said than done. But surely better than fighting it out in our own powerlessness without aid of Holy Spirit.



Not to mention how there is a very high risk in kids developing in such a way that they may see non Christians as bad people, I know I did for a long time.
Yes, we're taught to do that. What we are not taught to do is sympathize with them.



In the past 2 years of my life things have been changing. Not sure where I'm going, but I know for a fact that people can Be good people even without Jesus.
But can people be righteous without Jesus? The answer is 'no'.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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John 10:27-30. God bless
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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You read the scripture, Don't question me, question God.
You question others but don't allow others to question you. Isn't that what a debate and discussion all about? How can you learn if questions are never asked?
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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You question others but don't allow others to question you. Isn't that what a debate and discussion all about? How can you learn if questions are never asked?
I don't debate, which are auguements , and being taught by the holy spirit and scripture, it is forbidden to do, and I will obey.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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I have a better and Biblical analogy. Can a dog eat it's vomit? Can a washed pig wallow in the mud again?
You might not like this one, but all that do come to Jesus are saved, but all that do not have the holy spirit, they are not his. Those that have the holy spirit will inherit eternal life, and those that don't will lose their soul. There are a lot of scriptures pertaining to this.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I don't debate, which are auguements , and being taught by the holy spirit and scripture, it is forbidden to do, and I will obey.
It's the nature of this forum to have debate and discussion. Exactly what is the point of your posts if you are not willing to discuss what you have written? Do you really think that your the only one here that has spiritual understanding? This strikes me as being arrogant and that you are not to be taken seriously.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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You might not like this one, but all that do come to Jesus are saved, but all that do not have the holy spirit, they are not his. Those that have the holy spirit will inherit eternal life, and those that don't will lose their soul. There are a lot of scriptures pertaining to this.
You just said that all who come to Jesus are saved and immediately say that those that don't have the Holy Spirit are not saved. I guess that you meant to say that only some that come to Jesus are saved but not everyone who comes to Jesus. It would also be helpful if you were to provide scripture to support your positions on certain points. Nobody is just going to simply take your word for anything.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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It's the nature of this forum to have debate and discussion. Exactly what is the point of your posts if you are not willing to discuss what you have written? Do you really think that your the only one here that has spiritual understanding? This strikes me as being arrogant and that you are not to be taken seriously.
I'm finished here. I know for a fact that you don't know the bible, nor are you holy ghost filled. GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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You just said that all who come to Jesus are saved and immediately say that those that don't have the Holy Spirit are not saved. I guess that you meant to say that only some that come to Jesus are saved but not everyone who comes to Jesus. It would also be helpful if you were to provide scripture to support your positions on certain points. Nobody is just going to simply take your word for anything.
Read it for yourself. I got nothing more to add.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I was not referring that this site is God's kingdom, but, instead the kingdom I live in is God's kingdom
If you live on this planet you are not at this time in God's kingdom. Where do you live exactly that you consider God's kingdom.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I'm finished here. I know for a fact that you don't know the bible, nor are you holy ghost filled. GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.
You must be looking in a mirror. Actually, I am the one that is finished here because you have nothing at all useful to say.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
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You might not like this one, but all that do come to Jesus are saved, but all that do not have the holy spirit, they are not his. Those that have the holy spirit will inherit eternal life, and those that don't will lose their soul. There are a lot of scriptures pertaining to this.
I knew you would't like it. The bible and scriptures are for those that believe, so they are the ones that are getting instructions, not the lost, they don't want God or the bible. Scriptures are taking to the believers about the lost, and no longer be like them. it is not talking to the lost.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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I'm finished here. I know for a fact that you don't know the bible, nor are you holy ghost filled. GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.
Just curious, but how old are you? 12?

If someone disagrees with YOU and what YOU BELIEVE, you "know for a fact" that they don't know the Bible?

And what gives you the right to declare someone does not have the Holy Spirit?