A Closer Look at Ephesians 1:13

[Wansvic]

When you avoid what the text says because you do not like what the text says then you Wansvic are not evaluating the text. I have read through all of the posts in this topic and what I have seen is that no matter what text is presented to you to show that water baptism is not required for salvation you keep saying "ya but". You do not want to see truth you just want to follow the "Oneness Pentecostal" view.
You are trying to preach a different gospel and for such should be ignored.

I have not been shown any scripture that provides proof of water baptism not being required for salvation.

As I requested previously, "Since you disagree, please provide scriptures of when sins are remitted that oppose this view."

 

[Justified]

This has been answered in another thread, but you still have your eyes closed.

 

[Wansvic]

Ephesus (located in Asia) – Population comprised of Jew and Gentile believers.

The Apostle Paul’s letter to the Ephesians was written to the church in 60 A.D. In the letter Paul reminded the Ephesians that they trusted in Jesus after hearing the word of truth the gospel of their salvation. He goes on to say, in him also after you believed you were sealed with the Holy Ghost. This comment can be seen as relating to what is recorded in the biblical record specific to the Ephesians. (Ephesus disciples)

Previously, in the year 53 A.D. during Paul’s third mission campaign he instructed Ephesians concerning the need to believe on Jesus and to be re-baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. They trusted that Jesus was indeed the messiah and obeyed Paul’s instructions. Paul then laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:1-6) This is a direct parallel to what Paul stated in Ephesians 1:13.

The Acts record continues with Paul joining the newly converted disciples and persuading others as well concerning the kingdom of God. This went on for 3 months. (Acts 7 & 8) Paul departed from the synagogue when others refused to accept the truth he shared. Paul took the disciples who had believed and obeyed “The Way” (Acts 19:1-6) and disputed daily in the school of Tyrannus for 2 years. (Acts 19:9)

This enabled all in Asia (Jews and Gentiles) to hear the word of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 1:1-2)

It is also noteworthy that during Paul’s stay the record shows others believing his message, confessed, (sins) and showed their deeds. (Acts 19:17-18) This is an implication of repentance and the requirement of those seeking water baptism as noted in Luke 3:8, Matt 3:8, and Acts 26:20.


Acts 19:1-10
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

What was heard and believed?

Just as Paul explained what was required of the Ephesus disciples, it is noted in the previous chapter that Aquila and Priscilla explained more clearly the Word of God to Apollos who had only received John's baptism as well:

"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ." Acts 18:25-28

 

[KarynLouise]

Here's what's sad to me. Why can't you guys respectfully say to one another, I see why you think that, but I disagree because...? I mean, obviously belief and baptism are both important. The disagreement is where in that process salvation actually occurs. Do you really have to keep arguing about it with the same points over and over, getting more and more hostile toward one another? How about we accept that God is the one who knows our hearts and knows when we're saved? How about we just be obedient and let Him be the one that decides? I grew up in a church that taught that immersion baptism was the moment of salvation, and people would have these questions: well, what if you've decided to be baptized, but on your way to the baptismal there's an earthquake and you die? Would anyone really guess that because they didn't make it to the water, that person wasn't saved? Maybe, but I'll just leave that between that person and God.

 

[Wansvic]

Here's what's sad to me. Why can't you guys respectfully say to one another, I see why you think that, but I disagree because...? I mean, obviously belief and baptism are both important. The disagreement is where in that process salvation actually occurs. Do you really have to keep arguing about it with the same points over and over, getting more and more hostile toward one another? How about we accept that God is the one who knows our hearts and knows when we're saved? How about we just be obedient and let Him be the one that decides? I grew up in a church that taught that immersion baptism was the moment of salvation, and people would have these questions: well, what if you've decided to be baptized, but on your way to the baptismal there's an earthquake and you die? Would anyone really guess that because they didn't make it to the water, that person wasn't saved? Maybe, but I'll just leave that between that person and God.

Many have established belief's because pastors avoid (intentionally or unintentionally) scripture that goes directly against their church doctrine. The Word says that our responsibility is to plant and/or water seeds. (scripture) And it is God who will give revelation to those in pursuit of His truth. One can conclude that revelation cannot manifest if believers neglect to plant and/or water seeds. It is God's Word that will not return void. Word must be planted for that process to occur.

I experienced this concept myself and want others to at least be given the opportunity to compare what they have been told with actual scriptures on a topic.

A personal example of this:
I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues when I was very young. Years later I got water baptized "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." Afterward, I was presented with evidence that the forerunners of the RCC altered the way water baptism was administered. (325 A.D.) Many today unknowingly follow that tradition rather than complying with scripture. As confirmed by the Word of God, ALL recorded water baptisms were done in the name of the Lord Jesus. I was water baptized that way. After being obedient to the actual Word my spiritual eyes were indeed open. (John 3:3) I could "see" (understand) scriptures with greater clarity than in the past.

"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, ..." 1 Sam. 15:22

Remember that it was Jesus Himself that stated "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved..." He did not say, He who is saved by believing is to get baptized. Yet, many are teaching just that very thing.

I am more concerned about the results of not sharing scripture. Than worrying about ruffling a few feathers by sharing scripture that debunks error. My prayer is that the seeds of truth will produce fruit. Something the enemy fights against, day in and day out.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

obviously belief and baptism are both important. The disagreement is where in that process salvation actually occurs.

Precious friend, and Even Further Disagreement about whether
God Even Requires water today. Actually He Has Only :

ONE Baptism

Today, Under Pure GRACE!

GRACE And Peace...