A Double Standard in Christianity?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

MatthewWestfieldUK

Well-known member
May 13, 2021
871
498
63
Men are different than women.

Women are more spiritually inclined and men are analytical.

Therefore, men are more inclined to reason out doctrine while women may accept a doctrine because it seems to them to be spiritually viable.

Adam was not deceived; but the woman being deceived fell into transgression (1 Timothy 2:14).
Great summary here
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
I don't disagree with you there...they can teach other women...however, they are not allowed to teach or usurp authority over a man.

Therefore, if they are going to teach in a church setting, they must have a covering (1 Corinthians 11) in the form of a man who can publicly correct them in the case that they might be deceived on a matter (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

PS I don't see anything in the verses you shared about a man being put on a woman's head as a covering--so i'm not going to try that! I also don't see anything about a man publicly correcting a potentially deceived woman. Are you reading from the Misogynist Commentary Bible--personally I wouldn't recommend that one.:confused:
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113

I know women who far surpass men in biblical understanding. This is such an over generalization. I for one reason out scriptures--I do not take what anyone teaches as truth unless I study it out for myself.:confused:
 

MatthewWestfieldUK

Well-known member
May 13, 2021
871
498
63
I know women who far surpass men in biblical understanding. This is such an over generalization. I for one reason out scriptures--I do not take what anyone teaches as truth unless I study it out for myself.:confused:
Agreed that it's just a generalisation and not the rule. There are exceptions. It simply highlights the strength/weaknesses of most folks.
Im not against women preaching. Mixed gender preaching is not something that I have come across though
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
I'll try putting a man on my head to cover my head, but I'd prefer a scarf or a cap personally...

oh and that usurping bit....please read the 19th Century Adame Clarke Commentary below. I emphasize the 19th Century since we are now in the 21st century...and yet as I said we seem to be regressing....:confused:
Were you going to post that commentary?

Actually, long hair is given to women as a covering...and it represents the authority that is over them in the men of the fellowship.

Therefore, those women who have short hair and also do not cover their heads in some other way, while praying or prophesying in public...are disrespecting the men in their congregation...dishonouring them.
 
Jul 24, 2021
494
78
28
Again...

ESV
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

HCSB
But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

KJV
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

MOUNCE
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is · Christ, and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is · God.

NASB
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NKJV
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NLT
But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NRSV
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of Christ.

The majority of English translations show either directly or indirectly that the marriage relationship is in view, by using wife/husband or a singular/specific article for the female.
You cited 9 verses. 3 of the 9 states husband/wife relationship. Not really a majority, no?

The ESV, NRSV are somewhat controversial bible translations ("The ESV is based upon an entirely DIFFERENT Greek text than the King James Bible", "..NRSV is more liberal than the ESV..." - I will certainly read more). In your quoted hyperlinks of the ESV and NRSV there are footnotes that expound the usage as "man" and "woman" not "husband" and "wife". Why choose bibles involved in the gender neutral wars (though I still have to read some more opinions)?
Also translated phrase "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man..." NOT "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every husband...". The ἀνδρὸς is used as "husband" in other verses and the root greek is the same as ἀνήρ. Are you cherry picking the meaning within one sentence? I think you would be hard pressed to find a translation of "..Christ is the head of husbands.."

Also, Mounce Reverse interlinear uses syntax/grammar of english to achieve greek, not the other way around (I.e. not exegetical - "In the process, I came up with the term "reverse interlinear." A traditional interlinear maintains Greek word order and alters the English, which makes the English almost unusuable. But if I maintained English word order and altered the Greek, then both the English and Greek are helpful; hence, "reverse interlinear.")
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
I don't disagree with you there...they can teach other women...however, they are not allowed to teach or usurp authority over a man.

Therefore, if they are going to teach in a church setting, they must have a covering (1 Corinthians 11) in the form of a man who can publicly correct them in the case that they might be deceived on a matter (1 Timothy 2:11-14).
Based on Corinthian 11 the covering is clearly some type of cloth that would cover the head--it is not referring to one's husband. It's important to note that it is a 'custom' not a regulation. " It was to be practiced when a woman was praying or prophesying in the assembly--that is the Jewish synagogue, where Christian were meeting along with Jews on the Sabbath:

"Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."--Acts 18:4

"Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized."--Acts 18:18





"Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."--Acts 18:4

"Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized."--Acts 18:18
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
The relationship of women to men is; as well as the authority of men over women.

If a woman is not married, the authority that is over her would be her father; another option might be the pastor; who biblically should always be a male.

I have never heard such a thing. If a woman is an adult she has no authority over her except God. How on earth would a father or pastor have authority over an adult woman? Such unbiblical nonsense! JBF, based on your posts and rude responses, I cannot believe that you are a Christian who follow the teachings of Scripture--false teachers are those who begin to make up their own doctrines.

"28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them."--Acts 28-30
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,682
29,024
113
Agreed that it's just a generalisation and not the rule. There are exceptions. It simply highlights the strength/weaknesses of most folks.
Im not against women preaching. Mixed gender preaching is not something that I have come across though
Hello Matthew :) I find it a bit odd when that passage about Eve being deceived while Adam was not is offered up by a male and given as a reason why women should not be accorded any authority, because the impression it gives is that men want to believe that men are never deceived, and obviously that in itself is a deception. Alongside that is also the implication that it is better to deliberately and willfully disobey God than it is to disobey based on not knowing any better. If men were never deceived there would be no false teachings, right? And yet we hear all the time complaints about how far the church has fallen and about this false teacher and that false teacher. By and large the false teachers are always men. Men who have been deceived, and then mislead others...
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Based on Corinthian 11 the covering is clearly some type of cloth that would cover the head--it is not referring to one's husband. It's important to note that it is a 'custom' not a regulation.
No, Paul said that they had no such custom and that neither did the churches of God, in 1 Corinthians 11:16.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
I have never heard such a thing. If a woman is an adult she has no authority over her except God. How on earth would a father or pastor have authority over an adult woman? Such unbiblical nonsense! JBF, based on your posts and rude responses, I cannot believe that you are a Christian who follow the teachings of Scripture--false teachers are those who begin to make up their own doctrines.

"28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them."--Acts 28-30
I am not distorting the truth; but you dishonour me because you cannot hear the word that I am speaking to you.

A woman is to have authority on her head because of the angels, in the form of long hair or some other kind of covering that denotes the authority over her of the men in that church. This is what the scriptures plainly teach in 1 Corinthians 11.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,682
29,024
113
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. Are we under the law??? Paul also said that in Christ there is neither male nor female, and that a woman's hair is given to her for a covering.



 
S

SophieT

Guest
I have admitted to having made judgments about certain people. And you are certainly not making a judgment concerning me, in the post that I am now responding to...

My sins are underneath the blood.
you really have ensnared yourself in your own self righteousness
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
No, Paul said that they had no such custom and that neither did the churches of God, in 1 Corinthians 11:16.

Operative word being CUSTOM--exactly! I also know of no Christians who currently are meeting in Jewish Synagogues.

We need to use common sense when reading scriptures--to differentiate between customs and commands.


"[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."--Matthew 22: 36-39

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."--1st Corinthians 13:1
 
S

SophieT

Guest
there is a true dichotomy between flesh and spirit (Galatians 5:16).



See Galatians 5:16. And Galatians 2:20 is of course referring to the whole of our behaviour; not just what is happening in our spirit.



No, I do not believe with the gnostics that we are not sinning with our spirit when we sin with the flesh. If we sin with the flesh we are sinning also with the spirit.



I am saying that in me (that is, in my flesh) there dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18)...and that if I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (not my spirit; but the Spirit of God dwelling in me), that the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).



The redemption of the body has to do with the fact that the element of sin is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14)..

For the flesh is irredeemable...it is utterly sinful to the day of our death. Therefore the only redemption that is offered to the flesh is in its crucifixion.
I said it seems like the beginnings of gnosticisim

funny how that repeats itself

the rest of your post is just you talking to yourself
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
I am not distorting the truth; but you dishonour me because you cannot hear the word that I am speaking to you.

A woman is to have authority on her head because of the angels, in the form of long hair or some other kind of covering that denotes the authority over her of the men in that church. This is what the scriptures plainly teach in 1 Corinthians 11.

How can I dishonor you? You say I cannot hear you--you are not Jesus are you? Who speaks this way?

"But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”
--John 10:5
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Okay, I can see where someone might think that I am judging their heart by such a statement.

When in reality, all I am doing is stating my belief about those who reject the kjv for what it says in other translations.

So, that it is not a judgment on any individual (or a pointing of the finger).

It is a basic statement about a certain type of person, that generally people of that type are of that type for a specific reason.

Any other examples?
you lie

I believe that in doing so you reveal yourself as being one of whom Paul prophesied about in 2 Timothy 4:3.
you lie consistently and think no one sees. perhaps it is yourself that Paul is talking to?
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Those were not comments about a type of person; they were comments about me personally.

Here's another directed at me in the Entire Sanctification thread:



Here's another gem, directed at PostHuman in the Wet Paint thread:



Another from the same thread, to me:



And these, to Absolutely in the Understanding the Trinity thread:





I recall others but can't locate them just now. I've posted enough to prove the point.

IMO, these are actually report worthy

he consistently challenges the authenticity of the claim of Christianity in other believers and then denies he did so

I don't think the TOS allows for that
 
S

SophieT

Guest
The relationship of women to men is; as well as the authority of men over women.

If a woman is not married, the authority that is over her would be her father; another option might be the pastor; who biblically should always be a male.
saying a pastor is the head of an unmarried or widowed woman is begging for abuse

but I'm not surprised you would take it in that direction