A Double Standard in Christianity?

[JohnDB]

These are extremely weak rationalizations for not following God's Word. All these ridiculous arguments have already been disproven many times. So, once again, I present Paul's very sober, thoughtful instructions to Timothy that are also meant for us today.

A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet. 1 Timothy 2:11-12

These are basic context questions. There's a reason why he says what he says to Timothy in this personal letter.

I don't discount any part of scripture...I use a very meticulous method for every premise of scripture...counting every single word precious. Time, place of writing, anthropology, history, geography, and relationship between the author and recipient all are extremely relevant when reading their correspondence.

Not even going to be so bold as to rewrite God's word or cut out sections because I have a theology to promote. Far from it...I personally think that scripture is a bonafide miracle... something unique and Holy. Not something to handle with complete disregard and callousness of ignoring words and their meanings. Too much blood of God's favorite people has been spilled to protect these words so we can have them today....and we just got finished with All Saints Day too.

I have a very healthy respect, fear, and admiration for scriptures...every word is precious.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Because I didn't capitalize the "j" in "just"?
Before you make assumptions you should look at the about in someone's profile.

And I do take this as an insult.

If I actually were a woman, it would not be an insult for you to think I am a woman.

But because I am a man, I think that you have crossed the line here over into un-Christian behaviour.

The NASB has been corrupted; I can prove from it that Jesus is satan, as I have said.

 

[proverbs35]

Oh and I forgot to say that Ruth --the 'Moabitess' (also a Jewish proselyte) had gone out into the field (unaware it was Naomi's near kinsman) to work to support her and her mother in-law. Boaz was obviously impressed with her--both her work initiative and her faith! Ps And she boldly followed Naomi's instruction--that took guts to go to the threshing floor and then to ask Boaz to marry her. pps not suggesting this last bit--i'm sure there a deeper meaning behind this story....

Yes. There are more notable women in the OT. There are plenty of notable women in the NT too.

This would make a great thread topic.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

So changing the word "husband" to suit your sensibilities. You should read up on 2 Peter 3:16.

You have enough discernment to know abominations? I doubt that. But consider this, when you have a 100% correlation between effect A and effect B, without knowing what is the cause and effect, would siding with A be supporting B? Look up mainline churches, woman pastors, homosexual marriage.

There is no need for further responses. I think I have learned all need from you. I leave you with the last words.

Note to self. Anyone saying 1 Tim 3:2 says "husband" as "spouse" in NASB is a liar.

 

[Dino246]

Note to self. Anyone saying 1 Tim 3:2 says "husband" as "spouse" in NASB is a liar.
View attachment 232769

You are clearly implying that I’m a liar, but your accusation is incoherent, as I did not use the word, “spouse”. Perhaps you’d care to explain.

 

[SophieT]

Sorry, the whole, "you took this out of context," argument is a bit tired. Also, I would expect that from an atheist, not a born-again believer in Christ.

When God spoke in Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before me," you don't need to read the entire book of Exodus to figure out what that means.

Neither do you have to read the entire book of John to figure this verse out:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16.

1Timothy 2:11-12 stands alone and does not need "context." I understand that the militant feminists of our day hate this scripture, which is keeping most of them from following the Lord. And unfortunately, many pastors and preachers are capitulating by explaining away or apologizing for the Word of God. It's shameful.

Just because something is difficult to understand, such as the trinity or predestination, does not mean it isn't there. I assure you, it is all there, in black and white. I just don't see 1 Timothy 2:11-12 as being all that hard to understand.

SteveEpperson said:
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

BUT

following is all in the NT, the early church as it is commonly called. this is in the Bible, no one is making it up. I guess you either believe what is written or you deny what is plainly written. it's your choice.


Paul greets Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon of the church and Junia, whom Paul addresses as prominent among the Apostles

Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher along with her husband, Aquila in Acts 18. 26 in fact, Priscilla corrected Paul...and Paul took it

The four daughters of Philip are spoken of as exercising the gift of prophecy in the same verse, Acts 18

In Acts 18:26, Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher, along with her husband Aquila

the four daughters of Philip in Acts 21:9, exercised the gift of prophecy or inspired speech. and they were not married

this is all in the New Testament, so all excuses or opinions stating that women should always be silent are obviously missing something

so Steve, tell us all about how you igore the above SCRIPTURE because you PREFER to treat as less than equal in Christ and make things worse by insulting them by smearing them with the lie they must be a feminist. Jesus set women free from men like you

 

[SophieT]

I have never seen so many false accusations of 'liar' by at least 3 people in this thread

it seems they have a limited vocabulary

 

[SteveEpperson]

Time, place of writing, anthropology, history, geography, and relationship between the author and recipient all are extremely relevant when reading their correspondence.

No, actually, they are not. What's relevant is that all scripture comes from the mouth of God. Nothing else matters.

Not even going to be so bold as to rewrite God's word or cut out sections because I have a theology to promote.

I appreciate that since we already have too many cults that have butchered the Word of God. Make no mistake, they will pay for this transgression.

 

[SteveEpperson]

SteveEpperson said:
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

Wrong!

God said:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

All of these weak arguments you point to have already been discounted millions of times by smarter people than myself. I could spend time doing that, also. However, I don't think I have it to give.

Personally, I don't think it will matter anyway. I think you have already made up your mind.

It's similar to the JWs hoping that God will change His mind about being a triune God. Or the way the LGBTQ community falsely believes that God will change his mind about homosexuality. He is not going to change his mind about this, either.

I'm not willing to go down this rabbit hole with you. Instead, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm assuming we can still agree on the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[JohnDB]

No, actually, they are not. What's relevant is that all scripture comes from the mouth of God. Nothing else matters.



I appreciate that since we already have too many cults that have butchered the Word of God. Make no mistake, they will pay for this transgression.

Ok...if this was a letter between Bob and Frank it wouldn't be scripture...

But since it isn't, the Who, what, when, where, why, and how is relevant. (Obvious as it is scripture)
But the reason it's scripture is also always relevant. Of course it's inspired by God writing....that's why we look so closely and carefully at each and every word.
And also because of the expense of paper and ink the writing style is different....not in just language but their self imposed limited use of it. "Of course" material considered "common knowledge" was left unwritten...but today 2,000 years later the "common knowledge" of then isn't exactly so common knowledge today.

So it needs to be discussed and explained.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Ok...if this was a letter between Bob and Frank it wouldn't be scripture...

No, but since 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is in the Holy Bible, which is the inerrant Word of God, it is. So either you believe what's in it, or you don't.

So it needs to be discussed and explained.

No, it needs to be followed for a change.

 

[SophieT]

Wrong!

God said:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

All of these weak arguments you point to have already been discounted millions of times by smarter people than myself. I could spend time doing that, also. However, I don't think I have it to give.

Personally, I don't think it will matter anyway. I think you have already made up your mind.

It's similar to the JWs hoping that God will change His mind about being a triune God. Or the way the LGBTQ community falsely believes that God will change his mind about homosexuality. He is not going to change his mind about this, either.

I'm not willing to go down this rabbit hole with you. Instead, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm assuming we can still agree on the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

yes, you are assuming

and ignoring all scripture that has been posted quite a few times by myself and others, that fully illustrate the fact that women can and do participate in a gathering of believers

you bring up nonsense that has nothing to do with anything stated.

the only rabbit hole, is the one you disappear down every time you are shown how women DID participate male believers in worship and so on

and like everyone else before you, you now decide not to address me anymore because you cannot refute scripture that clearly indicates your error.

blind leading the blind

 

[JohnDB]

No, but since 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is in the Holy Bible, which is the inerrant Word of God, it is. So either you believe what's in it, or you don't.



No, it needs to be followed for a change.

So...by what you just stated, we should be executing anyone who breaks the Sabbath?

 

[SophieT]

so Steve says the following is wrong. he refuses to address the fact that women were not and do not have to be silent at all times in all churches.

yes, Steve has decided these verses (and many others) do not belong in his Bible, so maybe Steve should just talk to the menfolk


Paul greets Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon of the church and Junia, whom Paul addresses as prominent among the Apostles

Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher along with her husband, Aquila in Acts 18. 26 in fact, Priscilla corrected Apollos.

The four daughters of Philip are spoken of as exercising the gift of prophecy in the same verse, Acts 18

In Acts 18:26, Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher, along with her husband Aquila

the four daughters of Philip in Acts 21:9, exercised the gift of prophecy or inspired speech. and they were not married

this is all in the New Testament, so all excuses or opinions stating that women should always be silent are obviously missing something

 

[Magenta]

But because I am a man, I think that you have crossed the line here over into un-Christian behaviour.

How is admitting one was wrong about something un-Christian behavior???

Since you are a man, I think that men have a vested interest in the issue and
therefore a reason to reject the truth of the matter as being not of the Holy Spirit.

... i think that the woman has a vested interest in the issue and therefore
a reason to reject the truth of the matter as being not of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JohnDB]

Since you are a man, I think that men have a vested interest in the issue and
therefore a reason to reject the truth of the matter as being not of the Holy Spirit.

Oh how the world would be different if we still lived in a caste based society where women would be considered one HALF STEP above property....

Very different indeed....

At least I wouldn't have to watch anymore of those "women empowerment" movies...

 

[justbyfaith]

No, you can’t, as I have made clear to you. You are stubbornly unteachable.

I can; but I would rather not do so.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm trying but you refuse to consider every word precious.
And when you discount scriptures, basically erasing them from the Bible, then your premise of "certain bibles are corrupt" is ludicrous and you are creating a religion based on your own notions instead of what the Bible really says.

This is a debatable discussion...
It's a long standing method of reading the Bible called the inductive method.

Getting the most out of every word we have.
The questions I originally asked are basic context questions about these people who were being discussed....and the sources which you think are accurate for some very illogical and probably ridiculous reasons.

This isn't being argumentative...this is exactly where you have gone wrong. You need to repent for discounting and disregarding God's word. Basically doing a hatchet job on scriptures cutting out what you want so it will say what you think it should say....placing yourself above God.

Simply show in God's word where it says that Apollos was a Hellenistic Jew.

If you are correct on the matter, providing the evidence can't be too hard.

If the Bible "really says" that Apollos was a Hellenistic Jew, then you should be able to show that by quoting the verse where it says that.

I'm also uncertain as to what is your vested interest in having Apollos not be the author of Hebrews.

Because if you have no vested interest in the matter, why keep arguing the point?

Because the issue is highly peripheral and has no bearing on the discussion at hand.

 

[justbyfaith]

How is admitting one was wrong about something un-Christian behavior???

Since you are a man, I think that men have a vested interest in the issue and
therefore a reason to reject the truth of the matter as being not of the Holy Spirit.

Except that what the Holy Spirit has said in holy scripture, is something that is more likely to be rejected by women who are of the feminist persuasion.

 

[justbyfaith]

so Steve says the following is wrong. he refuses to address the fact that women were not and do not have to be silent at all times in all churches.

yes, Steve has decided these verses (and many others) do not belong in his Bible, so maybe Steve should just talk to the menfolk


Paul greets Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon of the church and Junia, whom Paul addresses as prominent among the Apostles

Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher along with her husband, Aquila in Acts 18. 26 in fact, Priscilla corrected Apollos.

The four daughters of Philip are spoken of as exercising the gift of prophecy in the same verse, Acts 18

In Acts 18:26, Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher, along with her husband Aquila

the four daughters of Philip in Acts 21:9, exercised the gift of prophecy or inspired speech. and they were not married

this is all in the New Testament, so all excuses or opinions stating that women should always be silent are obviously missing something

Aquila was Priscilla's covering that I have spoken of.

And Philip's four daughters did not prophesy in a church setting; or, if they did, they did so with a covering on their head (1 Corinthians 11:1-16).