A Double Standard in Christianity?

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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven."

"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."

The first time a woman acted without the covering of her husband the fate of the human race was changed. This is why covering is important "because of the angels". These angels are the fallen angels, not the ones who serve the house of God. These angels will leverage the history of a certain woman against a woman who prophesies with her head uncovered. When a man gives way for the woman to prophesy, the outcome is then the responsibility of the man.


woman wasn’t subject to her husband when that happened though women being subject to thier husband is part of the curse of sin

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a man and his wife become one in Gods eyes

Before sin

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no Adam ruling over Eve yet that only came in here

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:12, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a direct result of sin. Adam wasn’t meant to “ cover “ Eve they were both made in Gods image before sin and to Adam came the curse of death

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, ( just as she heartened to the serpents voice ) and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,

Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because eves subjection is a result of sin , when sin is remitted this happens taking us back to before sin

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that goes for women and men if they are baptized we have to let go of the flesh and curse of sin and it’s results like women being subject to men that’s part of the curse in Christ however women and men have died to the law already for thier sins in the body of Christ , so just as the rest of the curse is removed in baptism so is the subjugation of women to men also being born of sin

Paul seems to blame Eve but clearly God puts everything on Adam because he was first created and Adam and Eve were one at the time being called Adam

only after transgression was Eve named seperately and made subject to him

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we get baptized into Christ it’s the beginning of our new creation in his name because going under the water by faith is our death for sin , being raised up from the burial under water is our new birth to God as a new creature not under the prior condemnation or curse make or female this is true for single , married , male , female ect

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-18‬ ‭


The gospel is about sin being remitted and with it sins curse on mankind. I think if our is read carefully you can see his latter epistles evolved as he grew in Christ like we all do .

he was a former Pharisee and they were very Old Testament regarding everything including women I personally feel as is he had a bit of left over prejudice like Peter did also against Gentiles . And in his latter epistles he came into a better understanding

Which would be in his latter epistles that male and female have no distinction in Christ we’re not in the flesh anymore but born of the spirit . So we shouldn’t live under the same curses of the flesh. Christ took them away.

This of course being applied biblically not literally. Of course men and women have different roles and the value of a women’s roles in a marriage and men’s roles in a marriage of course order of some kind is necassary

I think that when people hear the phrase “ a woman must obey her husband “ or “ the man is the head of the women “ because we don’t have a solid foundation in scriptire , we take those types of things seperately from what’s being communicated

I think once we get into the spirit things of the flesh and old covenant become irrelevant because they are about the flesh
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
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How do the elders function in your circle?

The older females are to teach the younger females, are they not? Their instructions aren't arbitrary, they teach what they know. The same with the younger males. The older males teach what they know. How does a wife learn to submit to her husband? It should be by her own father, an elder. How does a man learn to submit to Christ? It should be through his experience with his own father. When he is married, he will learn that as his wife submits to him. The body of Christ is alive and organic when each does their part for the benefit of the whole.
And if the young woman’s or young man’s father is not an elder? Or even a Christian? Then what?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
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That is like giving the Nazirites wine to drink...
If you refuse to admit your error without seeing the evidence, and refuse to look for the evidence, you are only acting like the proverbial fool.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
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woman wasn’t subject to her husband when that happened though women being subject to thier husband is part of the curse of sin

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a man and his wife become one in Gods eyes

Before sin

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no Adam ruling over Eve yet that only came in here

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:12, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a direct result of sin. Adam wasn’t meant to “ cover “ Eve they were both made in Gods image before sin and to Adam came the curse of death

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, ( just as she heartened to the serpents voice ) and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,

Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because eves subjection is a result of sin , when sin is remitted this happens taking us back to before sin

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that goes for women and men if they are baptized we have to let go of the flesh and curse of sin and it’s results like women being subject to men that’s part of the curse in Christ however women and men have died to the law already for thier sins in the body of Christ , so just as the rest of the curse is removed in baptism so is the subjugation of women to men also being born of sin

Paul seems to blame Eve but clearly God puts everything on Adam because he was first created and Adam and Eve were one at the time being called Adam

only after transgression was Eve named seperately and made subject to him

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we get baptized into Christ it’s the beginning of our new creation in his name because going under the water by faith is our death for sin , being raised up from the burial under water is our new birth to God as a new creature not under the prior condemnation or curse make or female this is true for single , married , male , female ect

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-18‬ ‭


The gospel is about sin being remitted and with it sins curse on mankind. I think if our is read carefully you can see his latter epistles evolved as he grew in Christ like we all do .

he was a former Pharisee and they were very Old Testament regarding everything including women I personally feel as is he had a bit of left over prejudice like Peter did also against Gentiles . And in his latter epistles he came into a better understanding

Which would be in his latter epistles that male and female have no distinction in Christ we’re not in the flesh anymore but born of the spirit . So we shouldn’t live under the same curses of the flesh. Christ took them away.

This of course being applied biblically not literally. Of course men and women have different roles and the value of a women’s roles in a marriage and men’s roles in a marriage of course order of some kind is necassary

I think that when people hear the phrase “ a woman must obey her husband “ or “ the man is the head of the women “ because we don’t have a solid foundation in scriptire , we take those types of things seperately from what’s being communicated

I think once we get into the spirit things of the flesh and old covenant become irrelevant because they are about the flesh
This is true according to standing before God but not according to function on the earth. Saying there is no male or female does not mean the male occasionally gives birth during conception, for example. There is no distinction when it comes to Christ but there is a distinction when it comes to the flesh, which is passing away.

"Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life."

The reality of being in Christ, while true, has limits because of the our flesh. Our eternal house is in heaven, our eternal body. Until then our flesh groans under our burdens. e.g. Even though the pain of child-bearing was given because of sin, the pain is not abated when we are in Christ. On earth, we have marriage. In heaven, there is no marriage. But marriage is not diminished because it is not eternal. There are clear guidelines for men and women while on the earth and it puts on display Christ's love of the church. Clothes, for example, were created because of sin but going without clothes is not God's plan.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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And if the young woman’s or young man’s father is not an elder? Or even a Christian? Then what?
God is continuing to reconcile men to Himself. In a completely reconciled existence the natural fathers would also be the elders. In the absence of one, another elder would step up.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Since God didn't mandate female prophets be working under men in the OT, I see no need to do so without scripture evidence in the NT.
Acts 2 plainly says daughters & handmaidens would minister prophecy by the Holy Spirit, so we need to understand that ANY prophetic utterance that's Spirit led is allowable, including teaching & preaching.
Many can say women shouldn't preach, but they can't use absolute, correct scripture to back their claims.
The best anyone can do is abuse the scriptures about husband/wife relationships to negate them. This is a very sorry excuse when some of our best scripture handlers on CC will flimsily squeeze out a single verse out of context to prove their point.
Using terrible TV preachers as examples when most of them are men hardly proves the point either.
done often
 
S

SophieT

Guest
And if the young woman’s or young man’s father is not an elder? Or even a Christian? Then what?
you will never get an answer that covers that from anyone who thinks women are 2nd class citizens (while saying we are not second class citizens)

so the answer is simply: well tough then...women should always curtsy and avert their eyes when around men
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Not in a church setting.

There were certain protocols for propriety in worship that were set in place; and also established in the eternal word of the Lord.
there were no 'churches' back then

David did not think much of propriety in worship, so I guess he's out :cautious:

God seemed to be pleased tho....
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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I should also add that the heavens and the earth are designed to display the truth of God. Any order in the earth should reflect what is true about the Living God. God showed us the initial picture of how a woman was once resident in a man but was taken out of the man and made to be a separate entity. If the woman may be taken out of the man, then the woman may be included in the man. In the first case it is a physical impossibility to put the bride into a physical man but that was never the intention. The intention was to use the natural to show us how the spiritual works. So everything in creation is like that. When God created a man, God was not just creating a male, He was creating some figure in creation to represent certain particular things about God. When God was creating a woman, God was creating a being who in creation would represent certain particular things about God. But when each one stood up in the thing God made him or her to represent, they were transformed from being merely physical beings, into representations of spiritual truths. So, He made one one way and He made one another way to put on display truths of His nature and His culture, the Kingdom.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Scripture doesn't really mean what it says when we read it in the English, is your contention.

I believe that God gave His unadulterated message to the common people; and have made my case for this in other places on these boards.

bust a gut laughing cause this is how it is really meant
 
S

SophieT

Guest
I should also add that the heavens and the earth are designed to display the truth of God. Any order in the earth should reflect what is true about the Living God. God showed us the initial picture of how a woman was once resident in a man but was taken out of the man and made to be a separate entity. If the woman may be taken out of the man, then the woman may be included in the man. In the first case it is a physical impossibility to put the bride into a physical man but that was never the intention. The intention was to use the natural to show us how the spiritual works. So everything in creation is like that. When God created a man, God was not just creating a male, He was creating some figure in creation to represent certain particular things about God. When God was creating a woman, God was creating a being who in creation would represent certain particular things about God. But when each one stood up in the thing God made him or her to represent, they were transformed from being merely physical beings, into representations of spiritual truths. So, He made one one way and He made one another way to put on display truths of His nature and His culture, the Kingdom.
yeah...heard this one before but I do not agree with it. sounds pretty iffy

all sexes are resident in a man if you want to look at it that way, since the man determines the sex of the baby conceived

(sorry...not picking on you...even though with 2 threads wherein we are not quite agreeing, it might seem so)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
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God is continuing to reconcile men to Himself. In a completely reconciled existence the natural fathers would also be the elders. In the absence of one, another elder would step up.
Not all men are elders in any church. Even where all men may meet the qualifications, there is no need for all to be elders.

You're grasping at straws. There simply is no "covering" of unmarried adult Christian females described in Scripture. They are full members of the body, with full privilege of participation.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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yeah...heard this one before but I do not agree with it. sounds pretty iffy

all sexes are resident in a man if you want to look at it that way, since the man determines the sex of the baby conceived

(sorry...not picking on you...even though with 2 threads wherein we are not quite agreeing, it might seem so)
"Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God..."
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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Not all men are elders in any church. Even where all men may meet the qualifications, there is no need for all to be elders.

You're grasping at straws. There simply is no "covering" of unmarried adult Christian females described in Scripture. They are full members of the body, with full privilege of participation.
I can only share what I know and live.

How do the elders function in your circle?

Also, are they elected or chosen by apostles or...?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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God is the head of Christ
Christ is the Head of man
Man is the head of woman

satanism is to turn things upside down and backwards

Thus the serpent went to Eve first.............nothing has changed except the ability thru Christ to be Overcomers = both man and woman.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
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I can only share what I know and live.

How do the elders function in your circle?

Also, are they elected or chosen by apostles or...?
Chosen by standing elders, and affirmed (or, in rare cases, not) by members.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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If you refuse to admit your error without seeing the evidence, and refuse to look for the evidence, you are only acting like the proverbial fool.
There is not any error on my part (unless you want to point it out in a post that will be forward and not backward); and in calling me a fool you are in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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there were no 'churches' back then

David did not think much of propriety in worship, so I guess he's out :cautious:

God seemed to be pleased tho....
I had to correct my post and say that it is concerning the New Testament.

There are in fact protocols for propriety in worship in the New Testament.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
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God is the head of Christ
Christ is the Head of man
Man is the head of woman
Most translations indicate that the context of the third statement (actually, second, in the text) is marriage. "The man is the head of the woman" or something similar.