A empowered and working grace

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#41
Do you think you can renew your own mind? Good luck with that. :)
Romans 12:2 [Full Chapter]
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Ephesians 4:22-24

[SUP]22 [/SUP]that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#42
Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.


Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Unless you are the Creator God, you cannot renew your own mind. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#43
Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him. In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now. It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart. We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the Heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but
from God.


By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you
became obedient from the heart
to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power
through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith
; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us
the Spirit in our hearts as
a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth
the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.


Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them
giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith
.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.


1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction i
s love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who
call on the Lord from a pure heart. (
this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]
but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.


 
Mar 23, 2016
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#44
InSpiritInTruth said:
If by the Spirit of the law in Jesus Christ we are set free from the law of sin and death, then what is the Spirit of the law?
Please note the terminology used in Rom 8:2 – for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

It is not the "Spirit of the law". It is the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". Without the "in Christ Jesus" we are not freed from the law of sin and death. And Rom 8:3 explains why.



InSpiritInTruth said:
And if by the law of faith we are saved, and not by our own works of the law, then what is the law of faith?
Read the next verse for the conclusion of the line of reasoning: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.



InSpiritInTruth said:
If the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, then what is the righteousness of the law?
There is no righteousness of the law apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. His righteousness is attributed to the believer who abides in Him. That is why Rom 8:1 says there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The Lord Jesus Christ is where righteousness is found.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#45

There is no righteousness of the law apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. His righteousness is attributed to the believer who abides in Him. That is why Rom 8:1 says there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The Lord Jesus Christ is where righteousness is found.
Yes, this is what I said---->>>>
If by the Spirit of the law in Jesus Christ we are set free from the law of sin and death, then what is the Spirit of the law? And if by the law of faith we are saved, and not by our own works of the law, then what is the law of faith? If the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, then what is the righteousness of the law?

And if all these things are given to us, then it is no more of our own works of the law, but God's who works in us. So what do all these things have in common, and how is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us? It is fulfilled in us by LOVE. Love is the Spirit of the law, the law of faith is based on Love, and Love fulfills the righteousness of the law.

But it is not our Spirit, or our faith, or our own righteous, or even our own Love. But it is the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

John 17:26
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Some people have trouble reading the small print. :)

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#46
Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.


Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Unless you are the Creator God, you cannot renew your own mind. :)
SO, if you really stop and think about this. unless you are the creator God you can't 'un' renew your mind to lose salvation.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#47
SO, if you really stop and think about this. unless you are the creator God you can't 'un' renew your mind to lose salvation.
But God can, look at what happened to Saul when the Holy Spirit departed from him and he received an evil spirit from God.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#48
Thank God for the New Covenant of the gospel of the grace of Christ.


John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

The Spirit of truth will be with us forever.

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit now that we are in Christ. Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed,
you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


( interesting note about 1 Sam 16:15 - don't forget that we are in a New Covenant now and not the Old Covenant - things are different after the cross of Jesus)

This wasn’t an evil spirit in the sense that it was demonic. This was a godly spirit from the Lord. The word “evil” doesn’t only mean “1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked”; it also means “2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful.” This godly angel was judgment and punishment on Saul for his wickedness. So, in that sense, this was an “evil” angel. It brought God’s harmful and injurious judgment and punishment upon Saul.

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#49
Forgot this piece as it timed out to add to my above post.

It was God’s judgment upon Saul. Things like that will not happen to us as New Testament believers. All of our judgment has been placed on Jesus.

In John 12:32 - all judgment was being put on Jesus.

John 12:31-33 (NASB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

[SUP]33 [/SUP] But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

The word “men” in this verse is italicized, meaning it was added by the translators for clarification, but it is not in the original text. Therefore, this doesn’t necessarily mean Jesus was going to draw all men unto Himself. That is a scriptural truth, but that may not be what this verse is saying. The subject of John 12:31 is the judgment of this world.

Jesus was saying that when He would be crucified, He would draw all of God’s judgment upon sin unto Himself. Indeed, He did bear our judgment so we would never have to be judged.

So John 12:32 wasn’t speaking symbolically about us lifting up Jesus through our lives or preaching. It was saying that when Jesus would be lifted up on the cross and crucified, He would draw all of God’s wrath against sin into His own body on that tree (1 Peter 2:24).


Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

 
Jun 1, 2016
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#50
The grace of God simply means to find favor and acceptance from God. In the NT Greek the word for grace can also be defined as “the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace. And also as..“divine influence upon the heart”…... χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;including gratitude):”

The grace of God given as a gift to an individual but is also demonstrated in power and influence over the one who receives it, as shown in Ephesians 3:7 “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”


So when God’s grace is actively working in a believer by faith, there is an influence upon the heart that is also reflected outwardly in ones words and actions bringing forth good fruit, as shown here in Romans 1:5 “By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”


So though the grace of God is given as a gift to us, and we are chosen and elect and anointed by God, there is an active manifestation of God’s grace working in His elect for the obedience of the faith and for to do, and to work God’s works and will in our lives, by the power of His Spirit working in us and through us.


But there are also many imposters who proclaim themselves to be “in Christ” or born again of God’s Spirit, or “under grace” but truly are not. So is one able to tell the difference between the true and false according to scripture? I believe there is.


First as we saw above in Romans 1:5 the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, so disobedience is a sure sign. It is also written that this faith that is given then establishes the righteousness of the law in us Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 8:4 “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

This is also confirmed under the NT that we have the righteousness of God’s law written on our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16. So we are not “lawless” as some might suggest.


Also another sign of the active power of God’s grace working in a true believer is that sin shall not have dominion over you. Romans 6:14 Meaning you will not go on sinning and serving the lusts and desires of the flesh, but have truly been set free from the bondage of sin in your life by the same power of God’s Spirit of grace.


So we conclude as in Titus 2:11-15 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that,denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”

Peace and God bless.
really good..no great post my brother. learned something from it, thanks for taking the time and handling the word as it deserves here in this op. one quick thought/ edition i think one place that we can see grace and truth in a simple and clear manner is

" neither do I condemn you, now go and leave your life of sin"
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#51
really good..no great post my brother. learned something from it, thanks for taking the time and handling the word as it deserves here in this op. one quick thought/ edition i think one place that we can see grace and truth in a simple and clear manner is

" neither do I condemn you, now go and leave your life of sin"
Do you think after all this she returned to her sin?

No one can convince me a person who was spared stoning (which was rightly according to the law what she deserved) and had her life spared would go back to why she was there to begin with..

Thats the power of grace.. Something ISIT seems to want to preach, But does not want to fully grasp and have faith in.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#52
really good..no great post my brother. learned something from it, thanks for taking the time and handling the word as it deserves here in this op. one quick thought/ edition i think one place that we can see grace and truth in a simple and clear manner is

" neither do I condemn you, now go and leave your life of sin"
Good evening Jason peace to you

Jesus also said "sin no more" to this man here also

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jesus adds, "lest a worst thing come unto thee" there.

Whereas here it speaks of having escaped the pollutions of the world itself through the knowledge of our Lord Jesis and are again entangled therein and here it speaks of their latter end is worse with them then the beginning

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

As it speaks of them turning from the holy commandment according to the proverb

2Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Making a reference to that which was washed

As the above speaks of the world in that manner (having escaped but being again entangled), Paul speaks of Demas mentioned in the epistle of Colossians also having forsaken Paul loving the present world

2 Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica

Whereas John says,

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Paul having worded it that way (forsaken) and having loved the world. Could be understood to be as one washed but the love of the Father was not in him (going out from Paul as he did).

A few to consider, Its very probably these will be met with a post with reasons why these also arent relevant for us.

But then again the woman caught in adultery is also said not to be in the earliest manuscripts from what I understand

So in one place it shows our Lord does not condemn telling her to go and to sin no more, and here it says

Heb 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge

And Paul mentions in Corinthians what was commly reported among them (fornication) in the first letter and in the second he

2 Cr 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

He gave them space just as our Lord gave space for the kind in Rev 2:21, elsewhere it shows not all repent of fornication and the like such as in Rev 9:21

Just wanted to add that

God bless you Jason Im burning the midnight oil with you (heading off to bed in a few) Peace Bro
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#53
SO, if you really stop and think about this. unless you are the creator God you can't 'un' renew your mind to lose salvation.

Would that be the same as being given over to a reprobate mind (in the sense you mean "un" renewed mind) I mean?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#54
Good evening Jason peace to you

Jesus also said "sin no more" to this man here also

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jesus adds, "lest a worst thing come unto thee" there.

Whereas here it speaks of having escaped the pollutions of the world itself through the knowledge of our Lord Jesis and are again entangled therein and here it speaks of their latter end is worse with them then the beginning

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

As it speaks of them turning from the holy commandment according to the proverb

2Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Making a reference to that which was washed

As the above speaks of the world in that manner (having escaped but being again entangled), Paul speaks of Demas mentioned in the epistle of Colossians also having forsaken Paul loving the present world

2 Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica

Whereas John says,

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Paul having worded it that way (forsaken) and having loved the world. Could be understood to be as one washed but the love of the Father was not in him (going out from Paul as he did).

A few to consider, Its very probably these will be met with a post with reasons why these also arent relevant for us.

But then again the woman caught in adultery is also said not to be in the earliest manuscripts from what I understand

So in one place it shows our Lord does not condemn telling her to go and to sin no more, and here it says

Heb 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge

And Paul mentions in Corinthians what was commly reported among them (fornication) in the first letter and in the second he

2 Cr 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

He gave them space just as our Lord gave space for the kind in Rev 2:21, elsewhere it shows not all repent of fornication and the like such as in Rev 9:21

Just wanted to add that

God bless you Jason Im burning the midnight oil with you (heading off to bed in a few) Peace Bro
peace to you also sista, always appreciate the design of your posts,always are based on sound scriptures not just one here or there, but that the subject and train of thought remains solid. i thought of that scripture " go and stop sinning or something worse may happen " and was hoping someone would mention it. i find it interesting that Jesus stooped doen and wrote with His finger at this point, given that God wrote the commandments with His finger (exodus 31:18 ) i find it relevant and interesting in thought, because this is a point where Jesus did not follow the mosaic Law that says this "'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death. (lev. 20:10 )

people have asked before "what i thought Jesus wrote" to me, i think again it shows that He was not teaching the law of moses, but perfecting it according to mercy. its interesting that He stooped and wrote first, and then gave them a reason to not follow the letter which would be to stone the woman, ( and another thing wheres the man lol another subject tho) i used to look at it as Jesus didnt follow that law, but i see another reflection that He was giving the new covenant Law, because God gave " the Law of the covenenant by writing it with His finger on mount sinai . and here Jesus adds mercy to the new by writing on the ground with His finger. and of course we know that through the spirit, Gods laws are written on our hearts, im assuming with His finger :) just an interesting though process.

as far as a forgiven adulterer, i am one and i know myself to have once been swine who returned to the old ways and then i found the gospel and its truth now for years lust is no longer a problem doesnt even enter into my mind anymore because i finally began taking Jesus word for the truth, and follwed His design. i know what freedom is, from Lust, violence, greed, the party life acohol and more things than that things that controlled my life until i trusted His gospel, so i can testify that we are never too lost, never too filthy if only we will turn and repent and offer our hearts and lives to He who is able to make us new men and women, and things of old are truly " as if they have been cast into the deepest sea, never to be remembered again" of course, we guard our eyes and ears so as to not allow the corruption back in through the mind and heart, but things before i could not free myself from, His way........WORKS and when He makes us free, free we are indeed :)


i ramble you know me :) Goid bless and keep you and may you rest in His Loving embrace far from worry. ill be leaving day after tomorrow and as ALWAYS i so appreciate you and often you point in a direction for study :) a blessing sister Kim
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#55
But God can, look at what happened to Saul when the Holy Spirit departed from him and he received an evil spirit from God.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
Also notice that evil is evil (look at the numbers in the two verses for evil below)

1 Samual 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil [SUP]H7451[/SUP] spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil [SUP]H7451[/SUP]good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Grace777x70 appears to be doing what Isaiah is saying "Woe to them" who do thatthere (as it is the same word evil [SUP]H7451 [/SUP])

Same word is used for evil (not godly) angels also

Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil [SUP]H7451[/SUP]angels among them.

Just as god send a lying spirit in 1 Kings 2:23, that isnt the Spirit of truth but a lie, as there is evil and good and truth and lies, the verse which tells us its evil doesnt need man to tell us evil is good, or godly, there is a woe there to those who do that, and I wouldnt go there to twist that
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#56
Understand that Saul never said "I'm, sorry, please forgive me" How many times did David ask for forgiveness? Also, Adam never asked for forgiveness.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
Understand that Saul never said "I'm, sorry, please forgive me" How many times did David ask for forgiveness? Also, Adam never asked for forgiveness.

The tax collector did not either come to think of it, He just got on his knees, and begged for God to show mercy on him.

And jesus said this man went home justified..
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#58

The tax collector did not either come to think of it, He just got on his knees, and begged for God to show mercy on him.

And jesus said this man went home justified..

The answer is and will always will be Christ and him Crucified. Not works, not law, not fasting, not blowing a shofar, Not a prayer shawl, not speaking in Hebrew, not attending church, not handing out water bottles, not even preaching the Gospel. But only by faith in the work of the Cross.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#59
peace to you also sista, always appreciate the design of your posts,always are based on sound scriptures not just one here or there, but that the subject and train of thought remains solid. i thought of that scripture " go and stop sinning or something worse may happen " and was hoping someone would mention it. i find it interesting that Jesus stooped doen and wrote with His finger at this point, given that God wrote the commandments with His finger (exodus 31:18 ) i find it relevant and interesting in thought, because this is a point where Jesus did not follow the mosaic Law that says this "'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death. (lev. 20:10 )

people have asked before "what i thought Jesus wrote" to me, i think again it shows that He was not teaching the law of moses, but perfecting it according to mercy. its interesting that He stooped and wrote first, and then gave them a reason to not follow the letter which would be to stone the woman, ( and another thing wheres the man lol another subject tho) i used to look at it as Jesus didnt follow that law, but i see another reflection that He was giving the new covenant Law, because God gave " the Law of the covenenant by writing it with His finger on mount sinai . and here Jesus adds mercy to the new by writing on the ground with His finger. and of course we know that through the spirit, Gods laws are written on our hearts, im assuming with His finger :) just an interesting though process.

as far as a forgiven adulterer, i am one and i know myself to have once been swine who returned to the old ways and then i found the gospel and its truth now for years lust is no longer a problem doesnt even enter into my mind anymore because i finally began taking Jesus word for the truth, and follwed His design. i know what freedom is, from Lust, violence, greed, the party life acohol and more things than that things that controlled my life until i trusted His gospel, so i can testify that we are never too lost, never too filthy if only we will turn and repent and offer our hearts and lives to He who is able to make us new men and women, and things of old are truly " as if they have been cast into the deepest sea, never to be remembered again" of course, we guard our eyes and ears so as to not allow the corruption back in through the mind and heart, but things before i could not free myself from, His way........WORKS and when He makes us free, free we are indeed :)


i ramble you know me :) Goid bless and keep you and may you rest in His Loving embrace far from worry. ill be leaving day after tomorrow and as ALWAYS i so appreciate you and often you point in a direction for study :) a blessing sister Kim
You can ramble anytime, I will miss you and your ramblings Bro, you are always a breath of fresh air around here. I hope you are not away too long (for my part) but on your part be blessed in the Lord in this thing! Good on you.

And yeah see, I dont know there because they say that part is not in the earliest manucripts and I have looked at and worked something out there, but knowing that and being iffy on a part I always say I am not convinced on this next thing.

For my part (if I receive it) which is seems to fit but I have had trouble recconciling that finger thing there (as perfectly as I would like to, and because you can look at that as "the finger of God" in the picture as shown in Christ who say if I by the finger of God cast out devils the Kingdom of God has come upon you. And I thought the picture was interesting too because he makes as if he doesnt hear them stooping first then he "lifts himself up" to stoop back down again. And so writing between (both before and after) and its like the ground can be a picture of the hearts and minds (as far accusing and excusing goes) as it pertains to the law in ones conscience but that is linked to the Gentiles (in that comaprison) so I am sort of iffy on using that part for reasons of the manuscripts (and this comparison) but I was still like, "wow, if I could refine this better and get it to mesh a bit better I would prefer to.

But dont the same look similar to these next verses worked in and through the picture? Seeing when he lifts himself up as even a center point for the cross in that picture (is somewhat what I was hoping to catch and show better is all)

Start here

John 8:5 Now Moses in the law """commanded us""" that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he **lifted himself up**, and said unto them,he that is without sin **among you**, let him first cast a stone at her. (are we better then they?)

John 8:8
And again he **stooped down**, and wrote on the ground.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them;


John 8:9 And they which **heard it**, being convicted of their own conscience,
went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

See it?

Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing orelse excusing one another)

Accusing and excusing the law written in their hearts (as it speaks of the ground of our hearts) they went out one by one

Or like earlier here

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.


John 8:7 So when they continued asking him,
he lifted himself up, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

As he says here....

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

But so does this to a degree

John 8:9
And they which **heard it**, being convicted of their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

As he stooped the second time (to write) they "heard it" and the conscience comes in and so does the excusing while accusing, which seems to fit, but I see it more with the Gentiles but fits there too

So as I said before I think I need to nix out Romans 2:15 to make it fit more perfectly as they were clearly under the law (saying Moses says, but what do you say which was all tempting him to accuse because thats what they do) So in that particular picture (
Romans 3:19 might fit better). It would seem to be somewhat comparable (or better yet contrasted) with this picture given Jesus finger (which is shown writing) or even as by the finger of God (as is shown in John 8:6 & Luke 11:20 ) as he writes on the ground. And given the ground can also represent for hearts (as in the parable) as there are hearts of stone (to be removed) and what they were going to throw as well. But these two also seem contrasted in 2 Cr 3:3

I just really love these two as he has spoken

The Creator writing on the ground (while another is being accused of Moses)

John 8:8
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted of their own conscience,

Its what they did which (to me) would show that law in their hearts

Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,

And because Jesus said,

John 8:7 ...
he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

In that way but I think it might not go since that which is under the law in the picture there wouldnt be the Gentiles (which show the work of the law in their hearts) one day I will make this work correctly lol

So in that place I have trouble with it in two different ways neither of which has to do with forgiveness of sins as another pictures shows Jesus saying the same thing, "sin no more".

God bless you Jason, hey how long you going? You not telling? Your non answer on that is I'll take as a yes lol

Peace to you



 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
#60
Before Moses was "I AM". Amen