A empowered and working grace

[PeterJens]

The only reason some people "try" to make it look like the Holy Spirit was in Saul in the OT like He is in the believer in the New Covenant is to try to show the false notion that the Holy Spirit will leave us like Saul. Even though Jesus said the complete opposite.

This is interesting. So on what do we agree. The Holy Spirit came upon people in Israel.
He also left them.

Prophets and men of God were part of the Kingdom of God.
These men had a special relationship with God, but little is said how the Holy Spirit
communed with them.

Their covenant was sealed by circumcision of the flesh and the heart.
All were given equal opportunity, but some openly rebelled and died.

Until the full realisation of the church or body of Christ, things were not complete.

It was a mystery yet to come, a people with the law on their hearts.
But the shadow was still powerful and significant but not the final revelation of power.

It is simply not true that people are seeking to say the old and new covenant are the
same, because clearly one is different to the other. But they are not one is a failure
while the other a success, because one is the path towards the other, an indication and
structure of what it actually means.

So if we can agree on this we have progress, though I doubt this is possible.
And look at the church today. We are very much still human and flawed, and suffering
similar issues the Israelities fell into. Which probably also shows us the ways God expects
us to respond when these situations occur.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The only reason some people "try" to make it look like the Holy Spirit was in Saul in the OT like He is in the believer in the New Covenant is to try to show the false notion that the Holy Spirit will leave us like Saul.

Actually it is another proof text that shows one can indeed fall away from the faith despite the Spirit of grace. But because people have become followers of mans carnal doctrine over what the words of clearly teach and show in numerous places, they are given over to a mind of confusion and are led forth by workers of iniquity like Mr. Prince and his false doctrine shown again here---->>>>

18-Christian’s cannot commit the unpardonable sin

19-Once a person is saved they can never be lost

David saw first hand what happened when Saul rebelled against God's commands, and David feared of the same...

Psalm 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Without God forgiving us through the cross, and the cross transforming us through
repentance, we cannot enter into Gods presence. Is that what you mean?

Who Israelite or Christian thinks they see God on their own merit?
None of them, or else they would not be an Israelite or Christian.

Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:19-22

But you guys do not understand this, because you keep on leaving it out.
You talk about grace all the time, and not about Jesus. Who is this Grace?
Please read the verses above, it is all about Jesus and not Grace.

There you go with your stinking false witness again, You are an evil Man peter. We teach jesus and the cross all the time.

The reason YOU CAN'T HEAR US, is because your blinded by your own pride, You think you know everyone.. That's why you can never understand what people believe and continuously slander them.

I give up..

 

[FreeNChrist]

Actually it is another proof text that shows one can indeed fall away from the faith despite the Spirit of grace. But because people have become followers of mans carnal doctrine over what the words of clearly teach and show in numerous places, they are given over to a mind of confusion and are led forth by workers of iniquity like Mr. Prince and his false doctrine shown again here---->>>>

David saw first hand what happened when Saul rebelled against God's commands, and David feared of the same...

Psalm 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Thank God for the Cross.

 

[PeterJens]

There you go with your stinking false witness again, You are an evil Man peter. We teach jesus and the cross all the time.

The reason YOU CAN'T HEAR US, is because your blinded by your own pride, You think you know everyone.. That's why you can never understand what people believe and continuously slander them.

I give up..

EG - you cannot take an ironic joke. You always say things like I do not understand ...
or I do not believe this ... when clearly I do.

But then if I do it to you, boom. Funny that. I do not have pride but I do know your
game. It is trying to picture someone somewhere they are not and then attacking them.
So you come out again with your ammunition I know no one and know nothing.

Very lame, because it is simply a lie.
And I said you do not understand a verse, not even which bits.
And I see the words grace so much, it becomes like God himself. So I was poking a pin
in your bubble. And boy did it burst. "Stinking false witness"

And in all honesty, a lot of Jesus and the gospel is about Gods grace, as an approach
and attitude. But religious people love catch words without explanation and you guys
redefine everything, so how are we supposed to know what you actually mean.

Do not blame me if I get the wrong idea? You say I know nothing and am unable to
comprehend your advanced spiritual thinking. I mean, if I cannot grasp your wisdom,
do not blame me, you have got to speak more simply, duh...

 

[PeterJens]

Thank God for the Cross.

Amen. This is an eternal amen and praise the Lord.

It makes me wonder if when we see the Lord so much will be plain that
we saw a little, but it is so much deeper and glorious, because it reflects
who God is and how he desires to deal with everything.

 

[PeterJens]

You are an evil Man peter.

Not sure this reaches me at all. I think pompous people when they have been pricked
talk like this.

We teach Jesus - your version of Him,
the cross - future sin forgiven so sinning and forgiveness go hand in hand

Well I reject both of your versions so we do not agree there.
And if what I say is true, it is not I who am evil.

And as I said before, lying and slandering is second nature to you, as this
demonstrates.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Amen. This is an eternal amen and praise the Lord.

It makes me wonder if when we see the Lord so much will be plain that
we saw a little, but it is so much deeper and glorious, because it reflects
who God is and how he desires to deal with everything.

The cross reflects on all that Jesus accomplished so that we who are His would never again have to live with the uncertainty of thinking God would ever withdraw His Spirit from us. Amen.

“...for He God Himself has said, I will not in any way fail you nor give you up nor leave you without support. [I will not, I will not, I will not in any degree leave you helpless nor forsake nor let you down (relax My hold on you)! Assuredly not!" Hebrews 13:5

 

[PeterJens]

you can never understand

Please children do not use the word never, because it means eternal, for all
eternity. It means from the infinite past to the infinite future. Now one could
say God can never do sin.

But unless you actually know something is impossible, or always possible the word
never is usually used as an insult, a lie and an exaguration.

So please, if you want to be polite, have integrity and not lie avoid words like
never.

 

[miknik5]

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:27

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John 20:22

“At that time,” declares the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be my people.”
This is what the Lord says:
“The people who survive the sword
will find favor in the wilderness;
I will come to give rest to Israel.”
Jeremiah 31

But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
Ezekiel 11:19

Ok, but this does not actually take me any further.

It appears you see great insight, and I am happy for you, as long as you walk
in love and share the redeeming nature of Christ.

Now I know some who get disturbed by sharing in particular ways, but that does
not define whether something is of the Lord or not.

I listened to some totally wrong people and I warm to them, until I know what they
mean and preach. It is the meaning and content that matters, and often the Lord
sends the best in some most unlikely packages. Samson was an odd guy, and so
was John the Baptist, and David was very full on, not the types we could easily
relate to.

So please do not get me wrong, those I oppose I do so for very good reasons,
and what they share and encourage for me is the enemy. I know this because
it is they who made me their enemy, not the other way around.

Is it too difficult for you to quote the exact word of John 20:22 that you changed it to say something different?
Why would that be?

I told you, I don't NORMALLY give just a verse of the scripture, but in this case, I did.
For 1John 2:27
For John 3:8


And for John 20:22


You clearly and precisely quoted 1John 2:27 and John 3:8, but John 20:22...


You changed.


Did it say something you did not want to hear, therefore, you felt you needed to "share your understanding and position"...


John 20:22 AS IT IS WRITTEN:

22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[miknik5]

Please children do not use the word never, because it means eternal, for all
eternity. It means from the infinite past to the infinite future. Now one could
say God can never do sin.

But unless you actually know something is impossible, or always possible the word
never is usually used as an insult, a lie and an exaguration.

So please, if you want to be polite, have integrity and not lie avoid words like
never.

Please children, listen to THE TRUE FATHER...

 

[PeterJens]

The cross reflects on all that Jesus accomplished so that we who are His would never again have to live with the uncertainty of thinking God would ever withdraw His Spirit from us. Amen.

I agree the cross means God loves us, so there is nothing other than our
desire to hang on to the pain of betrayal that should stop us reaching
out to Christ.

But if we stay in our sins we are open to judgement.
But it is not a thing we get, it is a change of being, something that becomes.
Only when we have communion and forgiveness can we walk and really see.

And if we stop walking or choose to walk away, which is actually insane,
then we have fallen back into once what we were.

But if we have grasped what love is, what sin is, what God is, why would we
be so mad? When Jesus talks about walking from the death to life, it is real.
If you then choose death, you must not have really seen life.

This is why I have no issue with security, because how else could I be once
I have seen life.

 

[Grace777x70]

There are lot's of scriptures in the Old Covenant that are truly stated but they are not a statement of absolute truth.

For example:

This below is a statement of truth but it is not the absolute truth when you factor in the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross, burial, resurrection and ascension - and the fact that we believers are joined with Him in one Spirit.

Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever and that He never leave us.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

If we take scriptures by themselves without factoring in Christ's work - then all of us that have ever sinned are blotted out of God's book.

We are of those that believe in what Christ has said to us about the Holy Spirit being with us forever. I don't believe our Lord Jesus Christ is a liar as I'm sure all real Christians don't either.

Test the spirits and see what they bring when they say that they are so-called "speaking truth" - do they bring life or death?

Does it bring condemnation or does it make you fall deeper in love with Jesus? - or does it bring fear?

Does it make Jesus and what He has done bigger and nobler in that He has given us as a gift His righteousness when we believed? - or does it point to "you" and what you need to do in order to "maintain your righteousness".

Does it make you totally dependent on what Christ has done by grace through faith? - or does it make it dependent on your own works?

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

When we can answer those questions - we can discern what "spirit" is telling us things. Test the "spirits". Not all spirits are from God but they all have a voice. One brings life and peace and the other brings death and condemnation.

 

[PeterJens]

Two small observations here.

I used the term children because using the word never or always is what you
teach children not to do because it is not a good thing. But some here have
not yet learnt this primary school level of understanding.

The disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus after the resurrection before
the ascension.

Equally interesting is this verse

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
John 15:3

Now for us the message is clear, we need communion with God, we need to be
born again and we need the Holy Spirit.

Interpreting who had what and when maybe speculation for us, because it is
difficult to be conclusive about it all.

But I thank God he gave us the gifts of the spirit so we can encourage one
another, so Amen brothers and sisters be encouraged, God loves us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure this reaches me at all. I think pompous people when they have been pricked
talk like this.

We teach Jesus - your version of Him,
the cross - future sin forgiven so sinning and forgiveness go hand in hand

Well I reject both of your versions so we do not agree there.
And if what I say is true, it is not I who am evil.

And as I said before, lying and slandering is second nature to you, as this
demonstrates.

would that be like you calling me mentally ill how many times now?

It does not matter if you reject what I say peter. You have to acknowledge what it is I am saying, then you have the freedom to say I disagree.

You can not say, I reject what you say, And then twist what I say to make it something different that what I or anyone else originally said.

 

[miknik5]

I need a response for your misuse of John 20:22. And so do the children

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - you cannot take an ironic joke. You always say things like I do not understand ...
or I do not believe this ... when clearly I do.

lol, I rest my case. You don't it has been proven to you over and over by so many people. Yet you still slander them and then refuse to admit you are wrong about their belief.

 

[PeterJens]

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

How true is the statement above?
The Lord is speaking about Israel and the sin of the golden calf.

So it is a context comment.

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
John 14:16

Now in context as humans we are not eternal and when we see the Lord face to face
our communion will be different, I assume.

So Jesus appears to be saying the Holy Spirit will dwell with His church now differently
than before and not leave the church, like He did with the prophets.

The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
John 14:17

The disciples knew the Holy Spirit because he lives with you, but not in you currently.
So there was to be a change of communion.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

I need a response for your misuse of John 20:22. And so do the children

I think he was quoting John 20:23 instead of 22... Perhaps an honest mistake?

 

[PeterJens]

would that be like you calling me mentally ill how many times now?

It does not matter if you reject what I say peter. You have to acknowledge what it is I am saying, then you have the freedom to say I disagree.

You can not say, I reject what you say, And then twist what I say to make it something different that what I or anyone else originally said.

EG - I have had conversations with mentally ill patients and they talk just like you.
They go back to their original ideas, which are not worked out and start again.

I thought you were an evangelist, because you are very poor at conveying your
message but very heavy on the lies and insults. So no converts for you then. lol