A forgotten point about the four gospels

[Pilgrimshope]

Well, the gospel Paul preached has gone out to all the world.

“Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul’s only one of the witnesses to the true gospel no more no less he actually rebuked those claiming he was dofferent and exalted his name

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-5‬ ‭


but any servant would feel that way I suppose it’s a terrible error to try to
Make Paul someone he isn’t he’s an apostle of THe same lord and same gospel

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Was hasn’t the end come and the Lord’s return?

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

because so many people preach a false gospel just saying gospel is nothing could be anything it’s Jesus gospel and if you notice how resistant people are to it ?


and you are totally misconstruing those scriptures as if he said the moment people say gospel in the world it’s over


the point is that after the truth has been witnessed throughout the world , and people have had the chance to hear and be saved the end will come .

he hasn’t yet because he’s waiting for folks to repent and be saved like the scripture that answered your question earlier he is giving the rejectors a chance to hear it and be saved but again there’s so much false doctrine it’s hard to even hear the truth

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Okay... I'll try again.

Among the books of the Bible, how many gospels are there?

one and it remains the exact same as when Jesus began to preach it

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We disagree.

As I said to Pilgrimshope, Jesus said to His audience, in reference to the Pharisees, "Do all that they tell you." Jesus does not intend that we gentile believers of the 21st century "Do all that" the Pharisees teach. They were the enforcers of the OT law; we gentiles are not even under that law.

Jesus' audience consisted primarily of Jews under the old covenant (though certainly, there were a few gentiles who heard Him preach). He Himself said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 15:24)... not to everyone. Does that mean He is not the Saviour of the world? No; of course not. What it does mean is that while in the flesh, Jesus' mission was to preach to the people of Israel, not to the entire world.

It appears that you are making exactly the same mistake that Pilgrimshope made; you're trying to refute my post instead of trying to understand it. If you read through the gospels and treat ALL of Jesus' words as directive for YOU, you will have to put yourself under the old testament law. You will go only to the towns of Israel (Matthew 10:6), sell your cloak and buy a sword (Luke 22:36), go and tell Jesus' brothers to go to Galilee (Matthew 28:10), go and show yourself to the priest (Mark 1:44), etc.

Do you understand now? The reader needs to determine which bits of the gospels are directive for ALL Christians, and which are specific to a certain time/place/audience.

I see someone working hard to reject the truth by spinning logic they read from Paul Ellis or Joseph prince who fermented the idea of “ rightly dividing the word of truth “


the right division is not well the Jews have this gospel and the Gentiles this other


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Israel hears the one gospel forst and rejected it but for a remnant , the remnant was sent out to the Gentiles with the same gospel


the new heard first and the gentile after there is no reason for us to say they heard this and we have another gospel that’s just error taught by the world to get us off track

 

[John146]

the point is that after the truth has been witnessed throughout the world , and people have had the chance to hear and be saved the end will come .

Scripture says otherwise.

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Why hasn’t the end come?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Scripture says otherwise.

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Do you think when that was written you and I and everyone else was already preached the gospel ? God has a time for all
Of us and the gospel will last until the end


I digress this is pointless , your free to believe in Paul and everything I was just letting you know about that

 

[Dino246]

I see someone working hard to reject the truth by spinning logic they read from Paul Ellis or Joseph prince who fermented the idea of “ rightly dividing the word of truth “


the right division is not well the Jews have this gospel and the Gentiles this other


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Israel hears the one gospel forst and rejected it but for a remnant , the remnant was sent out to the Gentiles with the same gospel


the new heard first and the gentile after there is no reason for us to say they heard this and we have another gospel that’s just error taught by the world to get us off track

You really don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not going to debate with you.

 

[John146]

Do you think rhatbwhenthaybwas written you and I and everyone else was already preached the gospel ?


I digress this is pointless , your free to believe in Paul and everything I was just letting you know about that

Ok, blessings brother.

 

[phil36]

As I said to Pilgrimshope, Jesus said to His audience, in reference to the Pharisees, "Do all that they tell you." Jesus does not intend that we gentile believers of the 21st century "Do all that" the Pharisees teach. They were the enforcers of the OT law; we gentiles are not even under that law.

My whole point is that you are missing the point. The gospels teach the church. All of it.

Now in reference to Matthew 23:3 you are missing the whole point. Of course we don't follow the Jewish religious leaders of the 1st century. But this whole discourse starts in Chapter 22:34 thru to the end of Chapter 23. not just one handpicked verse to try and claim these words aren't for us.

The whole point you miss in this lengthy discourse is what does it teach us? yes that is us - then and now!

All of the Gospel writings are for us, and written to us... Let me elaborate exactly my point in case you don't believe me you might believe Luke.

If you read through the gospels and treat ALL of Jesus' words as directive for YOU, you will have to put yourself under the old testament law.

Not everything in the gospels are a directive somethings are descriptive somethings are prescriptive, you have just made a strawman argument, anyhow, Luke disagrees with you!

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1ff


I for one most certainly disagree with you. I believe all of Jesus' words are for me to learn and as Luke tells us.. "So that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You really don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not going to debate with you.

amen that will save us both alot of time , but no hard feelings and God bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My whole point is that you are missing the point. The gospels teach the church. All of it.

Now in reference to Matthew 23:3 you are missing the whole point. Of course we don't follow the Jewish religious leaders of the 1st century. But this whole discourse starts in Chapter 22:34 thru to the end of Chapter 23. not just one handpicked verse to try and claim these words aren't for us.

The whole point you miss in this lengthy discourse is what does it teach us? yes that is us - then and now!

All of the Gospel writings are for us, and written to us... Let me elaborate exactly my point in case you don't believe me you might believe Luke.




Not everything in the gospels are a directive somethings are descriptive somethings are prescriptive, you have just made a strawman argument, anyhow, Luke disagrees with you!

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1ff


I for one most certainly disagree with you. I believe all of Jesus' words are for me to learn and as Luke tells us.. "So that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

amen dear brother in Christ I agree completely

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ok, blessings brother.

To you as well

 

[DavidTree]

Sometimes we forget that the gospels were written not before the church began , but when the church was in full swing and the Holy Ghost was still exalted among believers .


The point is when we try to make the four gospels something that isn’t the church doctrine were eliminating the foundations of church doctrine. The gospels were written as the apostles and early church began to age and in order to carry out the commission they simply recorded in scripture the things Jesus had taught them , to go teach the world about him and of him.

there seems to always be a reason we don’t want to accept the four gospels and instead we want to try to learn from the epistles which is a great thing but the epistles are only companions to help us understand the gospel

Paul for instance what did he teach the Ephesians ? Is it his Ephesians letter that was thier doctrine ? Or did Paul spend two years in person preaching and teaching them the gospel and later wrote a single epistle correcting and exhorting and comforting them ?

the epistles are just a glimpse into what Paul was teaching most of his writings are to churches he helped establish in person with men like Luke and barnabus , Apollos and Priscilla and aquilla, Timothy and mark

Paul sent letters from far away places he was establishing other cities in the gospel and hearing thkngs and sending letters to help keep them following the gospel. His epistles were never the source of doctrine for anyone they were companions and additions to the gospels. To help us remain and be comforted and edified further

if we could hear Paul’s in Morrison message it would fully include the gospels as the foundation and irrevocable word of Christ.

it’s not a good idea to remove Jesus words and replace them with Paul’s epistles we don’t even have a clear image in those few short and specifically designed letters sent to correct , rebuke and encourage the church they are wonderful but are companions to the gospel not the replacements

consider when people are insisting on Paul’s letters being everything , what they really are saying about Jesus

There are no church fathers - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

There are only those who walked with God and the Holy Spirit moved upon them to record the Mind of Christ.

We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1: 19-21

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are no church fathers - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

There are only those who walked with God and the Holy Spirit moved upon them to record the Mind of Christ.

We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1: 19-21

church fathers ? I agree I may have mistyped something that happens sometimes but no there’s one father I agree


as for the rest yes I’ve read those scriptures and love prophecy now that I understand it’s witness
Of Christ


not sure what your point is can you clarify ?

 

[Dino246]

My whole point is that you are missing the point. The gospels teach the church. All of it.

Now in reference to Matthew 23:3 you are missing the whole point. Of course we don't follow the Jewish religious leaders of the 1st century. But this whole discourse starts in Chapter 22:34 thru to the end of Chapter 23. not just one handpicked verse to try and claim these words aren't for us.

The whole point you miss in this lengthy discourse is what does it teach us? yes that is us - then and now!

All of the Gospel writings are for us, and written to us... Let me elaborate exactly my point in case you don't believe me you might believe Luke.




Not everything in the gospels are a directive somethings are descriptive somethings are prescriptive, you have just made a strawman argument, anyhow, Luke disagrees with you!

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1ff


I for one most certainly disagree with you. I believe all of Jesus' words are for me to learn and as Luke tells us.. "So that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

How about you try to understand my point (which was made long before you addressed me) before you complain that I don't understand yours?

You missed it completely, and because of that, your point to me is completely off the mark. You and PH are both tilting at windmills.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How about you try to understand my point (which was made long before you addressed me) before you complain that I don't understand yours?

You missed it completely, and because of that, your point to me is completely off the mark. You and PH are both tilting at windmills.

You just can’t resist insulting people huh? You should stop wasting your time on us simpletons who can’t grasp your amazing logic of why the gospel isn’t actually for us

 

[DavidTree]

church fathers ? I agree I may have mistyped something that happens sometimes but no there’s one father I agree


as for the rest yes I’ve read those scriptures and love prophecy now that I understand it’s witness
Of Christ


not sure what your point is can you clarify ?

Remember i said to you that there is one passage of Scripture that tells us where the false doctrines came from that are rampant in churches today?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Remember i said to you that there is one passage of Scripture that tells us where the false doctrines came from?

I think I remember you saying that but I can’t really see the point you are making , not attempting to argue but am wanting to understand your point can you just state it then I can respond to your last post about the church fathers ? And then the scriptures you quoted there about the sire word of prophecy I was wondering what the point as to my op was

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Remember i said to you that there is one passage of Scripture that tells us where the false doctrines came from that are rampant in churches today?

see you quoted from this which supports my position

“For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.



We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter is talking about Jesus transfiguration when he James and John were on the mount and heard God speak in front of seven witnesses including the father


and the. Is pointing to the witness throughout prophecy stating Jesus is the one to hear and believe in

 

[Pilgrimshope]

see you quoted from this which supports my position

“For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.



We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter is talking about Jesus transfiguration when he James and John were on the mount and heard God speak in front of seven witnesses including the father


and the. Is pointing to the witness throughout prophecy stating Jesus is the one to hear and believe in

So Peter is saying we have thier eye witness that saw and head this

“But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:32, 34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬


and then Pointing to ot prophecy like this that witnesses the same

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-9,


this sort of shows my point of we don’t forst hear the gospel peters words aren’t going to make a lot of sense