A new look at Galatians

[peacefulbeliever]

Perhaps you are understanding, and think these anti law people are not saying that we should not listen to Mt Sinai, as they put it, but that is exactly what they are saying. They are also saying that Christ did not complete the law at all, rather after He completed it, it was to be gone. They say that because Christ saves us from sin that the law describes, and because we have the Holy Spirit to lead us, we must not go to the written law ever.

They have understanding of Christ's forgiveness, of the two basic laws, of the Holy Spirit, that you talk of. They completely lack any understanding of where Mt Sinai fits into this picture and want it out. They say the truths you know and speak of wipes it out. In Galatians it says God will not be mocked, but they want God mocked when God dared speak to Moses.

I didn't think you would understand but I tried. Mt Sinai doesn't fit into any of this. We are the body of Christ, the church - those things in the OT were for the Jews as in the children of Israel - you have to know who certain scriptures are directly written to . . . but I have also tried to explain this to you.

There are three classifications of people - Jew, Gentile and church of God (which is the born again believer whether Jew or Gentile). Let's say I receive a letter from Tom written to Sue by accident and I didn't notice when I opened it and read it - I probably would have a look of confusion on my face reading it because what he has written to Sue does not pertain to me although I probably learned some things about Tom and Sue. It's the same way with the OT, we can learn a great deal from the OT and gospels but the church epistles pertain to me so there is where I look for my guidance. I can practically apply what is written there to my life now in the body of Christ. I cannot however apply OT law - speaking of THE WHOLE LAW - to my life. This is called rightly dividing the word of truth and if we do not then we have confusion and a lack of understanding.

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: - Moses and the children of Israel did not see the WHOLE picture. for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. And this happens to this day when people begin again to apply the OT to their lives day in and day out; they begin to become blinded to the liberty and freedom wherein Christ has set us. And no that does not mean I live life as I please . . . . I put off the old man, I put on the new man, I renew my mind so that I can be transformed and not conformed to this world - these are things I am told to do in the church epistles, among other great truths.

I pray "that Christ may dwell in your heart by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Love in Christ, PB

 

[RedTent]

I didn't think you would understand but I tried. Mt Sinai doesn't fit into any of this. We are the body of Christ, the church - those things in the OT were for the Jews as in the children of Israel - you have to know who certain scriptures are directly written to . . . but I have also tried to explain this to you.

There are three classifications of people - Jew, Gentile and church of God (which is the born again believer whether Jew or Gentile). Let's say I receive a letter from Tom written to Sue by accident and I didn't notice when I opened it and read it - I probably would have a look of confusion on my face reading it because what he has written to Sue does not pertain to me although I probably learned some things about Tom and Sue. It's the same way with the OT, we can learn a great deal from the OT and gospels but the church epistles pertain to me so there is where I look for my guidance. I can practically apply what is written there to my life now in the body of Christ. I cannot however apply OT law - speaking of THE WHOLE LAW - to my life. This is called rightly dividing the word of truth and if we do not then we have confusion and a lack of understanding.

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: - Moses and the children of Israel did not see the WHOLE picture. for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. And this happens to this day when people begin again to apply the OT to their lives day in and day out; they begin to become blinded to the liberty and freedom wherein Christ has set us. And no that does not mean I live life as I please . . . . I put off the old man, I put on the new man, I renew my mind so that I can be transformed and not conformed to this world - these are things I am told to do in the church epistles, among other great truths.

I pray "that Christ may dwell in your heart by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Love in Christ, PB

And I am trying my best to explain scripture to you!! When these down with the law people say Mt Sinai, they mean anything God spoke to you and I on Mt Sinai through Moses.

I think you need to search all of scripture about classifications of people and who scripture was written to. All scripture. God is a universal God, the creator of all people. His plan of salvation does not divide people up.

You are not trusting that I have searched scripture for truth, so please would you do it. If you will download a good bible program it would help you, like eSword. Stick to the bible. Use the search engine to look up "foreigner" or "stranger among you". It would help you understand who the OT was written to. Also, search everything in the bible about Abraham. Abraham was a gentile God picked for a special purpose, and you need to know that purpose and how it relates to you.

You have a good start in reading scripture, you just need to complete it.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And I am trying my best to explain scripture to you!! When these down with the law people say Mt Sinai, they mean anything God spoke to you and I on Mt Sinai through Moses.

God didn't speak to me or you on Mt. Sinai - he spoke to Moses, to Aaron and to the children of Israel.

I think you need to search all of scripture about classifications of people and who scripture was written to. All scripture. God is a universal God, the creator of all people. His plan of salvation does not divide people up.

God is a universal God. . . .But God dealt with Israel differently than he did Gentiles - you know Gentiles were BELOW the Jewish people and the Gentiles were without the law (Rom. 2:14); he deals differently with the church. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. (1 Cor. 10:32) There are the three classifications of people.

You are not trusting that I have searched scripture for truth, so please would you do it. If you will download a good bible program it would help you, like eSword. Stick to the bible. Use the search engine to look up "foreigner" or "stranger among you". It would help you understand who the OT was written to. Also, search everything in the bible about Abraham. Abraham was a gentile God picked for a special purpose, and you need to know that purpose and how it relates to you.

You have a good start in reading scripture, you just need to complete it.

No, RedTent . . . . I never said that you have not searched the scripture for I believe you have. I believe that you have diligently searched but that maybe you are just a little confused on some things. Thanks for the information about eSword and I do work with a concordance and an interlinear. I don't see that it is very hard to know that the OT was written mainly to the children of Israel and to Gentiles. I know that God chose Abraham and that he and Isaac were a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah - my Lord and Saviour. I learn about Christ's birth, death, and resurrection from the gospels and the effect this had upon my life in the church epistles.

I pray that we both come to a fuller knowledge of God's word.

 

[RedTent]

God didn't speak to me or you on Mt. Sinai - he spoke to Moses, to Aaron and to the children of Israel.

God is a universal God. . . .But God dealt with Israel differently than he did Gentiles - you know Gentiles were BELOW the Jewish people and the Gentiles were without the law (Rom. 2:14); he deals differently with the church. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. (1 Cor. 10:32) There are the three classifications of people.

No, RedTent . . . . I never said that you have not searched the scripture for I believe you have. I believe that you have diligently searched but that maybe you are just a little confused on some things. Thanks for the information about eSword and I do work with a concordance and an interlinear. I don't see that it is very hard to know that the OT was written mainly to the children of Israel and to Gentiles. I know that God chose Abraham and that he and Isaac were a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah - my Lord and Saviour. I learn about Christ's birth, death, and resurrection from the gospels and the effect this had upon my life in the church epistles.

I pray that we both come to a fuller knowledge of God's word.

Okay. I tried!!

 

[Vaudeville]

One poster said that the study I suggested explaining "the law of Moses" was straight from hell. He said he went through the entire study, and he could not compare what was said with the bible at all for every word was wrong. Just as this poster had critiqued anything God said to Moses.

do you always go on this way? your study validates and relies on the oral law Jesus condemned. it has nothing to do with God, and is from hell, according to Jesus. do you know what those books say about Jesus, do you care?

what are the numbers of the posts where i have critiqued anything God said to moses. be sure to define what you really mean by critiqued. you're out of line.

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

this is what i believe. now you will kindly stop with the drama and provide some evidence you understand anything you speak of.

 

[Vaudeville]

When these down with the law people say Mt Sinai, they mean anything God spoke to you and I on Mt Sinai through Moses.

down with the law people? you were not at Sinai, were you?

Exodus 19
19 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.


2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.


3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;


4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.


5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:


6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.


8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.

what was it like? did you really say "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do"?

 

[Vaudeville]

Since red didn't respond to this post I assume she has me on ignore. Perhaps someone can quote this so she can tell us what it means.

red you want to twist Galatians to suit your purpose, what are you going to do with Hebrews?
Explain Hebrews, red: "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord."

OP, this poster has unaddressed concerns for you.

 

[RedTent]

do you always go on this way? your study validates and relies on the oral law Jesus condemned. it has nothing to do with God, and is from hell, according to Jesus. do you know what those books say about Jesus, do you care?

what are the numbers of the posts where i have critiqued anything God said to moses. be sure to define what you really mean by critiqued. you're out of line.

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

this is what i believe. now you will kindly stop with the drama and provide some evidence you understand anything you speak of.

Here is a copy and paste from your post: " the (old) mosaic covenant with it's laws and regulations is abolished. do you agree? it's quite clear."

You have decided that the man who wrote this study does not believe in Christ, is not a Christian and he says he is. Now who should I believe? What you say about him or what he says about himself. You say he believes in something man wrote, he says he believes in scripture. You have wrongly judged before. Christians don't judge other people and assume they believe something.

If you believe all scripture is given to us, why do you deny some of it?

 

[RedTent]

OP, this poster has unaddressed concerns for you.

I read and believe in Galatians, it is you who is twisting scripture. I don't have anyone on ignore, I haven't used the ignore button. I do not think your posts reflect a person who is a Christian. You copy Christian scripture, then say you deny much of what scripture says.

 

[Vaudeville]

Here is a copy and paste from your post: " the (old) mosaic covenant with it's laws and regulations is abolished. do you agree? it's quite clear."

and does that agree with scripture or not?

Yehudim in Moshiach 8
13 When Hashem uses the word "CHADASHA" he has thereby made the Brit HaRishonah yeshanah and a Brit thus made aging, is near to being yakhlof (vanished).

does that help you?
it's the same in any language.

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

You have decided that the man who wrote this study does not believe in Christ, is not a Christian and he says he is. Now who should I believe? What you say about him or what he says about himself. You say he believes in something man wrote, he says he believes in scripture. You have wrongly judged before. Christians don't judge other people and assume they believe something.

your study uses blasphemous unbiblical oral "torah". interesting that you refuse to aknowledge that. personally i hope you believe scripture, but it appears you don't.

If you believe all scripture is given to us, why do you deny some of it?

i'm tired of your silliness. so far i've posted more old testament than you have. i deny none of it.

 

[Vaudeville]

I read and believe in Galatians, it is you who is twisting scripture. I don't have anyone on ignore, I haven't used the ignore button. I do not think your posts reflect a person who is a Christian. You copy Christian scripture, then say you deny much of what scripture says.

where are the posts saying God is bad and kill the law and hate jews or whatever unchristian charges you made?
are you a christian?

 

[phil112]

I read and believe in Galatians, it is you who is twisting scripture. I don't have anyone on ignore, I haven't used the ignore button. I do not think your posts reflect a person who is a Christian. You copy Christian scripture, then say you deny much of what scripture says.

Address the passage in Hebrews I brought to your attention then. Paul didn't write it so you can't blame it on him. You claim not to have me on ignore, so you are reading this. What does the 8th chapter mean?

 

[phil112]

............... You copy Christian scripture, then say you deny much of what scripture says.

I paste bible scripture. My bible can make a Christian out of you, but it isn't "christian scripture".
What I highlighted is a lie. Let us add that to the long list you have going, you know, the ones where we say God is bad and on and on ad naseum.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I would rather believe obama than what you say.

 

[RedTent]

Address the passage in Hebrews I brought to your attention then. Paul didn't write it so you can't blame it on him. You claim not to have me on ignore, so you are reading this. What does the 8th chapter mean?

Don't shout at me!!! You have a habit of being very rude rather than discussing scripture. I don't think you are wanting my opinion on the 8th chapter of Hebrews at all, you think that maybe you have me personally in a corner so you can criticize me. I have never seen you do anything but say you are smarter and more accurate in your personal opinions and search for scripture to back them up. I have never found you that you were at all interested in learning the spiritual content of anything scripture says. That is to back up your personal opinion that God got rid of the law of Moses and we aren't to use it any more. You don't read scripture or listen to it, unless you can make it reinforce this idea that God went back on His word that He gave Moses. Evidently, you think the 8th chapter of Hebrews will do that. I don't think it is even worth my while to accommodate you.

No one knows who wrote Hebrews but many think Paul did.

 

[just-me]

Address the passage in Hebrews I brought to your attention then. Paul didn't write it so you can't blame it on him. You claim not to have me on ignore, so you are reading this. What does the 8th chapter mean?

It starts out by explaining temple worship. The old is vanished and the new is here. Not hard is it? There are 2 verses that have the added word "covenant" referring to the temple made with hands. Chapter 9 has the added word "covenant" referring to the temple. I will quote the 3 verses I referred to, and begin with the 1st verse of chapter 8 for better understanding.

Hebrews 8:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

"the pattern shewed to thee in the mount" in verse 5 is related to the tablets of stone. Exodus 24:12 through Exodus 32:15. These are temple ordinances.

"covenant" is italicized being an added word referring to the temple worship of the old covenant.
Hebrews 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first "covenant" had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new "covenant," he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then verily the first "covenant" had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Now these sacrificial ordinances were fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

The written law that was given to Moses contains (in part) Exodus chapters 20 through 23. They were written before God called Moses up to the mount to receive the tablets of stone.

The new covenant temple was made without hands. The same goes for circumcision.

Mark 14:58 (KJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP]We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Colossians 2:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Acts 17:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 

[RedTent]

I just read that chapter again, it is one of the most beautiful in the bible. How in the world can you read it as against God!! They had a symbol of blood for atonement, God sent Christ. They had a temple on earth and a priest in that temple, and God sent Christ! Christ is better, now we don't need animal blood or temples on the earth to tell us about the one to come, Christ has come. They had the words of the law, now the words would be backed up with the Holy Spirit. How can you possibly see this as anything but beautiful? Or make it something to fight about and express what is against our being one in Christ? Or say it means God destroyed anything?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just read that chapter again, it is one of the most beautiful in the bible. How in the world can you read it as against God!! They had a symbol of blood for atonement, God sent Christ. They had a temple on earth and a priest in that temple, and God sent Christ! Christ is better, now we don't need animal blood or temples on the earth to tell us about the one to come, Christ has come. They had the words of the law, now the words would be backed up with the Holy Spirit. How can you possibly see this as anything but beautiful? Or make it something to fight about and express what is against our being one in Christ? Or say it means God destroyed anything?

It is beautifull

It brought them and us to Christ.

But now that you have Christ, why not move to a better thing, then keep trying to follow somethign which is passing away?

 

[phil112]

Don't shout at me!!!

You don't listen unless I do.

I don't think you are wanting my opinion on the 8th chapter of Hebrews at all, you think that maybe you have me personally in a corner so you can criticize me.

That's right. Your opinion of what Hebrews says is irrelevent. It is very plain, and very clear. The word of God is what has you backed into a corner, not me.

I have never seen you do anything but say you are smarter and more accurate in your personal opinions

I have never said any such thing. Yet another lie.

and search for scripture to back them up.

Oh yes ma'am! I absolutely believe in backing up my belief with scripture!

I have never found you that you were at all interested in learning the spiritual content of anything scripture says.

What grates on you is that the bible has already taught me the "spiritual content" of scripture, and I will not allow you, or any other person, to force their will or false doctrine on me.

 

[RedTent]

It is beautifull

It brought them and us to Christ.

But now that you have Christ, why not move to a better thing, then keep trying to follow somethign which is passing away?

Blood of animals passed away, but the spiritual meaning of blood did not. Priest passed away, but how they explained Christ did not. The temple in Jerusalem passed away, but the spiritual temple did not. We are given the Holy Spirit to lead, but the law that is part of God and how to express it given to us did not pass away.

We are told that God is love, and that every single law has it's roots in love. It is the essence of God, it cannot be destroyed.

 

[RedTent]

I will not allow you, or any other person, to force their will or false doctrine on me.

Finally we agree on something scripture says! We are not to listen to any person, we are to listen to scripture. If I direct you to scripture, listen to that. If I give a personal opinion, don't listen. I do the same with you.