A new look at Galatians
- Thread starter RedTent
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Colossians 2:18-23 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
[SUP]21 [/SUP](Touch not; taste not; handle not;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Aha!! This is talking about the doctrines, and traditions of men, NOT the word of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
[SUP]21 [/SUP](Touch not; taste not; handle not;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Aha!! This is talking about the doctrines, and traditions of men, NOT the word of God.
Perhaps you are understanding, and think these anti law people are not saying that we should not listen to Mt Sinai, as they put it, but that is exactly what they are saying. They are also saying that Christ did not complete the law at all, rather after He completed it, it was to be gone. They say that because Christ saves us from sin that the law describes, and because we have the Holy Spirit to lead us, we must not go to the written law ever.
They have understanding of Christ's forgiveness, of the two basic laws, of the Holy Spirit, that you talk of. They completely lack any understanding of where Mt Sinai fits into this picture and want it out. They say the truths you know and speak of wipes it out. In Galatians it says God will not be mocked, but they want God mocked when God dared speak to Moses.
They have understanding of Christ's forgiveness, of the two basic laws, of the Holy Spirit, that you talk of. They completely lack any understanding of where Mt Sinai fits into this picture and want it out. They say the truths you know and speak of wipes it out. In Galatians it says God will not be mocked, but they want God mocked when God dared speak to Moses.
So it is OK to use kosher as a reminder of spiritual truths, it is OK to honor the Sabbath as God spoke to us in Genesis etc., it is OK to use the lunar calendar, it is OK to go to church on Saturday, it is OK to respect God's suggestion we honor the feasts. It is simply not OK to use these as finished spiritual truths, to use them as our justification instead of using Christ.
I suppose you can do whatever it is you feel God is calling you to do (kosher foods). I would however be wary of teaching others to do those things.
in 1corinthians chapter 10 we are told that we can eat anything without question so long as it's not sacrificed unto idols. Does that mean you must eat everything? no, but the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
Is it okay to honor the Sabbath? I do not suppose it is evil to do so, nor is it my decision what is and what is not okay. However the bible is clear that no man should judge me according to it
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (Colossians 2)
regarding all of your questions. Is it okay to do this? (outwardly, for you are speaking of days, physical meats, physical feasts and watching of physical seasons) Jesus says this.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
the problem is not on the outside, it is on the inside. You can deal in kosher foods, you can rest on the Sabbath and you can watch the lunar calendar and none of that has anything to do with the root of the problem.
Can you, having Jesus in your heart, cleansing you from within add any single benefit from without?
again, if it makes you feel better I am not here to say you cannot. That is not for me to decide. Again, I only warn about teaching others to do so.
God bless you sister. I hope my words do not offend you in any way.
in 1corinthians chapter 10 we are told that we can eat anything without question so long as it's not sacrificed unto idols. Does that mean you must eat everything? no, but the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
Is it okay to honor the Sabbath? I do not suppose it is evil to do so, nor is it my decision what is and what is not okay. However the bible is clear that no man should judge me according to it
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (Colossians 2)
regarding all of your questions. Is it okay to do this? (outwardly, for you are speaking of days, physical meats, physical feasts and watching of physical seasons) Jesus says this.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
the problem is not on the outside, it is on the inside. You can deal in kosher foods, you can rest on the Sabbath and you can watch the lunar calendar and none of that has anything to do with the root of the problem.
Can you, having Jesus in your heart, cleansing you from within add any single benefit from without?
again, if it makes you feel better I am not here to say you cannot. That is not for me to decide. Again, I only warn about teaching others to do so.
God bless you sister. I hope my words do not offend you in any way.
You have it right, the problem is with the inside rather than the outside. By your looking only at the outside for deciding on these things, it is disregarding that. It makes no difference if you do or don't do these things on the outside, but it DOES make a difference if you do not do them on the inside.
Paul was really upset then he was told to teach circumcision of the outside as how to be accepted, it was not so that this must be done, but Paul said it was to be done on the inside.
Yes, I think it is possible to add a benefit from "without". Not in the doing itself, but in relating it to the real doing, a reminder of the spiritual need. By the churches focus on not doing the outside, they have no reminders of the need for the inside requirement, and many simply don't do any of what God requires of our spiritual doing. We are not to focus on the outside doing, but on the inside. Todays church gets their tail in a knot over anyone who DARES do any outside doing, our church focuses on the material act throwing importance and guilt on people who need outside reminders. Others may decide the outside doing is enough and forget the inside need. Both are wrong.
Paul was really upset then he was told to teach circumcision of the outside as how to be accepted, it was not so that this must be done, but Paul said it was to be done on the inside.
Yes, I think it is possible to add a benefit from "without". Not in the doing itself, but in relating it to the real doing, a reminder of the spiritual need. By the churches focus on not doing the outside, they have no reminders of the need for the inside requirement, and many simply don't do any of what God requires of our spiritual doing. We are not to focus on the outside doing, but on the inside. Todays church gets their tail in a knot over anyone who DARES do any outside doing, our church focuses on the material act throwing importance and guilt on people who need outside reminders. Others may decide the outside doing is enough and forget the inside need. Both are wrong.
That is a ridiculous question, and if you would read scripture you would have your answer. If you knew me personally, you could even point out sins to me, you are good at judging so you would know. Again, you judge!!! I am afraid, so you point out that you judge me as sinning. Fear is not of the Lord. Neither, by the way is judging people only judging sin.
My point is simply that we are justified by the faith of Christ and his all sufficient blood being applied to our lives by the simple act of faith....No matter how many times a fleshly man attempts to earn his way to eternal salvation through the law it will always fall short because...NO flesh will ever be justified in his sight by the keeping of the law as the just shall live by faith (belief)
[SUP]A friendly reminder to all of us.
12 [/SUP]Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (colossians 3)
12 [/SUP]Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (colossians 3)
Every poster I have read agrees this is what scripture says. What does this have to do with Christ's statement "If you love me you will keep my commandments" and other scriptures about our need to keep the law? Are you considering keeping the law for your salvation? I don't think that would ever work.
No way...I trust Jesus, his faith, his blood, his sacrifice, his death, burial and resurrection for my total salvation.....Jesus also said that Loving your neighbor is the (fulfilling) of the LAW.....my TOTAL SALVATION, JUSTIFICATION AND SANCTIFICATION has been made complete by the PERFECT FAITH OF CHRIST.....I cannot add to my salvation by doing good works and or keeping the law....as to try and keep the whole law will point to complete failure on our part.
If I had the audacity to claim I am under law, I would be claiming I have the power that only God has, I could even create the world as God did. I could declare myself forgiven of my sin, I could live a perfect life in opposition to what God says, what power I would have. I would declare myself an absolute fool.
I claim that I must listen to both the Holy Spirit and to be guided by the written law. For that I have pages and pages of put downs, of being told off, of being judged. I claim that when Paul said "law of Moses" he did not mean that he was condemning God for speaking to Moses about law. I claim God gave us direction in love for us.
I have NEVER claimed I am following law perfectly. I know I am not. You know I am not. I claim that I do my best to follow Christ, and Christ said I was to keep his commandments. So I try and I go to Christ for forgiveness. You say I must not try, and I disagree with you.
I claim that I must listen to both the Holy Spirit and to be guided by the written law. For that I have pages and pages of put downs, of being told off, of being judged. I claim that when Paul said "law of Moses" he did not mean that he was condemning God for speaking to Moses about law. I claim God gave us direction in love for us.
I have NEVER claimed I am following law perfectly. I know I am not. You know I am not. I claim that I do my best to follow Christ, and Christ said I was to keep his commandments. So I try and I go to Christ for forgiveness. You say I must not try, and I disagree with you.
And I would like to add that "not living under law" can not be defined as a need to live without listening to law. The very Holy Spirit we are given listens to law. It means that I go to Christ for forgiveness. It scripture was saying to never listen to law it would say "don't ever think God gave Moses law as truth" or some such.