A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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Mar 14, 2011
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Baptize.

A transliteration of the greek word BAPTIZO (they took off the O at the end, and added an E and made a NEW english word.

In order to translate this word. You have to translate the GREEK word from which it gets is origin.

Baptism comes from the greek Baptizmo (they removed the O)

Baptist comes from the greek word Baptistis, which means one who baptizes (they remove the IS


 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Not a cessasionist

Are you saying "different kinds of tongues" means non earthly languages?

...... that is a streeeeeeeetch to me

you have to ignore part of what Paul states concerning tongues in order to reach the conclusions you state you agree with

you are simply a cessationist ...but not in agreement with scripture. can you make a cognizant reasoning for your agreement with the op or are you just picking sides?

the Bible, does not say always an earthly language. that, is what you are saying to qualify your opinion that tongues have ceased

you cannot prove the Bible says that because it simply does not say that. you have arrived at that understanding though it is neither stated nor implied in scripture

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.” 1 Corinthians 12:4-10.

How is it then, brethren Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.” 1 Corinthians 14:26-27.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Are people speaking in tongues today doing under the unction of the Holy Spirit or not?! Once you answer that, we'll see about an apology. Either it's of God or satan, which is it?!

NO, they speak in Ecstatic Utterance, and it is not an Earthy Language that had not been learned by the user. Ecstatic Utterances are Learned Behavior or a Psychological Phenomena similar to THE HINDU RELIGION, and NEITHER are of the Holy Spirit. It is a Natural Phenomena, not super natural, and the problem with that is NO ONE is HEARING in his own Dialectos, therefore IN RARE CASES, a demon can make use of an unsuspecting tongues speaker with out them being aware of it, to Curse Christ in the Sanctuary. Remember Peter was used to deliver a message from SATAN, what makes you feel IMMUNE. Now in the Modern day Charismatic or Pentecostal Churches, the hearers understand NOTHING, they rely on an unproven Interpreter, and NO unbelieving Jew or Jews are present. Every time it was used in the BIBLE an unbelieving JEW heard in his own Dialectos.

You can consider that to BE YOUR SECOND WARNING ABOUT BEING A DIVISIVE PERSON.

How do I know it has to be an Earthly Language ? ? ?

1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign,
and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Acts 2:6-12 (KJV)
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. [.dialektos - is an earthly language so correct even the ACCENT is Correct.]
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[.What was amazing is Galilaeans had a strong accent, and none could detect it.]
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.


ANYTHING LESS IS A COUNTERFEIT, ASK ANY JEWISH CHRISTIAN.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,254
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a legend in your own mind? :LOL:

buy some space on the net and create your own forum and you can moderate it and populate it with people just like you

and argue with yourself :rolleyes:

you have nothing to contribute but negativity and brash nonsense

nobody really cares. you are simply the entertainment flavor of the week

To quote my Favorite COMMEDIAN:

Say Good Bye, Gracie.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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Niether one of them fits sis, thats my point

Your right, no one had the HS until pentecost. At one moment, they were baptized by the HS (their sins were washed away) and annointed by the HS (He came into them, sealed them, and gave each of them gifts)

This infillng of the HS or baptism of the HS is a missaplication of many who believe in tongues..

When I use my gift, I am not filled, or baptized or whatever by the holy spirit. I m just by nature and power of the HS doing what he empowered or gifted me to do.
Luke 1:15............30 to 35 years before the 50th day!!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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By the way, Just to make it clear.

RickyZ has the right to say he thinks the bible supports tongues,,

Just as VCO has the right to say what he does nto see the bible support tongues,

It is what they believe,
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
To quote my Favorite COMMEDIAN:

Say Good Bye, Gracie.

well that doesn't really work

to quote God, He has no favorites and does not create confusion

you state the Holy Spirit had you put your info together in which you expressed a decided and very negative bias towards those who have found the opposite of what you believer to be true WHILE basing their beliefs on scripture

so you may very well be an important figure in your own estimation and an authority on tongues, you are not an authority on tongues as the Bible clearly indicates

now you can post all the negative things you want. the Bible itself does not whitewash the sins of the people in it, but we even see in scripture that tongues...actually any gift for that matter...can be abused and in my experience I would not contest that at all

if you are happy with your conclusions well fine. but your dismissal is no indication of truth. it is rather an indication of intolerance
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Baptize.

A transliteration of the greek word BAPTIZO (they took off the O at the end, and added an E and made a NEW english word.

In order to translate this word. You have to translate the GREEK word from which it gets is origin.

Baptism comes from the greek Baptizmo (they removed the O)

Baptist comes from the greek word Baptistis, which means one who baptizes (they remove the IS
well yes it does

but you may have missed where it has been in used for literally hundreds of years in the mouths of English speaking people everywhere

do you not understand how language evolves?

why stop with the word baptize?

there was a time NO word was an English word

you cannot argue with dictionaries and the etymology of a word described therein.

et·y·mol·o·gy
/ˌedəˈmäləjē/
noun
noun: etymology
  1. the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.
    "the decline of etymology as a linguistic discipline"
    • the origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning.
      plural noun: etymologies
      "the etymology of the word “devil”"
      synonyms:derivation, word history, development, origin, source
Origin
late Middle English: from Old French ethimologie, via Latin from Greek etumologia, from etumologos‘student of etymology’, from etumon, neuter singular of etumos ‘true’.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
You can consider that to BE YOUR SECOND WARNING ABOUT BEING A DIVISIVE PERSON.
what is this exactly?

Kayla is one of the most sincere and easy going people here

disagreeing about your POV is hardly divisive

the very nature of your OP is divisive... as has been proven in this very thread

this is the BDF..the D, stands for DISCUSSION, not dissertation
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Sadly, the word “tongue” and “baptize” (which is not even an english word) has caused the confusion of many,,
Can you elaborate how the word "baptize" as a transliteration has caused problems?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Not a cessasionist

Are you saying "different kinds of tongues" means non earthly languages?

...... that is a streeeeeeeetch to me

what are YOU saying is the question

I only posted scripture that does NOT say earthly languages ONLY

what do YOU do with this?

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.” 1 Corinthians 12:4-10.

I'm not the one saying 'different kinds of tongues'

Paul is the one writing that. so, no. I am not saying that

we can't ignore it though. there are angel languages though as is indicated

but I am interested in what is being said by Paul...different kinds of tongues
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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Can you elaborate how the word "baptize" as a transliteration has caused problems?
Sure....by transliterating instead of translating it leaves the word open to be construed anyway a man or religion wants to construe it.....the word for sprinkle is Rantizo and is used when Jesus references the cups and platters......the word Baptizo orginally comes from a word that describes a ship SINKING under the surface of the water, hence it's use in representing A BURIAL.....we do not throw people on the ground and toss a handful of dirt on them....we PUT THEM UNDER THE GROUND or sealed in a tomb <--Note....Jesus was sealed in a tomb because a RICH GUY ->JOSEPH GAVE UP A TOMB FOR HIM....otherwise he would have been put UNDER the dirt.....there is one biblical was to BAPTIZE with water....and immersion is IT!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
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Niether one of them fits sis, thats my point

Your right, no one had the HS until pentecost. At one moment, they were baptized by the HS (their sins were washed away) and annointed by the HS (He came into them, sealed them, and gave each of them gifts)

This infillng of the HS or baptism of the HS is a missaplication of many who believe in tongues..

When I use my gift, I am not filled, or baptized or whatever by the holy spirit. I m just by nature and power of the HS doing what he empowered or gifted me to do.
Some 30 to 35 years before the 50th day....

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,329
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According to the OP we aren't drinking from the same Spirit. Pentecostals and Charismatics are demon possessed. I take offense to that.
Wrong conclusion. Man has a spirit given him by God. Men do many things by the power of their spirit wholly apart from the Holy Spirit and not a direct result of the influence of demons or evil spirits. Men determine what they will do by the strength of their spirit. We as Christians are to surrender our spirit to His Spirit. We are to resist the devil who is the price and power of this world.

Moses acted in his spirit when he struck the rock twice instead of one time as God instructed him. The devil did not make him do it. Moses acted according to his spirit and self will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Sure....by transliterating instead of translating it leaves the word open to be construed anyway a man or religion wants to construe it.....the word for sprinkle is Rantizo and is used when Jesus references the cups and platters......the word Baptizo orginally comes from a word that describes a ship SINKING under the surface of the water, hence it's use in representing A BURIAL.....we do not throw people on the ground and toss a handful of dirt on them....we PUT THEM UNDER THE GROUND or sealed in a tomb <--Note....Jesus was sealed in a tomb because a RICH GUY ->JOSEPH GAVE UP A TOMB FOR HIM....otherwise he would have been put UNDER the dirt.....there is one biblical was to BAPTIZE with water....and immersion is IT!
Okay, so how does this affect the baptism/in-filling of the holy spirit that people keep talking about?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
different kinds of tongues
It is a spiritual gift if you can suddenly, without learning the language, speak a language.

The different relates to the variety within that congregation not that they were of an angelic origin.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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Okay, so how does this affect the baptism/in-filling of the holy spirit that people keep talking about?
The point EG is making is the fact that many conflate water immersion with being immersed into the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief......The Spirit indwells, seals and makes alive at the moment of faith <--the gifts in the 1st century A.D. were the results of this indwelling......Acts 2, the 50th day was a special ONE OFF EVENT and is primarily focused on the HOLY SPIRIT taking the place of Jesus as conforter, guide and teacher of the Lord's churches........
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The point EG is making is the fact that many conflate water immersion with being immersed into the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief......The Spirit indwells, seals and makes alive at the moment of faith <--the gifts in the 1st century A.D. were the results of this indwelling......Acts 2, the 50th day was a special ONE OFF EVENT and is primarily focused on the HOLY SPIRIT taking the place of Jesus as conforter, guide and teacher of the Lord's churches........
So then some churches teach there is more than one indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is this the place of contention?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
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So then some churches teach there is more than one indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is this the place of contention?
Part of ....and confusing water immersion with the Spiritual immersion into Christ when one is born again from above.....