A Question about Free Will, Hell and how it is all set up.

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

What caused you to stop believing in God?

My inability to find an answer to my question in my opening post.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Heaven wouldn't be a loving place if people who don't love are allowed there.

You seem to be misunderstanding my initial question. I am not saying that people that do not love should be allowed into Heaven. I am saying that God, through his omnipotence, can make all people love and allow them into Heaven. He can do so, through his omnipotence, without contradicting free will.

 

[trofimus]

Help me to understand your picture analogy. What does the black in the picture represent?

Evil. Damnation of some people. Eternal death of some people. Temporal pain and death in our physical bodies. The fall of Adam/Satan. Sins of imperfect creatures. Etc.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Sure you do. We all do. Only GOD can give that to you. If that's what you want pray for him to give it to you.

I have and am, and I am also reaching out to the community for answers. But I haven't found one to fully answer my question yet.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Evil. Damnation of some people. Eternal death of some people. Temporal pain and death in our physical bodies. The fall of Adam/Satan. Sins of imperfect creatures. Etc.

So if a perfect picture requires black. Then a perfect plan requires evil and sin? I do not think this is right. God is omnipotent. He can make a perfect plan without evil and sin. He has that power.

 

[graceNpeace]

You seem to be misunderstanding my initial question. I am not saying that people that do not love should be allowed into Heaven. I am saying that God, through his omnipotence, can make all people love and allow them into Heaven. He can do so, through his omnipotence, without contradicting free will.

And clearly this is not so!
You might not like how gravity operates either, but trying to behave as if gravity is somehow different to reality is obviously dangerous to your health...

You are focusing on one or two attributes of God while ignoring the rest and then assuming that you can redefine God in your image...it doesn't work!

 

[Magenta]

You seem to be misunderstanding my initial question. I am not saying that people that do not love should be allowed into Heaven. I am saying that God, through his omnipotence, can make all people love and allow them into Heaven. He can do so, through his omnipotence, without contradicting free will.

Your question is illogical because it contradicts itself and is therefore self-negating.

 

[trofimus]

So if a perfect picture requires black. Then a perfect plan requires evil and sin? I do not think this is right. God is omnipotent. He can make a perfect plan without evil and sin. He has that power.

Yes, a perfect plan requires evil and sin. Thats why God allowed it.

God could change that, but it would not be the best possible world, then. Something important would be missing for eternity. For example our maturity. We would be still naive children without any personality.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

And clearly this is not so!
You might not like how gravity operates either, but trying to behave as if gravity is somehow different to reality is obviously dangerous to your health...

You are focusing on one or two attributes of God while ignoring the rest and then assuming that you can redefine God in your image...it doesn't work!

Are you saying that God cannot make people love him without contradicting their free will?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You seem to be misunderstanding my initial question. I am not saying that people that do not love should be allowed into Heaven. I am saying that God, through his omnipotence, can make all people love and allow them into Heaven. He can do so, through his omnipotence, without contradicting free will.

How can GOD make people love when love is a free will choice? Love doesn't mean anything if it's pre-programmed. Would you want an automaton for a mate?

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Yes, a perfect plan requires evil and sin. Thats why God allowed it.

God could change that, but it would not be the best possible world. Something important would be missing.

As with the plan, God can make a perfect world without sin. He can make a plan without sin and also have a perfect world without sin. These things are not dependent on each other because of God's power.

 

[graceNpeace]

Are you saying that God cannot make people love him without contradicting their free will?

Not at all!!!!
The issue is YOUR misunderstanding - nothing to do with God.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

How can GOD make people love when love is a free will choice? Love doesn't mean anything if it's pre-programmed. Would you want an automaton for a mate?

How can God do it? He can do it because He is God. To say He cannot would be saying that He is not God.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Not at all!!!!
The issue is YOUR misunderstanding - nothing to do with God.

Ok, so if God can make people love Him without contradicting their free will. Then why does he allow them to go to Hell?

 

[trofimus]

As with the plan, God can make a perfect world without sin. He can make a plan without sin and also have a perfect world without sin. These things are not dependent on each other because of God's power.

Again, God decided which plan is the best. It was the one containing the exact amount of evil, exact events etc that are in this Universe.

Any small change in its "tuning" and it would be just worse. Now its perfectly balanced, "mathematically" precise. Everything will be great in the end and we will be able to witness that, if we will abide in Christ.

 

[graceNpeace]

As with the plan, God can make a perfect world without sin. He can make a plan without sin and also have a perfect world without sin. These things are not dependent on each other because of God's power.

You are ignoring manifest reality!
What you think God could or should do is immaterial surely?
The fact is that we live in a world tainted by sin, all human beings have a sin nature, and all human beings (if they live to an age to be held accountable) will actually sin!
This is the reality!

Speculating about a different reality is fruitless....
I repeat: You might not like how gravity operates either, but trying to behave as if gravity is somehow different to reality is obviously dangerous to your health...
This is what you trying to do with God...

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

Again, God decided which plan is the best. It was the one containing the exact amount of evil, exact events etc that are in this Universe.

Any small change in its "tuning" and it would be just worse. Now its perfectly balanced, "mathematically" precise. Everything will be great in the end and we will be able to witness that, if we will abide in Christ.

You are saying that the best plan God could come up with is one where He ends up sending people to Hell even though He doesn't want to?

 

[Magenta]

So if a perfect picture requires black. Then a perfect plan requires evil and sin? I do not think this is right. God is omnipotent. He can make a perfect plan without evil and sin. He has that power.

Again you place yourself above God.

 

[Kevin_Bo-Bevin]

You are ignoring manifest reality!
What you think God could or should do is immaterial surely?
The fact is that we live in a world tainted by sin, all human beings have a sin nature, and all human beings (if they live to an age to be held accountable) will actually sin!
This is the reality!

Speculating about a different reality is fruitless....
I repeat: You might not like how gravity operates either, but trying to behave as if gravity is somehow different to reality is obviously dangerous to your health...
This is what you trying to do with God...

I am trying to understand why God, despite His love, would send people to Hell when He doesn't have to. I'm sorry, but I need a better answer than "This is the reality!"

 

[Magenta]

Ok, so if God can make people love Him without contradicting their free will. Then why does he allow them to go to Hell?

They are not welcome in His house when they refuse to acknowledge Him as Host.