A Simple Question, No Contention, No Controversy

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't want to upset anyone, I just like to talk about Jesus, and I never see anyone who like to do the same. I am a believer in Jesus , but I do not attend Church, because I believe that it is designed to keep you in infancy. So I wanted to talk with other believers. So I apologize if I have upset anyone.

do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some..

I suggest you find a local body my friend, Yes some churches do not help others grow. but there are some good churches out there, God did not expect us to figbht this spiritual battle as lone wolf christians.. Thats why he created the body for our own benefit.

 

[gb9]

I don't want to upset anyone, I just like to talk about Jesus, and I never see anyone who like to do the same. I am a believer in Jesus , but I do not attend Church, because I believe that it is designed to keep you in infancy. So I wanted to talk with other believers. So I apologize if I have upset anyone.

well, there is a lot of false teaching in this thread by what Paul would call judaizers , trying to convince others that you have to keep the law/ Sabbath to be saved.

so, if you preach salvation by grace and faith through Christ., you are going to upset them. watch. they will attack what I said here, claim they DO believe in Jesus, but them jump back into law/sabbath keeping.

 

[joefizz]

I don't want to upset anyone, I just like to talk about Jesus, and I never see anyone who like to do the same. I am a believer in Jesus , but I do not attend Church, because I believe that it is designed to keep you in infancy. So I wanted to talk with other believers. So I apologize if I have upset anyone.

I appreciate your humbleness but, my post wasn't directed "to you" my post was directed "at the Op/creator of this thread" because this individual is being quite "ridiculous" expecting that others will just "give in" to their belief,it's "been tried before" and leads to "agitation" you on the other hand are new,and so I "don't know much about you" and as far as I know you aren't "upsetting people" so try not to "worry so much".

 

[joefizz]

well, there is a lot of false teaching in this thread by what Paul would call judaizers , trying to convince others that you have to keep the law/ Sabbath to be saved.

so, if you preach salvation by grace and faith through Christ., you are going to upset them. watch. they will attack what I said here, claim they DO believe in Jesus, but them jump back into law/sabbath keeping.

Don't forget about calling us lazy willful sinners they have such a nice way with words it's no wonder they can't stand paul or Jesus's words,they aren't "nice" words.

 

[Nehemiah6]

the last time the Sabbath was mentioned in the N.T. was the letter of Colossians. , so a large chunk of the N.T. does not even mention it.

And guess what? Paul calls "sabbaths" SHADOWS of things to come. When there is a shadow, we should look for the reality. So he calls Christ the reality. Christ is our Sabbath Rest. We enter into God's perfect and eternal rest through Christ, who is our Peace, our Righteousness, and our Sanctification.

Furthermore, if sabbath-keeping was for the Church, it would have been clearly stated in Acts 15.

 

[beta]

And guess what? Paul calls "sabbaths" SHADOWS of things to come. When there is a shadow, we should look for the reality. So he calls Christ the reality. Christ is our Sabbath Rest. We enter into God's perfect and eternal rest through Christ, who is our Peace, our Righteousness, and our Sanctification.

Furthermore, if sabbath-keeping was for the Church, it would have been clearly stated in Acts 15.

There are no SABBATH-instructions for gentile christian churches....that's why we don't find them anywhere in the NT....nor were any given to people OUTSIDE of ISRAEL who only are GOD's people.... 'For you are a holy people unto the Lortd your God and the Lord has chosen you to be a 'peculiar people unto himself , above all the nations that are on the earth Deut 14v2;
how about the NT 1Pet 2v9 But you are a chosen generation a 'royal priesthood, 'a'Holy nation, a 'Peculiar people.....still the same honour given only to Israel.
So why are christian gentiles or any other nation or church EXCLUDED ? Obviously because ALL have to turn to the Lord [of the Sabbath] who is the ONLY REAL. TRUE SAVIOUR !
ALL who want to be in the Kingdom of God have to CONVERT to HIS WAYS....JESUS says so Mat 7v21....and it is obviously the Will of God that we honour HIS Commandments.

 

[Deade]

well, there is a lot of false teaching in this thread by what Paul would call judaizers , trying to convince others that you have to keep the law/ Sabbath to be saved.

so, if you preach salvation by grace and faith through Christ., you are going to upset them. watch. they will attack what I said here, claim they DO believe in Jesus, but them jump back into law/sabbath keeping.

I don't recall anyone throughout this thread claiming saying they weren't saved by grace and faith through Christ like you say. You find it offensive that some choose to acknowledge a Sabbath just as Christ did by example.

Notice I didn't say keep the Sabbath, because we can never do that perfectly. We can never be justified by keeping any of the laws, and yet they still guide us toward our goal of having a Christ-like mind. If you can accomplish that without acknowledging God's law, good for you.

 

[beta]

Be converted to God, not jews,

The jews tried to convert christians To be jews and paul wrote half the nt exposing them,

That is what I am saying...we are to convert to GOD !!! we are not talking about Jews or what they want. Let us focus on the Lord God and what HE wants !

 

[gb9]

so, in the middle of the Sermon on the Mount, we have beta plucking out one verse, in the middle of all those direct instructions from Christ, and pointing back to something that was given through Moses from God, to Israel only, instead of saying to obey the words of Christ, straight from His mouth. talk about being tone deaf...

then I am attacked for saying that I am against folks keeping the Sabbath, which I have never said. what I have said, many times, is that if one chooses to keep it, that is fine. but, it has nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

you guys are proving , more and more, you simply do not know what you are talking about. you just do not like your idol, the law/sabbath, being attacked,

 

[Nehemiah6]

...if one chooses to keep it, that is fine. but, it has nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ...

Neither does it have anything to do with the Christian walk.

It is the Jews who presently observe their sabbaths, and reject Christ. So for a Christian to revert to the shadow (the sabbath) is to also reject the teachings of Christ regarding the Lord's Day. How could the apostle John call the first day of the week "the Lord's Day" unless the Lord Himself had instructed him to do so? Why has no one given this some serious thought? John could not have possibly concocted this on his own. And ever since the apostolic period, Christians met for worship on the Lord's Day, and made it their sabbath also (just as Jews worship on sabbath days).

 

[stonesoffire]

The Sabbath was to commemorate a finished creation.
The first day of the week is to commemorate a finished redemption.

You have to understand something...
God's laws that were obeyed physically under Moses are now obeyed spiritually under Christ. This is why we no longer take adulterers outside the city and stoned them to death, or sacrifice a physically perfect lamb by a high priest, pay for certain things with certain animals instead of money, or perform physical circumcision for religious reasons.

...Or physically rest on a physical day. Our sabbath is now done spiritually, and is called "The peace that surpasses understanding."

(ROMANS 7:1-4)

I see these things differently JaumeJ

The age of law for physical Israel has been finished by Messiah, but Messiah came for all the world, not just Israel. So this age now is the age of grace. Which means that Gods approval for man is found only through His Son. Our obedience is to believe what He has done, and who He is.

So the day now is the 8th. The day of new beginnings. The rest for man is found in Jesus...resting from works of trying to please God, and being found in Jesus, and He working through our rest. Rest of course is always a work of Spirit now, not law.

So this day is the day of the circumcised heart. Flesh being cut off...Which produces a whole new creation as we declare Him.

Whom shall this generation declare?

 

[stonesoffire]

Again, not yet understanding the the new format. I was posting to the OP only.

 

[Deade]

And ever since the apostolic period, Christians met for worship on the Lord's Day, and made it their sabbath also (just as Jews worship on sabbath days).

Scripture references, please?

 

[Yahshua]

Language...
Sabbath = Shabbat (Heb.) = Seven(th) [day]
Shabua = Week (Eng.) = Time period of every seven days


Truth...
Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28 and Luke 6:5
"The Son of Man [Christ] is Lord of the Sabbath."


Reminder...
Sabbath = Shabbat (Heb.) = Seven(th) [day]


Thus...
Christ is Lord of the Seventh day.


Restated in passive tense...
The Seventh Day is day Christ is Lord of.


Simplified...
The Seventh Day = Christ's day.


Fact...
Christ = The Lord


Thus...
The Seventh Day = The Lord's day.


Therefore...
When scripture says believers met or meditated/prayed on the Lord's Day, they met or prayed on the seventh day: The Sabbath Day.

 

[Deade]

Neither does it have anything to do with the Christian walk.

It is the Jews who presently observe their sabbaths, and reject Christ. So for a Christian to revert to the shadow (the sabbath) is to also reject the teachings of Christ regarding the Lord's Day. How could the apostle John call the first day of the week "the Lord's Day" unless the Lord Himself had instructed him to do so? Why has no one given this some serious thought? John could not have possibly concocted this on his own. And ever since the apostolic period, Christians met for worship on the Lord's Day, and made it their sabbath also (just as Jews worship on sabbath days).

John was in the spirit on the Day of the Lord, has nothing to do with Sunday or any day of the week. The Day of the Lord as stated in Revelation and most of the prophets are talking of the day of His return. I am still waiting for scripture references as to the apostolic period of Christians making Sunday their Sabbath.

 

[Nehemiah6]

John was in the spirit on the Day of the Lord, has nothing to do with Sunday or any day of the week. The Day of the Lord as stated in Revelation...

Perhaps once you figure out the difference between the Lord's Day and the Day of the Lord, we can look into other questions. Now read this from John Gill's Commentary and clear your mind of every doubt:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day

Not on the Jewish sabbath, which was now abolished, nor was that ever called the Lord's day, and had John meant that, he would have said on the sabbath day; much less the Jewish passover, but the first day of the week is designed; so the Ethiopic version renders it "on the first day"; and is so called just as the ordinance of the supper is called the Lord's supper, being instituted by the Lord, and the Lord's table, ( 1 Corinthians 10:21 ) ( 11:20 ) , and that because it was the day in which our Lord rose from the dead, ( Mark 16:9 ) ; and in which he appeared at different times to his disciples, ( John 20:19 John 20:26 ) , and which the primitive churches set apart for his worship and service, and on which they met together to hear the word, and attend on ordinances, ( Acts 20:7 ) ( 1 Corinthians 16:1 );

And Justin Martyr tells us, who lived within about fifty years after this time, that on the day called (th tou) (hliou hmera) , "Sunday", (by the Greeks,) the Christians met together in one place, and read the Scriptures, and prayed together, and administered the ordinance of the supper; and this, he adds, was the first day in which God created the World, and our Saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead;

Yea, Barnabas , the companion of the Apostle Paul, calls this day the eighth day, in distinction from the seventh day sabbath of the Jews, and which he says is the beginning of another world; and therefore we keep the eighth day, adds he, joyfully, in which Jesus rose from the dead, and being manifested, ascended unto heaven: and this day was known by the ancients by the name of "the Lord's day";

As by Ignatius , Irenaeus , Tertullian , Origen , and others; for it must be some day that was known by this name, otherwise it is mentioned to no purpose, because it would not be distinctive from others; for which reason it cannot merely design the day in which John saw this vision, because the Lord appeared on it to him, for this would not distinguish it from any other day.

Some have conjectured that this was not the weekly Lord's day observed by the Christians, but the anniversary of Christ's resurrection; and so the Ethiopians still call Easter "Schambatah Crostos", the sabbath of Christ: to understand it of the former is best.

Now, though John was driven from the house and worship of God, and could not join with the saints in the public worship of that day; yet he was employed in spiritual contemplations and exercises, and was under a more than ordinary influence of the Spirit of God; and his spirit or soul was wholly intent upon, and taken up with divine and spiritual things, with visions and representations that were made unto his mind, which he perceived in his spirit, and not with the organs of his body; he was in an ecstasy of spirit, and knew not scarcely whether he was in the body or out of it:

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

John 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Psalm 199:105
Thy word(Torah) is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psalm 119:105 "word"(H1697) is dabar, not torah.

Torah is H8451. Torah is in the OT 219 times and the KJV translates it "law" every single time.

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

well, there is a lot of false teaching in this thread by what Paul would call judaizers , trying to convince others that you have to keep the law/ Sabbath to be saved.

so, if you preach salvation by grace and faith through Christ., you are going to upset them. watch. they will attack what I said here, claim they DO believe in Jesus, but them jump back into law/sabbath keeping.

I have not seen anyone say you had to keep the sabbath to be saved. Which post was it? I would like to see and comment on that. Thanks in advance.

 

[beta]

Perhaps once you figure out the difference between the Lord's Day and the Day of the Lord, we can look into other questions. Now read this from John Gill's Commentary and clear your mind of every doubt:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day

Not on the Jewish sabbath, which was now abolished, nor was that ever called the Lord's day, and had John meant that, he would have said on the sabbath day; much less the Jewish passover, but the first day of the week is designed; so the Ethiopic version renders it "on the first day"; and is so called just as the ordinance of the supper is called the Lord's supper, being instituted by the Lord, and the Lord's table, ( 1 Corinthians 10:21 ) ( 11:20 ) , and that because it was the day in which our Lord rose from the dead, ( Mark 16:9 ) ; and in which he appeared at different times to his disciples, ( John 20:19 John 20:26 ) , and which the primitive churches set apart for his worship and service, and on which they met together to hear the word, and attend on ordinances, ( Acts 20:7 ) ( 1 Corinthians 16:1 );

And Justin Martyr tells us, who lived within about fifty years after this time, that on the day called (th tou) (hliou hmera) , "Sunday", (by the Greeks,) the Christians met together in one place, and read the Scriptures, and prayed together, and administered the ordinance of the supper; and this, he adds, was the first day in which God created the World, and our Saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead;

Yea, Barnabas , the companion of the Apostle Paul, calls this day the eighth day, in distinction from the seventh day sabbath of the Jews, and which he says is the beginning of another world; and therefore we keep the eighth day, adds he, joyfully, in which Jesus rose from the dead, and being manifested, ascended unto heaven: and this day was known by the ancients by the name of "the Lord's day";

As by Ignatius , Irenaeus , Tertullian , Origen , and others; for it must be some day that was known by this name, otherwise it is mentioned to no purpose, because it would not be distinctive from others; for which reason it cannot merely design the day in which John saw this vision, because the Lord appeared on it to him, for this would not distinguish it from any other day.

Some have conjectured that this was not the weekly Lord's day observed by the Christians, but the anniversary of Christ's resurrection; and so the Ethiopians still call Easter "Schambatah Crostos", the sabbath of Christ: to understand it of the former is best.

Now, though John was driven from the house and worship of God, and could not join with the saints in the public worship of that day; yet he was employed in spiritual contemplations and exercises, and was under a more than ordinary influence of the Spirit of God; and his spirit or soul was wholly intent upon, and taken up with divine and spiritual things, with visions and representations that were made unto his mind, which he perceived in his spirit, and not with the organs of his body; he was in an ecstasy of spirit, and knew not scarcely whether he was in the body or out of it:

I see you mention 'rising from the dead and ascending to heaven as 'one and the same event'...and this is where people have got it wrong !!!
It is NOT the same event on the same day ! IF they were to study scripture CAREFULLY they would see that...but they have fallen for the FALSE teaching by the ROMAN church RCC setting up THEIR OWN worship day.

True, Jesus ascended to heaven on sunday (just like the Sheaf was lifted up on the first day of the week) to present Himself to the Father. So even as this was CORRECT He did NOT rise from the dead on sunday but just BEFORE sunset on the Sabbath....He was already risen early sunday morning and was NOT recognised even by Mary his most devout follower who thought Jesus was the Gardener. Scripture tells us the exact TIMELINE if only paople would believe....AND THEIR UNbelief IS COSTING THEM THE TRUTH....with far reaching consequences !

 

[gb9]

I see you mention 'rising from the dead and ascending to heaven as 'one and the same event'...and this is where people have got it wrong !!!
It is NOT the same event on the same day ! IF they were to study scripture CAREFULLY they would see that...but they have fallen for the FALSE teaching by the ROMAN church RCC setting up THEIR OWN worship day.

True, Jesus ascended to heaven on sunday (just like the Sheaf was lifted up on the first day of the week) to present Himself to the Father. So even as this was CORRECT He did NOT rise from the dead on sunday but just BEFORE sunset on the Sabbath....He was already risen early sunday morning and was NOT recognised even by Mary his most devout follower who thought Jesus was the Gardener. Scripture tells us the exact TIMELINE if only paople would believe....AND THEIR UNbelief IS COSTING THEM THE TRUTH....with far reaching consequences !

please stop telling lies. one more time, jews kept time from sunset to sunset. so, Jesus died on thur. afternoon. ( 1 ), all through the Sabbath, ( 2 ), Sabbath ends at sunset sat. , then night, which Jesus rose, ( 3 ), and then , " at dawn on the first day of the week", the women came to the Tomb.

please accept this truth