A text that has me puzzled

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TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#1
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#2
Well, we know God isn't evil.

So, there are two spots in the text which create the conflict, and either of them could be interpreted different ways.

1. We look into the different ways a spirit could be said to be evil.
2. We look into different ways in which it could be "from the lord."

And those options are all visible just from the initial verse, without even looking at the the rest of the passage.


I'm sure plenty of commentators have dug into this one.
It shouldn't be hard to reconcile.

.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#3
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
here’s another passage, spirit of distress

1 Samuel 16:14
After the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, a spirit of distress from the LORD began to torment him.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#4
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
Perhaps it would make more sense that the Lord "took" an evil spirit, and commanded it to take control of Saul?
Which would indeed indicate that it (the authority) came from the Lord. I mean, the Lord does have authority over evil spirits? Right?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#5
It’s possible a mistranslation of evil, spirit of adversity, calamity etc.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#6
It’s possible a mistranslation of evil, spirit of adversity, calamity etc.
Ya? Could be. Think it more a misunderstanding of Hebrew "slang", sometimes called "Hebraism's." Which today, would be more like chat room short hand, or such. Which say much more then is actually written.
 

Locoponydirtman

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#7
רַע rǎʿ badly made, of small worth, poor; contemptible, evil, reprobate; (subst.) evil, wicked.
according to logos Greek and Hebrew lexicon.


Youngs literal translation says a sad spirit, which could be like depression.

Why is it difficult to think that God would send a bad spirit to torment a wicked man. Saul chose to do evil and then refused to repent.
He grew in his jealousy, and hatred and continually tried to kill David who God had anointed to replace him.
its not different than those today who are given over to a reprobate mind, according to Romans 1:28.
 

Locoponydirtman

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#8
bad, unpleasant, giving pain, unhappiness, misery: ימים רעים evil days (of trial and hardship) Genesis 47:9(P) Proverbs 15:15; עִנְיָן רע Ecclesiastes 1:13; Ecclesiastes 5:13; עִנְיַןEcclesiastes 4:8, compare Ecclesiastes 2:17; Ecclesiastes 9:3; הַמַּעֲשֶׂה הָרָעEcclesiastes 4:3; הדבר הרע evil reportExodus 33:4 (J), so דִּבָּה רָעָה Genesis 37:2 (JE) Numbers 14:37 (P), שׁם רעDeuteronomy 22:14,19; Nehemiah 6:13, שְׁמוּעָה רָעָה Jeremiah 49:23; Psalm 112:7; of things: painful discipline Proverbs 15:10, evil occurrence 1 Kings 5:18, evil (-bringing) net Ecclesiastes 9:12, instruments Isaiah 32:7: כל הדבר הרע Joshua 23:15 (D) all evil (injurious) things; רַע it is bad, harmful Isaiah 3:11Jeremiah 2:19; of speech, דבּר, רעאו טוב Genesis 24:50 (J) in proverb, speak bad or good = anything at all, מטוב עד רע Genesis 31:24,29 (E), לְמֵרָע ועד טוב2 Samuel 13:22, of the divine spirit as producing an ecstatic state of frenzy and violence 1 Samuel 16:14,15,16,23; 1 Samuel 18:10; 1 Samuel 19:9 (see רוּח9).

According to Strong's concordance.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
Ultimately all spirit beings -- good or evil -- are totally in the hands of God.

As God allowed the evil spirit being known as Satan to devastate Job (without killing him), God sent an evil spirit to Saul to influence him to hate David. But Saul had already opened himself up to evil influences. This is similar to Satan influencing David to number Israel (contrary to God's commandment), and for which he paid a heavy price. In neither case were they possessed by evil spirits or demons.

And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon* Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

*Strong's Concordance
el: to, into, towards
Original Word: אֵל
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: el
Phonetic Spelling: (ale)
Definition: to, into, towards


As you can see the Hebrew word el translated as *upon* in the KJV can mean one of three things, not necessarily *into*.

If Christians are not careful they can open themselves up to the influence of evil spirits and Satan. However for those within whom the Holy Spirit resides, evil spirits can enter and take possession (as some falsely teach).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#10
However for those within whom the Holy Spirit resides, evil spirits can enter and take possession (as some falsely teach).
Correction. That word "can" should be "cannot".
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#12
רַע rǎʿ badly made, of small worth, poor; contemptible, evil, reprobate; (subst.) evil, wicked.
according to logos Greek and Hebrew lexicon.


Youngs literal translation says a sad spirit, which could be like depression.

Why is it difficult to think that God would send a bad spirit to torment a wicked man. Saul chose to do evil and then refused to repent.
He grew in his jealousy, and hatred and continually tried to kill David who God had anointed to replace him.
its not different than those today who are given over to a reprobate mind, according to Romans 1:28.
I don't "think" the OP was coming at the "angle" of God sending an evil, spirit.
Just said "he/she was puzzled" by the verse posted, as it was written.
 
Aug 21, 2019
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#13
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

The "evil spirit" is satan. He came from the presence of the LORD (see 1 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 18, and Job 1 & 2; 1 Samuel 16:14-15), in requiring permission to have access to Saul (Luke 22:31). Saul had rejected the Holy Spirit (1 Samuel 15:11), and so God gave him over to that which Saul desired.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
1 Samuel 19:9 One day an evil spirit from the Lord took control of Saul. He was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was there, playing his harp.
here is a list of all the instances of the word ra' which is translated 'evil' in that verse in NIV

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7451.htm

so you can see how it is used elsewhere
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#15
IMO Saul was calling for the death of David, then Jonathan, his son approaches him wanting his father to cancel out this wicked deed he was plotting. In this frame of mind then, he sits with David as David plays worshipping the Lord. Worship can bring two reactions, one would be to repent by being convicted, but the other might aggravate, which I believe happened because he tries to nail David with his javelin. So it was aggravation from the worship of the Lord that brought this sudden move to kill.

Our English in the KJV might need some tweaking. 😇
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#17
Evil spirits can not take over a person in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. The Spirit of God had left Saul at this time and David was announced.
Where is the evidence that people were indwelt by the Holy Spirit in the Hebrew Scriptures.
 

TheLearner

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#18
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them .
Psalm 78:49 KJVA

"And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord : I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ra´moth–gil´e-ad? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him , and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1 Kings 22:19‭-‬23 KJVA

"The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isaiah 19:14 KJVA

"There be spirits that are created for vengeance, which in their fury lay on sore strokes; in the time of destruction they pour out their force, and appease the wrath of him that made them.
Ecclesiasticus 39:28 KJVA

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

2 Chronicles 18:21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'How?' 21"He said, 'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lying-spirit.html
 

Locoponydirtman

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Oct 9, 2018
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#19
Where is the evidence that people were indwelt by the Holy Spirit in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.
1 Samuel 16:13‭-‬14 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1sa.16.13-14.NASB
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#20
Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.
1 Samuel 16:13‭-‬14 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1sa.16.13-14.NASB
That does not say the Holy Spirit indwelt David, nor Samuel.