A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

[PeterJens]

My problem with all the HG crowd.

The real question that shows up everything, "Is your relationship with God a living thing?"

See, Here you are slandering

THE HG Group would says, The relationship with God is the most important thing after salvation. To the salvation is a relationship. God is our abba, We are his adopted children.

So please. Stop lying, and slandering, then claiming you do not do it.

The above statement is a lie. I have not slandered anyone, or lied, I have just
stated my problem. As I said before you lie all the time.

The real question that shows up everything, "Is your relationship with God a living thing?"

A living thing has life in it. A living thing can die. A living thing has give and take.

So for all your claims of superiority fall before this reality.
So my friend who lies and slanders so much, I did not say what you believed or even how,
I simply said the reality of a living relationship shows up the truth about spirituality.

Your spirit is so full of emnity you do not know when you create it all by yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok, How slanderous is Peter?

Here is proof.

Here is my post.

You did not understand what I was saying. I claimed the tax collector was the grace believer.
And I am not the one who says i trust in God alone and love my sin, It is the legalists who claim we say this..

Yet you will notice, As he always does, Peter cut up my quote, and made it sound like I said something else.

i trust in God alone and love my sin

Yet he continues, By saying he is not the one slandering, I am.

[
Lying like the above statement is just ludicrous and show the shallowness of the slander
and distortions these people hold inside themselves.

Then, Since he cut my post. and did not read it (like he is continually accused rightly so I may add) and even try to understand what I said, He further slanders by saying this.

People do not love sin, they are slaves to it. The HG claim is you cannot be free from it,
it is merely their as a reminder of your need for Christ.

I did not say people love sin, I said legalist use the excuse against grace believers that they love sin, All one has to do is look in the chatroom and they will see it, Over and over, Easy grace, Easy believism, Greasy Grace, Hypergrace. It all means the same, It is people who love there sin who do not want to change their lives, so they claim to have faith in God, and claim OSAS because of that faith, But they do not see or feel the need to repent, To change, To be obedient to Gods word.

Those are the accusations against us, Peter may not make them all. But I was not talking about peter in a sense, I said legalists (in General)

so if you want to sit there with a conscious and say you are not slandering me,, Then I have to question if you have a conscious at all..

As to the rest of your post.

But to face this reality is too hard, because it admits failure, which emotionally is hard and
a place you do not want to go. So the focus is always on Jesus's victory and imputed
righteousness. But that does not deal with the belief they are continually sinning and missing
what they should be.

You miss the point peter. If you took Gods standard, and not your own, You would feel this way to. We do have victory over sin, We are nothing like we were before we came to Christ. We see victory every day. But in the same token, We know we have not arrived to perfection yet, So we keep gringing, we keep moving forward, we keep running the race.

Only legalism can take us down, because legalism forces us to admit we fail, and thus why bother, or we must water down the law. so we can lie to ourselves and think we have arrived (see Pharisee) which makes us proud, judgmental religious zealots. who may have a form of godliness, but in reality have no godliness whatsoever, just self rightiousness.

And so not surprisingly the doctrine comes, do not be sin aware but God aware.

Yep. This is what God says, if I go on thinking about sin all the time, and not God, When do I have time to serve others? Serve God, I am always self focused, God tells us to get our minds off self. and on to him.. Why can't you see this?

Paul would rather say this

Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Rom 12:3

Ah, You mean think like a HG or Grace believer (whatever you want to call them) Thinking not highly about yourself like the legalist, But being sobor of judgment, A humble servant who still needs God.

Now if Paul thought people were continually being caught in sin and condemnation
he would not have written the above comments. When the corithians where in sin
he wrote

Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1 Cor 5:8

Now in all sincerity lying has just got to stop if you claim to follow Jesus.
What is being said is simple and open and honest. So I would hope if you know Jesus
at all you will be able to do this. Or has even this passed you by?

lol, You do not get it peter.. You do not try to understand people. People have explained it to you so many times, But you think you know what everyone else believes.

Grace does not teach we go around continually being caught in sin, It teaches that we should seek the things of the spirit, and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. But do not think to highly of yourself. But be sober in your judgment, because you still need grace (your not perfect)

Its not hard.. All one has to do is open up and listen minus there pre conceived ideas of what they think others are saying.

 

[FreeNChrist]

If good works are produced because of salvation, then it is not works for salvation. But I know you guys will try your best to misrepresent this, as you have in the past, and still do even today.

Right, but that's not what you said. It is though exactly what those you rail against have been saying right along. That good works are the fruit of our salvation, not the means to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

My problem with all the HG crowd.

The real question that shows up everything, "Is your relationship with God a living thing?"





Amen...it is because we have a living relationship with our Lord that we stand against anything that will try to nullify the work that Christ has already done - like a works-based salvationists doctrine or living from humanistic philosophy. It denies Christ's work and Person. It is a perversion of the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

We believe that in knowing Christ - we will have the fruit of His life which will manifest in our behavior while on this earth. The opposite of this belief is believing that "if I do good things" then I will know Christ. That is religion and it is totally backwards from the gospel.

there we have three grace believers (you, Cee, and myself) agree with peter that the a relationship with God is one of the most important things.

Do we think he will repent and say he is sorry for misjudging us?

We can always hope.

 

[JGIG]

The brood of vipers and serpents are those who are of the serpents seed, those who do the lusts of their father the Devil= seed of evil doers, hypocrites, workers of iniquity, sons of Belial, and many liars and deceivers, even worldly and carnal false teachers who come in the name of Christ but are really of the spirit of this world, and of the Prince of this world, much like Joseph Prince.

You haven't actually ever watched Joseph Prince, have you . . . just read what others have written about him . . .

Liars and deceivers are on that list you wrote above . . . uh oh . . .

___________________________________________

I wrote the following elsewhere here at CC regarding the slander and flurry of paranoia that some have about Joseph Prince:

The thing about false teachers is this: They are a dime-a-dozen. In order for the Body to be protected, She needs to know what Truth is, so the primary goal at JGIG is to build believers up in who they are in Christ so that when a falsehood comes across their path, they'll readily recognize and reject it.

If more believers were focused on building each other up and spurring each other on to maturity, less sheep would be getting fleeced and the false teachers would have far fewer vulnerable folks to take advantage of.

I do know one thing: Scaring the sheep does nothing to EQUIP them. It only makes them suspicious and untrusting of everyone and everything. Many drop out of fellowship altogether because they come to believe there is no safe place; no good churches out there. It's a sad state of affairs where segments of the Body are more fearful and neurotic than the world we're supposed to be ministering to!


I don't ascribe to the 'name it claim it' stereotypical health and wealth WOF paradigm.

That said, I don't reject that God does heal and does bless us because He loves us and in order for us to bless others, either, and often does so in unexplainable ways.

I listen to teachers who are on both sides of that fence - you can go to the Media Page on my site and read through teachers that I recommend who do an excellent job of communicating the Gospel. I have a short write-up about each teacher with what I like and if there are any caveats I think need to be given. Any disagreements I have with any of them are far outweighed by the good fruit of their ministries and the overall sound teaching that they offer.

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

​

--> Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others
​

​

--> Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)
​

​

--> Joseph Prince's income is from his books
​

​

--> There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach
​

​

--> Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.
​

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince.

Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down.

Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff. Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.
_____________________________________________

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

​

• 
  [*=1]Who Christ is
  [*=1]What He came to do
  [*=1]What that actually accomplished, and
  [*=1]What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ.

Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far .

Grace and peace,
-JGIG​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The above statement is a lie. I have not slandered anyone, or lied, I have just
stated my problem. As I said before you lie all the time.

The real question that shows up everything, "Is your relationship with God a living thing?"

A living thing has life in it. A living thing can die. A living thing has give and take.

So for all your claims of superiority fall before this reality.
So my friend who lies and slanders so much, I did not say what you believed or even how,
I simply said the reality of a living relationship shows up the truth about spirituality.

Your spirit is so full of emnity you do not know when you create it all by yourself.

Yep. That's why I thought, No repentance.

You said your problem was with HG, Then you mentioned the relationship aspect. How else could one interpret you other than to understand that HG croud does not believe in the relationship aspect. If that's not what you said, Forgive me, but then please. try to clean up what your saying so people can understand.

 

[Gr8grace]

I don't know much about Joel Osteen, but you have to realize that speaking the whole gospel truth about repenting of sin and the lusts of the flesh and walking in righteousness is not going to be a very popular thing to those who just want to hear "good things" about their own sinful condition.

Where are you from? Because this is the message that IS popular. It is in our nature to "pull up our boot straps" and get better. And people absolutely love a routine and rituals to try to make themselves better. And most Churches are delivering what the people want.

That is why Grace is under such heavy attack(who would of ever thought Grace would become a bad word?!?)

The popular churches, the majority of churches, have people on a "program to get better" and grace peeks it's "ugly" little face in and upsets that whole apple cart of salvation they were following.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Right, but that's not what you said. It is though exactly what those you rail against have been saying right along. That good works are the fruit of our salvation, not the means to it.

Well you need to go back and reread all of what I have said instead of constantly trying to misrepresent what we have been saying all along.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You haven't actually ever watched Joseph Prince, have you . . . just read what others have written about him . . .

Liars and deceivers are on that list you wrote above . . . uh oh . . .

___________________________________________

I wrote the following elsewhere here at CC regarding the slander and flurry of paranoia that some have about Joseph Prince:

The thing about false teachers is this: They are a dime-a-dozen. In order for the Body to be protected, She needs to know what Truth is, so the primary goal at JGIG is to build believers up in who they are in Christ so that when a falsehood comes across their path, they'll readily recognize and reject it.

If more believers were focused on building each other up and spurring each other on to maturity, less sheep would be getting fleeced and the false teachers would have far fewer vulnerable folks to take advantage of.

I do know one thing: Scaring the sheep does nothing to EQUIP them. It only makes them suspicious and untrusting of everyone and everything. Many drop out of fellowship altogether because they come to believe there is no safe place; no good churches out there. It's a sad state of affairs where segments of the Body are more fearful and neurotic than the world we're supposed to be ministering to!


I don't ascribe to the 'name it claim it' stereotypical health and wealth WOF paradigm.

That said, I don't reject that God does heal and does bless us because He loves us and in order for us to bless others, either, and often does so in unexplainable ways.

I listen to teachers who are on both sides of that fence - you can go to the Media Page on my site and read through teachers that I recommend who do an excellent job of communicating the Gospel. I have a short write-up about each teacher with what I like and if there are any caveats I think need to be given. Any disagreements I have with any of them are far outweighed by the good fruit of their ministries and the overall sound teaching that they offer.

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

​

--> Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others
​

​

--> Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)
​

​

--> Joseph Prince's income is from his books
​

​

--> There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach
​

​

--> Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.
​

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince.

Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down.

Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff. Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.
_____________________________________________

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

​

• 
  [*=1]Who Christ is
  [*=1]What He came to do
  [*=1]What that actually accomplished, and
  [*=1]What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ.

Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far .

Grace and peace,
-JGIG​

Here is one false teaching I recently exposed by Prince---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...self-righteousness-instant-perfectionism.html

 

[FreeNChrist]

Well you need to go back and reread all of what I have said instead of constantly trying to misrepresent what we have been saying all along.

Actually no, I don't. But apparently, you do.

 

[Cee]

Okay awesome.

So your stance is we get in through belief, but stay in through belief and works?

I have issue with a few of your Scripture interpretations. Jesus said I never knew you. Not I knew you and you fell away. Other people have shown that "takes away" can be understood as "lifts up", but that's okay because I'm sure you have other Scriptures than those 2. You're the kind of guy who makes sure he has Scripture for what he believes which is admirable.

I believe that we do need to follow the Lord. I just don't think it happens through fear of losing salvation. I believe true righteousness comes from a thankful heart of being completely free. But we don't use this freedom to sin, but love one another.

Why do we love much? Because we have been forgiven much. So what I believe the issue of not following God isn't that we need more fear, but people actually need to know more about His love.

Not sinning in the NT is loving one another. Jesus says as you for the least of Mine you do for me. Sure we could scare people to following Jesus, but perfect love casts out fear. But the biggest issue I have is that this doesn't build the Church because according to Scripture the Church is rooted, grounded, and built up in love. And God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but love. So while fear might appear to be effective it's a substitute for genuine obedience.

We see this example in the older brother who was working, but didn't have relationship with the Father and thus the elder brother became jealous when the younger brother was rewarded without earning it.

I know your group believes one can never lose salvation no matter how much they sin, but Jesus said whosoever sins is a servant of sin and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. That means there is no "eternal security" for ongoing sinners. Remember, sin is also considered a work= "workers of iniquity." You are either workers of sin, or workers of righteousness, depending on which Master you serve and whose Spirit you are of.

No one here is preaching a works for salvation doctrine, that is a straw man distraction by those who hate to hear the words "do" or "follow" or "keep" or "abide" or "obedience". But Jesus clearly said to follow Him, abide in His words and doctrine, and do the Fathers will. Jesus also said every branch in Him that does not bear "fruit"=RIGHTEOUS WORKS he will take it away, it will wither and die. The end result of those "unfruitful" branches is to be removed from the Life of the Vine and to be cast off and be burned.

So though we our selves are not able to bear good fruit of our own power except we abide in the Life of the Vine= Christ, we are still expected to bear good fruit=works of righteousness, by being empowered by Christ. So clearly works matter, whether works of sin unto death, or works of righteousness unto Eternal Life through Christ our Lord.

Matthew 7:21-27 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

It is very clear in the above that Jesus was saying be a doer of His words and sayings, not just a hearer who does not.

 

[PeterJens]

Yep. That's why I thought, No repentance.

You said your problem was with HG, Then you mentioned the relationship aspect. How else could one interpret you other than to understand that HG croud does not believe in the relationship aspect. If that's not what you said, Forgive me, but then please. try to clean up what your saying so people can understand.

EG - This is the point, I did not read anything positive or negative into any group.
I just said a living relationship with God. I did not say it is the most important thing
or the least, I did not say anyone believed or did not believe in this.

I just wrote the statement. And why I did this because it spoke for itself.
You read in things rather than explore the thing itself.

You then responded to your own interpretation and called me a liar and slanderer.
You are so used to this, it is how you think, the framework of reference.

I know you do this and did this when we first met. Like a lamb to the slaughter I came.

This is called observational bias.

It also now shows what you are, 100%, no hiding, warts and all.

It also demonstrates saying I lie and slander comes off your words like water.
You do not really understand how flawed this makes you.

It is like seeing a road crash in slow motion, and you have all the moral high
ground, but it is just not there.

 

[Cee]

If you believe faith produces works, but doesn't keep us saved, but is evidence of what God wrought in us, I see no disagreement. I misunderstood your posts.

Bless you

Well you need to go back and reread all of what I have said instead of constantly trying to misrepresent what we have been saying all along.

 

[PeterJens]

How else could one interpret you other than to understand that HG croud does not believe in the relationship aspect.

This makes me laugh. You should pause to think. I know you are on automatic
confrontational pilot. I have seen you play this game for ages now.

I can think people are saying something stupid, but probably I have miss-understood
them.

And the reason I bring sentences out, because it bring emphasis to that point.
And you do not like me doing this, because it makes you look bad...

When a guy is coming at me all guns blazing, I am supposed to be putting everything
in its place etc. when it is all just a personal assault.

I know you, I know your approach and how dangerous your are, emotionally to me and
others. But this is what spiritual warfare is and you have lost.

So you lie and slander like eating food, shows what your heart is full of.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This makes me laugh. You should pause to think. I know you are on automatic
confrontational pilot. I have seen you play this game for ages now.

lol. You know what makes me laugh, I just posted a post which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you slandered words I said and have you even responded to that post? Did you even say you were sorry, or maybe you misunderstood me (like I at least attempted to do for you)

Yet you want to sit there all proud and say it is only ne, and you know my heart.

I have told you once, I will tell you again

1. You do not know me or my heart
2. You do not know my gospel (you think you d But every time you try to tell the world what I believe you are wrong)
3. You do not know what I think about God (again you think you do. But you are always wrong when you try to tell others)

So please. As I stated earlier, if you want respect. Learn to respect others. And stop telling them what they think, Slandering them, And for the love of God. Stop trying to point out sins you think others have done to you WHEN YOU REFUSE TO SEE SINS YOU HAVE DONE TO OTHERS or outright ignore them hoping they will go away.

You do it to yourself..

 

[JGIG]

Actually I did a little look into Joseph Princes teachings and found tons of errors in them. Even when I watch some of these videos posted by his followers, and copy pastes from their websites, and even listening to the beliefs of his followers I find constant errors in his teachings, which are contrary to the words of God and gospel of Jesus Christ.

His doctrine has alot of half truths in it, but half truths are not the whole Truth. A little leaven of lies can leaven the whole Truth.

You did a little, eh?

And since he disagrees with your Law-keeping bent he's wrong, is that it? I can understand why you would find 'tons of errors'. Well, even in his imperfections JP keeps pointing folks to Jesus and it's bearing a lot of good fruit. You keep pointing to the Law and it's bearing a lot of strife and division.

Again, hmmmmmm . . . .

-JGIG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For all the world to see

Originally Posted by PeterJens

My problem with all the HG crowd.

Peter says he has a real problem with the HG group. And they way it is written, He follows this up with what his real problem with them is.

The real question that shows up everything, "Is your relationship with God a living thing?"

So what is the problem? The HG group denys that the relationship with God is a living thing (like I responded and interpret it to say)

Or what? I see no other possible interpretation. As I said, If there is one, Forgive me, and try to explain yourself.

Otherwise, I will continue to assume I am right.

(see how it is done peter? )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You did a little, eh?

And since he disagrees with your Law-keeping bent he's wrong, is that it? I can understand why you would find 'tons of errors'. Well, even in his imperfections JP keeps pointing folks to Jesus and it's bearing a lot of good fruit. You keep pointing to the Law and it's bearing a lot of strife and division.

Again, hmmmmmm . . . .

-JGIG

remember also, All his "little research" as it seems was done on anti JP websites from biased people who are attacking him..

Like that is something we should hedge our bets on.

 

[JGIG]

Here is one false teaching I recently exposed by Prince---->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...self-righteousness-instant-perfectionism.html

NO, you didn't, you drew from a heresy-hunter's evaluation of what their perception is of what JP teaches.

I recently posted a thread about the process of fighting the good fight of faith, and how by the power of God's Spirit we can resist temptation and sin, and also bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, and also be purified in our hearts and minds by the same Spirit. But this thread like many of mine was met with great resistance and anger by those who follow a certain "cult" following and the teachings of Joseph Prince. Because I preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God I am usually falsely labeled as a "sinless perfectionist" or preaching D.I.Y. "self righteousness".

But here is the funny part, when looking through some of the false teachings of JP I found this quote of his....

What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching.

Yawn. False. Evidence that you haven't actually listened to/watched JP's actual teachings.

Basically JP's false teaching just says you need to have "right thinking" not that there is an actual spiritual transformation and rebirth that set's you free from sin and gives you the empowerment to purify your hearts and minds. His teaching is nothing more than declaring yourself as righteous, when in reality there was never a spiritual rebirth that took place.

JP preaches that when you believe on Jesus and receive His gifts of forgiveness, righteousness, and new life, that IS the rebirth. Freedom from sin follows along with the renewing of the mind - that's 'right thinking', agreeing with God!

So by not experiencing an actual rebirth in Christ that transform ones heart and mind, they just proclaim themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous".

You're completely lying about what JP preaches and building on your own (or someones else's) false premise and then refuting what you've fabricated.

I believe that's referred to as a straw man.

That my friends is the true definition of "self righteousness" when a person declares themselves to be something they truly are not, their evil works prove they are not made righteous in Christ.

If one is in Christ, they are righteous in Him. LOTS of Scripture to back that up. I need to go paint a bathroom so I won't take time to list them here. Check out Romans 3 and 5 and 2 Cor. 5 to start with.

EVERY believer struggles with sinning during their lifetime, and if they say they don't, they're liars, ha! Less and less do we struggle, as we mature in Christ, but it's not our works which provides righteousness in our lives, but the Work of Christ. And it is a gift, it is not earned. See Romans 5 for clarity on that!

Love this teaching which so clearly demonstrates the gift of forgiveness, which cleanses us so that we can be given the righteousness of God so that He can put His Life into us - and then He SEALS US with His Holy Spirit GUARANTEEING us unto the day of redemption for HIS glory (see Eph. 1)! Alleluia! \o/

• God’s Solution to Man’s Problem – Life! – Study notes available HERE.

For those who want to know the many deceptions of this false teacher, here is the link...Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

And there it is - your source.

Which lists a few heresies of its own in its critique of JP.

Not buying that you have actually spent any length of time actually listening to/watching JP. If you do choose to, who knows? Maybe you'll actually get a grasp on grace - or it will get a grasp on YOU \o/!

-JGIG

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If you believe faith produces works, but doesn't keep us saved, but is evidence of what God wrought in us, I see no disagreement. I misunderstood your posts.

Bless you

But it is prophesied that many would depart from the faith, and thus in doing so fall away from the faith= being unfruitful and eventually being cast forth as a dead branch and burned like Jesus said. But OSAS followers twist the meaning of that parable like alot of other verses to force their false doctrine to fit the doctrines of men. These are those who were once in Christ, once enlightened by the Holy Spirit but departed, and fell away as Heb 6:4-6 shows this fact also. OSAS doctrine is false, and one can in fact fall away from the faith and be lost. But the doctrines of men have blinded you and many others from seeing this very important warning and Truth.