Abomination of Desolation

[PlainWord]

Ad 33. The end of the 69th week

You still have one week left, when did that happen?

I covered this in post #105. I struggled with this "missing" week for years then read someone's work on it and it makes sense. We have to follow the angel talking to Daniel very closely.

v. 24 has the 70 weeks and it's the only place 70 weeks are mentioned. v. 24 lists items found in the Law thus the angel is, in a round about way, telling them how much longer they had under the Rabbinical system. Since this system was uniquely Jewish, it makes sense that the Jewish calendar was used. The math takes us to 32 AD, the last year animal sacrifices would be accepted. After the Cross the following year, the curtain was torn and the Rabbinical system was no longer recognized. This completes the lesson for the 70 weeks.

Quoting the Talmud, “Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ‘for the Lord’ did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored string [suspended in the Temple to show the acceptance of the pascal sacrifice] become white." According to Jewish tradition the scarlet cloth that was tied around horn of the scapegoat was said to turn white as a miraculous sign that the sacrifice for sin made by the other goat that was sacrificed was accepted by God. Thus the 70 weeks of v. 24 were complete.

v. 25-26 contains the 7 and 62 weeks. A totally different topic is in view, that being the Messiah, rather than the Law of v. 24. Whereas the Law was strictly Jewish, the Messiah was for the whole world. Why the angel breaks out 7 from the 62 is a mystery to me. Regardless, we are now just dealing with 69 weeks of years. As Bill Belichick would say, "We are on to Cincinnati." We aren't talking about the Law and the 70 weeks anymore. We are instead talking about the Messiah. Since Messiah was for the whole world, we use the world's solar calendar.

Regardless, no matter how you do the math, we get to the 25-36 AD time frame. We certainly don't get to 2019 AD.

 

[PlainWord]

for your information, their is all kinds of prophecy concerning at least a third temple.

I'll settle for one. Please cite chapter and verse.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

While this is not addressed to me, I will give you the answer. One must take this verse in its plain literal sense, but also understand the correct meaning of "week". The Hebrew word shabua is literally *a seven* or *a heptad*. Therefore it can be used for a week of seven days or a week of seven years.

In Daniel 9 it means a week of seven years, therefore seventy weeks means 490 years. Out of that 483 years have already been fulfilled until the crucifixion of Christ in AD 30 (when Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself). The final seven years are called "the 70th week of Daniel", and it is connected to (1) the reign of the Antichrist, (2) the Tribulation, and (3) the Great Tribulation. (All this is future, and has nothing to do with Roman armies).

In order to interpret Dan 9:27 we need to look at the context including v 26, and also include Dan 11:31:

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [Jesus Christ] be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [the Antichrist] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the [fake] covenant with many [Jews] for one week [seven years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation [the end of the Great Tribulation], and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

11: 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place [within the Holy Place] the abomination that maketh desolate.

So what we see here is that "the prince that shall come" (the Antichrist) will make a fake covenant with Israel for a period of seven years, during which he will seemingly allow the Jews to offer sacrifices and oblations in a future temple at Jerusalem. [Note: the word *strong* is not in the KJV, and therefore has been added].

The Antichrist will be given full powers over the earth by God for only 3 1/2 years (see Revelation 13, where you will find 42 months). He will therefore terminate this covenant at the end of 3 1/2 years, and cause the temple sacrifices to cease forcibly (And arms shall stand on his part) . Then he will place the image of the Beast within the Holy Place and demand that all the inhabitants of the world should worship this image, as well as the Beast, and Satan (Rev 13). This will be the pollution of the sanctuary. Thus it will become an abomination (a detestable thing) in the eyes if God, and trigger the desolations which will come upon the earth during the Great Tribulation.

We will note in Revelation 11 that there is a great earthquake, and one tenth of the city of Jerusalem is destroyed at the end of 3 1/2 years. That ties in with "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary". Meaning that their evil acts in connection with the temple will bring about this destruction. God is sovereign throughout all of this evil reign of the Antichrist, and this desecrated, polluted, idolatrous, and evil third temple will be destroyed at that time, and 7,000 men will die. But God will receive the glory that is His due.

You wrote this,
"9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [Jesus Christ] be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [the Antichrist] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

I am not sure I agree with your labeling of the antichrist here. Paul refers to the prince of the power of the air in Ephesians, which is satan. Perhaps this prince here is satan.

One has be extraordinarily careful in interpreting Daniel 9:27.

- Is Daniel 9:27 just referring to the prince?
- Is it just referring to the Messiah?
- Or is Daniel 9:27 referring to both the prince and the Messiah and you have to be very careful in determining which parts refer to the Messiah and which parts refer to the prince?

Is the one who makes a covenant for 7 years the prince or is it the Messiah? hmmm? Perhaps we should all carefully look at this.

 

[PlainWord]

An abomination which makes desolate is a holy place

Even jesus confirmed this when he said , when you see it staying in the holy place,

Outside the holy place is not the holy place

Jesus did not say, "holy of holies." Only the high priest may enter there once a year. A regular Jewish Christian would never get close enough to witness someone entering and being worshiped in the Holy of Holies.

This is the law of the temple: The whole area surrounding the mountaintop is most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple. (Ezek 43:12) Thus, all of the temple mount area was holy, any area inside the temple gates was considered holy. If you recall, no foreigner may enter the temple compound under penalty of death. Worshiping a foreign prince under his pagan standards and making a sacrifice to him inside the temple complex near the gate leading out would be considered a clear abomination. The fact that it was Titus who was next to desolate Jerusalem is all the proof you need.

Neither Jesus, nor Daniel would skip over the next desolation to discuss some hypothetical desolation thousands of years later. Just look at how Mat 24 begins. It was their temple and their Jerusalem in focus, not some distant temple and Jerusalem.

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

We know from Josephus, every last stone was removed. If you left before the war and came back after, Josephus says you would not even know where you were.

 

[KJV1611]

"Wing" is found in the YLT. Young's is the most literal translation. Your KJV says, "overspreading of abominations." I mostly use the NKJV which also says, "wing of abominations." I don't think it much matters, do you? Bad things were happening up there, a foreign leader had sacrifices made to him and he was worshiped on the temple mount inside the temple compound, a place no foreigner was allowed. This happened as the temple was burning.

I think it makes a huge difference because Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with anybody making sacrifices to a foreign leader or worshiping a foreign leader in the temple mount compound.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
Someone CONFIRMS a previous covenant. This is not a new covenant that he makes.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
In the middle of the 7 days the sacrifice and oblation caused to cease.

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,
And for the VASTNESS of ALL of the abominations committed, He (Christ) will make it (Earthly Jerusalem - The Jews) totally EMPTY. This IS NOT wrath nor destruction. This is a void or emptiness... USELESSNESS... Salt that has lost his savor. It's use less, worthless, empty. ALL THE WAY TO THE END.

and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
And that which was written of the prophets (the wrath of God) will be poured out upon the desolate (Earthly Jerusalem - The Jews). This is the wrath and this is AD 70.

 

[KJV1611]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The bolded part above is only saying that God will use the Jews and the earthly city of Jerusalem to accomplish the things in red. It IS NOT saying that the Jews and earthly Jerusalem would be destroyed DURING the 70 weeks.

Agree or no?

 

[tourist]

Ad 33. The end of the 69th week

You still have one week left, when did that happen?

I agree with you that there remains one week left of Daniel's prophecy.

 

[tourist]

for your information, their is all kinds of prophecy concerning at least a third temple.

Yes there is. The red heifer is alive and well and with pre-fab the temple can be rebuilt in a matter of months. I do believe that the temple must be built on the current site of the mosque on the Dome of the Rock. A few bulldozers can flatten it in an hour or two. No problem.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I covered this in post #105. I struggled with this "missing" week for years then read someone's work on it and it makes sense. We have to follow the angel talking to Daniel very closely.

v. 24 has the 70 weeks and it's the only place 70 weeks are mentioned. v. 24 lists items found in the Law thus the angel is, in a round about way, telling them how much longer they had under the Rabbinical system. Since this system was uniquely Jewish, it makes sense that the Jewish calendar was used. The math takes us to 32 AD, the last year animal sacrifices would be accepted. After the Cross the following year, the curtain was torn and the Rabbinical system was no longer recognized. This completes the lesson for the 70 weeks.

Quoting the Talmud, “Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ‘for the Lord’ did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored string [suspended in the Temple to show the acceptance of the pascal sacrifice] become white." According to Jewish tradition the scarlet cloth that was tied around horn of the scapegoat was said to turn white as a miraculous sign that the sacrifice for sin made by the other goat that was sacrificed was accepted by God. Thus the 70 weeks of v. 24 were complete.

v. 25-26 contains the 7 and 62 weeks. A totally different topic is in view, that being the Messiah, rather than the Law of v. 24. Whereas the Law was strictly Jewish, the Messiah was for the whole world. Why the angel breaks out 7 from the 62 is a mystery to me. Regardless, we are now just dealing with 69 weeks of years. As Bill Belichick would say, "We are on to Cincinnati." We aren't talking about the Law and the 70 weeks anymore. We are instead talking about the Messiah. Since Messiah was for the whole world, we use the world's solar calendar.

Regardless, no matter how you do the math, we get to the 25-36 AD time frame. We certainly don't get to 2019 AD.

There is no missing week, Its right there in the passage

The first 69 weeks are literally fulfilled. Which means we should take the 70th week literally also.

Gabriel told Daniel ofter the 69 weeks, events will occur. Which includes the destruction of the city and temple, Then a period, which is determined, we will see wars and desolation's which will be allowed to continue, until the beginning of the 70th week. When a future prince confirms a covenant for 1 week (the 70th week)

its all right there, Taken with Jesus words in matt 24 about the wars and rumors of wars, nations and kingdoms going against each other in wars.

THEN Jesus tells us that we (actually those alive at that time) will see an abomination of desolation set up in the HOLY place. marking a point in Daniels prophesy which is in the middle of the 70th week. And proclaims after this there will be great tribulation. Where in the end, Jesus will bring an end to gentile dominion and the final gentile kingdom (rome) us put down, As dan 2 says, the stone will be cast and destroy the statue,

At this time we are told. Israel will repent, and the 70 weeks has come to its conclusion, because her SIN has been completed. (made to end)

 

[garee]

He didn't need to place idols inside the temple. They were placed exactly where Daniel predicted, on the wing or outer edge. The gate to the temple fits perfectly.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.

I agree the week mentioned here is 7 years but it wasn't part of the first 7 X 70 as I explained above. Titus arrived with his father in March 67 AD. Three and a half years later, the Roman General Titus attacked Jerusalem. After the Romans had conquered much of the city many of the remaining Jewish rebels fled to the Temple. Upon setting the holy place on fire, the Roman army went into a frenzy slaughtering the Jewish refugees therein. With the Temple in flames, Josephus says that the Roman army then “brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. The abomination that causes desolation mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is the Roman Army with its idols, the ensigns, of Zeus, Caesar and Rome.

If this doesn't work for you, a historian, I forget which one, said Titus took a harlot into the holy of holys and had sex with her. Would that satisfy you?

The unseen way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing

The temple built with human hands is the center of idols .The Holy place of God is the unseen the place of faith. Never of this corrupted creation. God gave over the apostate Jews to do what they should not of.... install a Pagan temple as the holy place and not a shadow of it .

That period of time was used a parable. When Christ said it is finished it was the end, the reformation began, the veil was rent. What happened 70 years later has no bearing of the time of reformation . because of the reformation We are now under the restored form of government of Judges. Its what reformations do restore. (no king no temple) Wal by faith.

Hebrews 9:9-11 King James Version (KJV)The Holy Ghost this signifying, thatg: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'll settle for one. Please cite chapter and verse.

Zechariah 14:16-21

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the [i]punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.


20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

1. We have JESUS in Jerusalem
2. We have nations of the world coming to worship him there
3. We have penalty for the sin of not coming (ie, this is not heaven or the new Jerusalem)
4. And we have the "Lords house in Jerusalem"

And this all happens in the prophesy after the time of distress, where the gentiles are punished.. ie, the time of great tribulation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did not say, "holy of holies." Only the high priest may enter there once a year. A regular Jewish Christian would never get close enough to witness someone entering and being worshiped in the Holy of Holies.

This is the law of the temple: The whole area surrounding the mountaintop is most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple. (Ezek 43:12) Thus, all of the temple mount area was holy, any area inside the temple gates was considered holy. If you recall, no foreigner may enter the temple compound under penalty of death. Worshiping a foreign prince under his pagan standards and making a sacrifice to him inside the temple complex near the gate leading out would be considered a clear abomination. The fact that it was Titus who was next to desolate Jerusalem is all the proof you need.

Neither Jesus, nor Daniel would skip over the next desolation to discuss some hypothetical desolation thousands of years later. Just look at how Mat 24 begins. It was their temple and their Jerusalem in focus, not some distant temple and Jerusalem.

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

We know from Josephus, every last stone was removed. If you left before the war and came back after, Josephus says you would not even know where you were.

Jesus said holy place

there was only one holy place in Jerusalem.

It is quite simple. stop making it so difficult just take him at his word

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes there is. The red heifer is alive and well and with pre-fab the temple can be rebuilt in a matter of months. I do believe that the temple must be built on the current site of the mosque on the Dome of the Rock. A few bulldozers can flatten it in an hour or two. No problem.

well we know it will be rebuilt of that there is no issue

Mist likely your right, and that is part of the covenant the prince makes.. But this is all conjecture.. we may even find the dome of the rick is not the actual temple mount, It could be someplace else. But as you said, it could be completed in a matter of months (remember the temple itself is not the big, The ADDITIONS to the temple is what makes the temple so large..

Those can always be added later.

Everything is done,

 

[iamsoandso]

Jesus did not say, "holy of holies." Only the high priest may enter there once a year. A regular Jewish Christian would never get close enough to witness someone entering and being worshiped in the Holy of Holies.

This is the law of the temple: The whole area surrounding the mountaintop is most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple. (Ezek 43:12) Thus, all of the temple mount area was holy, any area inside the temple gates was considered holy. If you recall, no foreigner may enter the temple compound under penalty of death. Worshiping a foreign prince under his pagan standards and making a sacrifice to him inside the temple complex near the gate leading out would be considered a clear abomination. The fact that it was Titus who was next to desolate Jerusalem is all the proof you need.

Neither Jesus, nor Daniel would skip over the next desolation to discuss some hypothetical desolation thousands of years later. Just look at how Mat 24 begins. It was their temple and their Jerusalem in focus, not some distant temple and Jerusalem.

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

We know from Josephus, every last stone was removed. If you left before the war and came back after, Josephus says you would not even know where you were.

Matthew 24:15-28 ..If the AoD is the generals worshiping Titus then the AoD was set up after the temple was destroyed and not before. In what Jesus says in Matt.24:15-28 this would be the sign to flee but the siege of Jerusalem is over at the point in time the generals give their support to Titus. So in this the AoD(sign Jesus said is when to flee) is set up after they should have fled and not before like Jesus said.

Again the Jews who were in the temple revolted against Rome/Caesar and did not bow down and worship those standards the generals set up(they died instead) so then the ones who did worship this(Romans) won the war and the Jews lost. So if this is the AoD as you see it then the ones who worship the image win(pagans) and the ones who refuse to loose(Jews). This has been suggested in the past as the AoD but falls apart when the quotes from Josephus ae given and compared to Matthew 24:15-28...

 

[PlainWord]

Matthew 24:15-28 ..If the AoD is the generals worshiping Titus then the AoD was set up after the temple was destroyed and not before. In what Jesus says in Matt.24:15-28 this would be the sign to flee but the siege of Jerusalem is over at the point in time the generals give their support to Titus. So in this the AoD(sign Jesus said is when to flee) is set up after they should have fled and not before like Jesus said.

Again the Jews who were in the temple revolted against Rome/Caesar and did not bow down and worship those standards the generals set up(they died instead) so then the ones who did worship this(Romans) won the war and the Jews lost. So if this is the AoD as you see it then the ones who worship the image win(pagans) and the ones who refuse to loose(Jews). This has been suggested in the past as the AoD but falls apart when the quotes from Josephus ae given and compared to Matthew 24:15-28...

Let's not confuse the timing with the worshiping or the identity of what was abominable. The Roman armies caused the desolation. There can be no confusion about that. So, when did they first appear?

The first time was at the very beginning of the revolt. In the middle of Iyyar of A.D. 66, the Procurator Gessius Florus entered the holy city with the Roman army and killed 3,600 people in the Upper Marketplace of Jerusalem. This slaughter occurred just a couple days before a miraculous army was seen in the clouds (Michael v Satan perhaps) on the 21st of Iyyar of A.D. 66. The next occasion was during the Feast of Tabernacles of A.D. 66 when Cestius briefly besieged Jerusalem with the 12th Legion before mysteriously departing shortly thereafter. The final time in which the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem during the Jewish War was in A.D. 70 just before the fall of the city under Caesar Titus.

As warned in Luke 21:20-21, the presence of the Roman army and its ensigns (the abomination that causes desolation) outside of Jerusalem in Iyyar of A.D. 66 under Florus and perhaps later in Tishri of A.D. 66 under Cestius was a sign to the Christians in Jerusalem to flee the city. The great slaughter at the Upper Marketplace upon Florus’ entry into Jerusalem in Iyyar of A.D. 66 was the reason Jesus urged His people to immediately flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:16-18.

The same might be said concerning Cestius’ arrival at Jerusalem. After Cestius withdrew from the city, civil war and uprisings subsequently caused a catastrophic death toll in Jerusalem even before the arrival of Titus in A.D. 70. The violence following the times in which the Roman army arrived outside of Jerusalem under Florus and Cestius in A.D. 66 appears to be the reason Jesus warned His people in Matthew 24:16-18 and Luke 21:21 to immediately drop everything and flee the city after seeing this sign. I believe Christians seeing these armies outside of Jerusalem began to flee in Iyyar of A.D. 66 when seeing Florus’ army outside of Jerusalem while the rest fled in Tishri after seeing the Romans again surround Jerusalem under Cestius later that year.

 

[PlainWord]

Jesus said holy place

there was only one holy place in Jerusalem.

It is quite simple. stop making it so difficult just take him at his word

Did you read Ezek 43:12?????

 

[PlainWord]

Jesus invoked Daniel so what did Daniel know? What book comes before Daniel?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you read Ezek 43:12?????

yep

Israel was living in sin the whole tie Jesus walked the earth, the high priest was a false teacher, Yet Jesus still called that his house.

So another temple being built. here they are still worshiping in sin is no sweat to believe in.

There is only ONE holy place which can be made unclean with an abomination, and thats the Holy of Holy's. or most holy place

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus invoked Daniel so what did Daniel know? What book comes before Daniel?

Jesus invoked Gabriel's words which Daniel wrote down

So use jesus words to help you interpret what Gabriel said. I am sure jesus knows what he (Gabriel) meant.

 

[louis]

Dan 9 concerns daniels people (Israel) His holy City (jerusalem) and his temple (the temple in Jerusalem)

Anything outside of this context is taking the passage and twisting it to mean something not in context.

Jesus told the people. When you see the abomination (unclean thing) which makes desolate. standing in the holy place. let the reader understand...

It is a physical, Literal event which through prophecy marks the beginning of a great event which will be of major significance to the people who are living at that time, it is a warning, given By God, and fortold so the people warned can know and understand what is about to happen.

so sorry, I can not buy into your spiritualization of the passage.

Dan 9 concerns Daniel's people (true Israel), not physical unbelieving Israel. The Lord's holy temple is in his sanctuary, who are His people (true spiritual Israel). My spiritual perspective corroborates the Word.