About the book of Job
- Thread starter JLG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
YES !
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/refiner
a person, device, or substance that removes impurities, sediment, or other unwanted matter from something
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/refiner
a person, device, or substance that removes impurities, sediment, or other unwanted matter from something
https://www.mrt.com/lifestyles/religion/article/God-uses-heat-to-refine-us-show-his-reflection-7438400.php
Recently I went through a low time and found myself struggling in several areas of my life. As pressures mounted, I did what I am prone to do. I began to focus on how to change my circumstances. My brain began to be filled with ideas, plans and schemes designed to get me to a more comfortable place. And, as usually happens when I try to manipulate my circumstances, I just got more frustrated and less content.
It seems to me most of us respond to the issues we face in very similar ways -- our focus becomes all about changing the circumstances that are troubling us. Even our prayer life can be all about asking God to fix something to make our lives more pleasant. But while we think our efforts to change our circumstances will make our lives better, the truth is we just end up exhausted and no more at peace than when we started. Instead of working so hard to achieve a change in our circumstances, maybe what we need more is a change in our perspective.
Recently my pastor defined wisdom, which God promises us if we ask for it (James 1:5), as a change from a human perspective to God's perspective. To have God's perspective on the difficult things in our lives would be to see those things through the lens of God's design, purpose and way. God never promises life will be easy, but his word says he works everything to good for those who love him. If we saw every negative situation in our lives as a means for God to work good in us, maybe we wouldn't focus so much on manipulating our circumstances to feel better. Maybe, instead, we would begin to see our issues, trials and struggles as opportunities for God to do something transformational in our lives. And maybe the prospect of God at work in our lives would change us at a level deeper than the surface issues that so often derail us, even when our circumstances never change.
The Bible often uses the imagery of gold being refined as a picture of what God does in our lives. Gold, when extracted from the earth, does not look like gold we find in a jewelry store. In fact, it is not always recognizable due to the impurities that mar its appearance. Yet, for the person searching for it, the ugliest lump of gold is of great value, and the potential for beauty is evident. We, as men and women, are similar to those lumps of unrefined gold. The sacrifice of God's son to reconcile us back to relationship with God shows just how much he values us -- even while we are lost and separated from him. God sees us not full of impurity, but full of potential. He, in the refining imagery, is the refiner and we are the lump of unrefined gold, full of impurity and full of potential beauty.
Recently I went through a low time and found myself struggling in several areas of my life. As pressures mounted, I did what I am prone to do. I began to focus on how to change my circumstances. My brain began to be filled with ideas, plans and schemes designed to get me to a more comfortable place. And, as usually happens when I try to manipulate my circumstances, I just got more frustrated and less content.
It seems to me most of us respond to the issues we face in very similar ways -- our focus becomes all about changing the circumstances that are troubling us. Even our prayer life can be all about asking God to fix something to make our lives more pleasant. But while we think our efforts to change our circumstances will make our lives better, the truth is we just end up exhausted and no more at peace than when we started. Instead of working so hard to achieve a change in our circumstances, maybe what we need more is a change in our perspective.
Recently my pastor defined wisdom, which God promises us if we ask for it (James 1:5), as a change from a human perspective to God's perspective. To have God's perspective on the difficult things in our lives would be to see those things through the lens of God's design, purpose and way. God never promises life will be easy, but his word says he works everything to good for those who love him. If we saw every negative situation in our lives as a means for God to work good in us, maybe we wouldn't focus so much on manipulating our circumstances to feel better. Maybe, instead, we would begin to see our issues, trials and struggles as opportunities for God to do something transformational in our lives. And maybe the prospect of God at work in our lives would change us at a level deeper than the surface issues that so often derail us, even when our circumstances never change.
The Bible often uses the imagery of gold being refined as a picture of what God does in our lives. Gold, when extracted from the earth, does not look like gold we find in a jewelry store. In fact, it is not always recognizable due to the impurities that mar its appearance. Yet, for the person searching for it, the ugliest lump of gold is of great value, and the potential for beauty is evident. We, as men and women, are similar to those lumps of unrefined gold. The sacrifice of God's son to reconcile us back to relationship with God shows just how much he values us -- even while we are lost and separated from him. God sees us not full of impurity, but full of potential. He, in the refining imagery, is the refiner and we are the lump of unrefined gold, full of impurity and full of potential beauty.
-
1
- Show all
I like this paragraph and « the imagery of gold being refined ». We must take advantage of any situation we face to improve ourselves and get closer to God. It means we also need to think about our future present and past life. There is always something to learn and it must help us to go ahead and get older with more experience of life and thus getting older is a fantastic process that is « a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end » and I would say a positive one because we have a share in it and we must always have a share in it which is a different way from what society says !
Sometimes we expect God simply zaps the junk out of our lives when we enter into relationship with him. But that is not the refining process -- not for gold, and not for us. God loves us too much to leave us as we are because our impure selves cannot reflect clearly all of who he is, and our fullest joy is realized in the growing brilliance of our reflection of him in our lives. The refining process is hot. To refine gold, heat must be applied to force the impurities to the surface. As the impurities rise, they are removed and more heat is applied. This process continues and continues, heat is applied and re-applied, until the gold is pure. The refiner knows the gold is pure when he looks into the gold and sees his clear reflection.
For us there is a difference, maybe a big one, that is our refining has no end, it is a never-ending story and it is hard work but the more we get through it the more we go ahead !
For us there is a difference, maybe a big one, that is our refining has no end, it is a never-ending story and it is hard work but the more we get through it the more we go ahead !
God works a similar process in us. Our lives are a process of God applying heat and exposing our weaknesses, our faults, our struggles and our impurities. Heat is hot and uncomfortable, but if we submit to the heat, we are day by day transformed into his likeness. The process ends when we meet Jesus face to face, and he looks into our faces and sees his clear reflection.
I disagree with the last sentence because there is no end to this process and we live few years so this process will keep on and on !
I disagree with the last sentence because there is no end to this process and we live few years so this process will keep on and on !
So often we seek to place blame on someone or something for the difficult issues in our lives. But things we attribute to evil may well be heat applied by the refiner of our souls -- heat full of purpose and heat that ultimately will result in purity and joy. Illness may be designed to bring fear to the surface so God can build trust. Financial difficulty may raise materialism to the surface. Loneliness may raise idolatry to the surface. Relational struggles may raise bitterness or unforgiveness to the surface. Disappointment at work may raise pride to the surface. The heat and trials of our lives are not evidence God is cruel or has left you, but ultimately are evidence of how much God values you and his desire for you to be all he designed you to be. He values us as he finds us but he loves us too much to leave us as he finds us.
For sure we will change through the process but I don’t know if we can speak of « purity and joy », I would say changes which have important consequences in what we are and we must go ahead and use what we learn to help others when it’s possible !
For sure we will change through the process but I don’t know if we can speak of « purity and joy », I would say changes which have important consequences in what we are and we must go ahead and use what we learn to help others when it’s possible !
When life gets hot and difficult, human tendency is to run from the heat. When a molten substance is removed from the heat, it hardens. When we run from the heat, our lives and hearts harden, our impurities set and we simply stagnate. As my counselor said years ago, the heat that softens the hardness of our hearts hurts, but that pain is a sign of life. It is God's way of making us holy so we can share in the peaceful fruit of righteousness. God tells us in Hebrews 12 it will seem difficult for the moment, but it always yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. If most of us were honest, we would trade much in our life for a sense of true peace. Peace does not primarily mean we have peaceful circumstances. Peace is realizing God is in control of all of the pieces of our lives, and even the difficult pieces have an important place in the bigger picture of God's plan for us. It is in peace we find rest. There is joy -- and peace -- and rest -- in the refining process.
Sometimes it is so hard and it lasts so long for so many years so that you may get lost in the process and it is difficult to collect the pieces of our being and put them together ! And the source of the pain went away a long time ago but its echo is still striking us as if it would never stop so we must keep fighting all our lives with it ! Of course, fighting or striving mean staying alive but how hard it is ! We must get used to it because it never goes away and we must learn how to reduce the suffering connected to it ! So we may get stronger but at the same time weaker because the only way to survive is to keep fighting because if we stop for a while it may be the end of the story !
Sometimes it is so hard and it lasts so long for so many years so that you may get lost in the process and it is difficult to collect the pieces of our being and put them together ! And the source of the pain went away a long time ago but its echo is still striking us as if it would never stop so we must keep fighting all our lives with it ! Of course, fighting or striving mean staying alive but how hard it is ! We must get used to it because it never goes away and we must learn how to reduce the suffering connected to it ! So we may get stronger but at the same time weaker because the only way to survive is to keep fighting because if we stop for a while it may be the end of the story !
As God changes your perspective, you will begin to see less of what is wrong and more of what evidences God's refining work in your life -- God bringing weaknesses to the surface so you ultimately will be stronger, more like him and more reflective of him. God's plan is not to make you more independent or more self-sufficient. His plan is to make you holy and dependent servants of the refiner who desires to give us lives far beyond what we ever could imagine. In the heat, we see his power displayed and we become vessels for his glory and reflectors of his image to the world -- and that is a life worth living, no matter your circumstances!
I like « that is a life worth living, no matter your circumstances! » and life is a precious gift even if sometimes people get lost in the process and commit suicide. It is sad when it happens ! And we must be grateful when we survive ! And above all when we can turn a troublesome life into a useful tool for others then we know that life is worth living and we must keep helping us by helping others and get stronger and weaker at the same time !
I like « that is a life worth living, no matter your circumstances! » and life is a precious gift even if sometimes people get lost in the process and commit suicide. It is sad when it happens ! And we must be grateful when we survive ! And above all when we can turn a troublesome life into a useful tool for others then we know that life is worth living and we must keep helping us by helping others and get stronger and weaker at the same time !
Pain Has a Purpose
To begin changing your understanding of pain and suffering, consider what pain really is.
There’s physical pain, of course. But there’s also mental and emotional pain. Just as physical pain is designed to notify us when something is wrong, so is emotional pain. If we’re having chest pain or achy joints, we take it as a signal to reach out for help. We know something needs attention.
Many people try to forget pain and society encourages us to mask pain by taking pills but it always come back and stronger. It is an alarm and our body warns us ! We must fight it ! If we don’t fight it back it gets stronger and stronger and when we don’t find weapons to fight it then the problem gets bigger and bigger ! That’s why we need to try to find a regular life without excess ! It’s great when we have dogs and we can walk them in the forest or in the countryside or by the seaside where there is only natural noise that is peaceful noise for the mind and regular noise ! But we need to go away from human society and its aggressive noise to re-energize or revitalize !
To begin changing your understanding of pain and suffering, consider what pain really is.
There’s physical pain, of course. But there’s also mental and emotional pain. Just as physical pain is designed to notify us when something is wrong, so is emotional pain. If we’re having chest pain or achy joints, we take it as a signal to reach out for help. We know something needs attention.
Many people try to forget pain and society encourages us to mask pain by taking pills but it always come back and stronger. It is an alarm and our body warns us ! We must fight it ! If we don’t fight it back it gets stronger and stronger and when we don’t find weapons to fight it then the problem gets bigger and bigger ! That’s why we need to try to find a regular life without excess ! It’s great when we have dogs and we can walk them in the forest or in the countryside or by the seaside where there is only natural noise that is peaceful noise for the mind and regular noise ! But we need to go away from human society and its aggressive noise to re-energize or revitalize !
In a way we need to empty our mind ! But we mustn’t leave it empty ! We must fill it with positive thoughts and do things and be creative and evacuate our stress and channel our stress by acting and show ourselves and others that we can do things! Turning back means more stress ! I am not saying we mustn’t turn back but we must strengthen ourselves to face it !
In fact, it started with oblio writing about "refiner's fire". I looked for a definition of refiner and then I looked for something in connection on the internet. I found interesting to copy what was said about on a site I joined the link at the the beginning. It is:
https://www.mrt.com/lifestyles/reli...-to-refine-us-show-his-reflection-7438400.php
After each paragraph I give my opinion (I underline my text each time). I also appreciated the paragraph about "gold being refined"!
https://www.mrt.com/lifestyles/reli...-to-refine-us-show-his-reflection-7438400.php
After each paragraph I give my opinion (I underline my text each time). I also appreciated the paragraph about "gold being refined"!
Suffering is a Choice
Likewise, emotional pain is our brain’s way of telling us that something important needs to be addressed. But the emotional discomfort we feel often drives us to find ways to avoid it or ignore it. Rather than look at the underlying causes for our pain, we choose to focus on the unpleasant way it makes us feel.
Sometimes we get caught up in negativity and complaining when we spend too much time focusing on the source of our pain. We can let anger overtake us at the unfairness of our situation. Maybe we dwell on how hard things are for us.
Unfortunately, these reactions only prolong the pain—and create suffering. For this is what suffering is. When we ignore our pain and get angry about it, we allow suffering to invade our lives. We create suffering in our lives by what we do with the difficulties we encounter.
Not always man you forget people who have to live daily with the source of their pain and you can’t avoid it and it is so strong that pain and suffering mix together and get more powerful and more destructive and then you have no choice and like Job you want to die ! So it’s not always the same ! And you get accustomed to it if it’s possible to get accustomed and you don’t complained and it destroys you from the inside and then you have to live with it all your life !
Likewise, emotional pain is our brain’s way of telling us that something important needs to be addressed. But the emotional discomfort we feel often drives us to find ways to avoid it or ignore it. Rather than look at the underlying causes for our pain, we choose to focus on the unpleasant way it makes us feel.
Sometimes we get caught up in negativity and complaining when we spend too much time focusing on the source of our pain. We can let anger overtake us at the unfairness of our situation. Maybe we dwell on how hard things are for us.
Unfortunately, these reactions only prolong the pain—and create suffering. For this is what suffering is. When we ignore our pain and get angry about it, we allow suffering to invade our lives. We create suffering in our lives by what we do with the difficulties we encounter.
Not always man you forget people who have to live daily with the source of their pain and you can’t avoid it and it is so strong that pain and suffering mix together and get more powerful and more destructive and then you have no choice and like Job you want to die ! So it’s not always the same ! And you get accustomed to it if it’s possible to get accustomed and you don’t complained and it destroys you from the inside and then you have to live with it all your life !
Choosing to Avoid Suffering (In a Healthy Way)
Many people will do anything they can to avoid dealing with their emotional pain. They try to silence their emotions with food, alcohol, drugs, sex, or work. When uncomfortable feelings pop up, they run away from them and resist them.
But we can learn to stop suffering when we actually choose to stay open to our pain and carefully listen to what it is trying to tell us. We don’t have to let our pain make us angry. We don’t have to expend negative emotional energy trying to avoid it.
Instead, we can learn to observe our pain, examine our expectations and beliefs, and choose to believe that it will pass. Training ourselves to realize that emotions are fleeting and temporary is an important step in saying no to suffering.
Once again when you have to live with it all the time and there is no way to say no, so What ? Think about Job, he had no way to escape, he was attacked from everywhere and he found the strength to fight back and complain but when you can’t do that ?
Many people will do anything they can to avoid dealing with their emotional pain. They try to silence their emotions with food, alcohol, drugs, sex, or work. When uncomfortable feelings pop up, they run away from them and resist them.
But we can learn to stop suffering when we actually choose to stay open to our pain and carefully listen to what it is trying to tell us. We don’t have to let our pain make us angry. We don’t have to expend negative emotional energy trying to avoid it.
Instead, we can learn to observe our pain, examine our expectations and beliefs, and choose to believe that it will pass. Training ourselves to realize that emotions are fleeting and temporary is an important step in saying no to suffering.
Once again when you have to live with it all the time and there is no way to say no, so What ? Think about Job, he had no way to escape, he was attacked from everywhere and he found the strength to fight back and complain but when you can’t do that ?
It’s a Process
Like anything in life, it’s not a once-and-done change. Altering your perspective on the pain you experience and what you do with it is an ongoing journey. It takes practice. As you go through different painful situations and experiences, you may need to go deeper into analyzing your reactions. As with any skill, the more you practice, the more skilled you become.
Now dealing with addiction is another story ! You must decide to fight back, it’s difficult but you need to do the first step !
Like anything in life, it’s not a once-and-done change. Altering your perspective on the pain you experience and what you do with it is an ongoing journey. It takes practice. As you go through different painful situations and experiences, you may need to go deeper into analyzing your reactions. As with any skill, the more you practice, the more skilled you become.
Now dealing with addiction is another story ! You must decide to fight back, it’s difficult but you need to do the first step !
- Status