Absolute Truth

[purgedconscience]

Is there absolute truth?

John chapter 18 verses 33 thru 40

Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Yes, there is absolute truth and Jesus came into this world to bear witness of the same and those who couldn't bear it during the time of His Incarnation chose a robber over Christ, Absolute Truth Personified. And so it goes today.

I just read this entire thread and some of the questions being asked fall more under the category of situational ethics than absolute truth in my opinion. We all need to be very careful to never rationalize behavior which is displeasing and sinful before God based solely upon our situations or circumstances.

 

[kedge]

What is absolute truth?, surely one needs to know what truth is first before one can make it an absolute? or absolute fact or truth?

Is there such a thing as a true Christian? and if so surely they would take guidance from the Bible and Christians follow the commans of their leader Jesus Christ?, but why is Christianity divided?

 

[Sirk]

So do you think that if a young woman was asked to associate with a known spy and have sex with him it would be ok since it would be for good of the country?

I think all of that is the natural result of a fallen world.

 

[purgedconscience]

What is absolute truth?, surely one needs to know what truth is first before one can make it an absolute? or absolute fact or truth?

Is there such a thing as a true Christian? and if so surely they would take guidance from the Bible and Christians follow the commans of their leader Jesus Christ?, but why is Christianity divided?

Paul described one of the causes of division back in his day and it's still a primary cause of division today:

I Corinthians chapter 1 verses 10 thru 15

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

Paul's desire was that all Christians would be perfectly joined together in one mind and he identified that mind as the mind of Christ elsewhere, but such was not the case in his day nor is it the case in our day. Back then, people were carnal in that they were setting their focuses more upon men than Christ Himself and it's the same today to a very large degree. Back then, one said, I am of Paul while another claimed to be of Apollos and yet another claimed to be of Cephas or Peter and only a portion claimed to be of Christ. Is it any different today? Today, it's I'm a Presbyterian and I'm a Baptist and I'm a Lutheran and I'm a Roman Catholic etc. In other words, people still have their focuses fixed too much upon their denominations as opposed to being fixed firmly upon Christ. A perfect recipe for disaster.

 

[Chica]

John chapter 18 verses 33 thru 40

Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Yes, there is absolute truth and Jesus came into this world to bear witness of the same and those who couldn't bear it during the time of His Incarnation chose a robber over Christ, Absolute Truth Personified. And so it goes today.

I just read this entire thread and some of the questions being asked fall more under the category of situational ethics than absolute truth in my opinion. We all need to be very careful to never rationalize behavior which is displeasing and sinful before God based solely upon our situations or circumstances.

Yes, it did turn into situational ethics, but that's ok since it points out that the lack of God in our thinking can render a lot different results, when we take it upon ourselves to make excuses for our actions.

 

[purgedconscience]

Yes, it did turn into situational ethics, but that's ok since it points out that the lack of God in our thinking can render a lot different results, when we take it upon ourselves to make excuses for our actions.

It is okay. I hope that my comments didn't come across as being judgmental or anything like that because that was truly not my intent.

As far as the lack of God in our thinking goes, this is precisely why we are admonished in the following manner in scripture:

2 Corinthians 10 verses 3 thru 6

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds),
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

We truly do need, as Christians, to bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ and that's not always an easy or pleasant thing to do. We read of Christ that He learned obedience by what He suffered and a lot of people seem to want a Christianity that's void of suffering, but no such thing truly exists.

Paul's epistles to the Corinthians, a people very familiar with Greek philosophies and what the Bible calls the wisdom of this world are definitely some of my favorites. We need to be getting our wisdom from Christ and not from the wisdom of this world or the spirit of this world which Paul wrote about.

 

[Chica]

It is okay. I hope that my comments didn't come across as being judgmental or anything like that because that was truly not my intent.

As far as the lack of God in our thinking goes, this is precisely why we are admonished in the following manner in scripture:

2 Corinthians 10 verses 3 thru 6

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds),
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

We truly do need, as Christians, to bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ and that's not always an easy or pleasant thing to do. We read of Christ that He learned obedience by what He suffered and a lot of people seem to want a Christianity that's void of suffering, but no such thing truly exists.

Paul's epistles to the Corinthians, a people very familiar with Greek philosophies and what the Bible calls the wisdom of this world are definitely some of my favorites. We need to be getting our wisdom from Christ and not from the wisdom of this world or the spirit of this world which Paul wrote about.

No, no, it came across as just a comment.

 

[purgedconscience]

No, no, it came across as just a comment.

I just wanted to be sure. I'm in enough hot water already.

 

[Chica]

John chapter 18 verses 33 thru 40

Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Yes, there is absolute truth and Jesus came into this world to bear witness of the same and those who couldn't bear it during the time of His Incarnation chose a robber over Christ, Absolute Truth Personified. And so it goes today.

I just read this entire thread and some of the questions being asked fall more under the category of situational ethics than absolute truth in my opinion. We all need to be very careful to never rationalize behavior which is displeasing and sinful before God based solely upon our situations or circumstances.

Jesus told Pilate what truth was, that He had come to bear witness to it and everyone that is of the truth "heareth my voice" John 18:37 Pilate marvelled at Jesus Matt.27:14 and his wife called Jesus "a just man" (v.19).

 

[Chica]

I just wanted to be sure. I'm in enough hot water already.

Probably no more than me.

 

[purgedconscience]

Probably no more than me.

Come on in. The water's fine. haha.

 

[Chica]

purgedconscience, noticed your avatar Heb.9:22.

Here's something for you to ponder, quite frankly I've been scratching my head since I found it.

The Mercersburg Theology teaches the atonement is brought about by the person of Christ, rather than his work.

John Nevin summarized the Mercersburg Theology, or Movement, by saying, “Its cardinal principle is the fact of the Incarnation.” He explained that by adding, “Christ saves the world, not ultimately by what He teaches or by what He does, but by what He is in the constitution of His own person.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercersburg_Theology

 

[purgedconscience]

purgedconscience, noticed your avatar Heb.9:22.

Here's something for you to ponder, quite frankly I've been scratching my head since I found it.

The Mercersburg Theology teaches the atonement is brought about by the person of Christ, rather than his work.

John Nevin summarized the Mercersburg Theology, or Movement, by saying, “Its cardinal principle is the fact of the Incarnation.” He explained that by adding, “Christ saves the world, not ultimately by what He teaches or by what He does, but by what He is in the constitution of His own person.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercersburg_Theology

I've never heard that before and, despite my age, I've heard just about everything. I'm not even sure what that means, but I am sure that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins and that's a constant theme all throughout scripture.

 

[Chica]

I've never heard that before and, despite my age, I've heard just about everything. I'm not even sure what that means, but I am sure that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins and that's a constant theme all throughout scripture.

It probably came out of the time of Higher Critical thinking. The phrase "higher criticism" became popular in Europe from the mid-18th century to the early 20th century.

Neander (January 17, 1789 – July 14, 1850), was a German theologian and church historian that lived during that time frame. I think the epicenter of this was Tubingen in Germany.


John Williamson Nevin (February 20, 1803 – June 6, 1886), i.e Mercberg Theory was influenced by Neander.

 

[purgedconscience]

Higher Critical thinking.

Higher criticism.

Casting down high things.

I'll share more fully later. I've been logged on for hours, bouncing all over the place, and my head is spinning.

 

[Dan_473]

Is there absolute truth?

Yes... for example, when God gave the bible, the original writings were absolute truth.

things happen when truth is placed in human vessels, tho... so when humans copy the originals, sometimes (not often) mistakes are made...

also, when we read our minds make ideas out of the words... those ideas (imo) aren't perfect... (thankfully, we have the holy spirit to guide us)

finally, our minds start out thinking concretely (imo) and as we age we get the ability to do abstract thought...

but we don't all get that at the same rate... people who think concretely (and no judgement intended here) often like the "it's all perfect or completely worthless" idea...

 

[kedge]

I'm a Presbyterian and I'm a Baptist and I'm a Lutheran and I'm a Roman Catholic etc. In other words, people still have their focuses fixed too much upon their denominations as opposed to being fixed firmly upon Christ. A perfect recipe for disaster.

But it's not necessarily the denomination, it can be interpretation of what those denominations say is the truth of the Bible and of the Christ. I think there is absolute truth yes but only God knows the absolute truth of anything, many imperfect human beings are just trying to explain what they think the Bible's truth is. Some of the Bible is quite simple and easy to understand and some of it is not, that's the way I see things.

 

[PoetMary]

So I feel compelled to add my opinion to several of these ideas.

1. There were several assassination attempts made against Hitler. Some were by Christians. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was convicted and eventually killed for being involved in such an attempt.

2. In Gandhi's writings regarding non-violence, he actually allows for "violence" in certain occasions. People aren't considered "violent" if they engage in self-defense. To eschew self-defense is a personal decision, but it doesn't conflict with Gandhi's ideas of non-violent protest. Additionally, Gandhi claimed that a failure to defend someone being violated is NOT non-violence. He used an example of a husband failing to defend his wife as she's being raped. He claimed that a husband could not in good conscience fail to defend her and claim that he was adhering to non-violence.

3. Sirk is awesome for pointing out the difference between Absolute Truth and black and white thinking. It actually reminded me of Jesus's interaction with the woman caught in adultery. According to the "absolute truth" of the Levitical law, she should have been stoned. Jesus told her, "Neither do I condemn you," and then instructed her to "go and sin no more." Jesus conflicted all the time with interpreters of the law regarding issues that THEY perceived as "absolute truth." God's truth is absolute...but applications of His truth are varied. It's a kind of weird paradox. We do our best to understand it fully, but we are frail, weak, and given to self-deception.

Now we see but through a glass darkly, then shall we see face to face. Now we know in part, then we shall know fully.

The reason we need a relationship with God is so that we can be constantly engaging with him about his truth...and constantly recalibrating so we get it right. Personally, given my own capacity to screw things up on a regular basis, I'm very grateful for the patient, loving, and persistent work of the Holy Spirit within me in this regard.

 

[purgedconscience]

But it's not necessarily the denomination, it can be interpretation of what those denominations say is the truth of the Bible and of the Christ. I think there is absolute truth yes but only God knows the absolute truth of anything, many imperfect human beings are just trying to explain what they think the Bible's truth is. Some of the Bible is quite simple and easy to understand and some of it is not, that's the way I see things.

The real problem, in my estimation, is one of pride versus humility. In other words, if we truly humble ourselves in relation to our reading and understanding of the Bible and genuinely ask God to lead us and guide us into all truth by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, then I believe that we'll be likeminded in accordance to the mind of Christ.

 

[Jack_]

I think when you think deep enough about scientific reason and world-views you will find that absolute truth is hard to claim in any case. But Christ gives us absolute hope and absolute reason to have absolute truth.