-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G
Another wholly venomic , abusive doctrinal, teaching of OSAS is there teaching of verses 2:8,9 of Ephesians.
I heard today that someone believes the word 'that' after the word 'faith' refers to the word a few words after that, 'works.' How one juxtaposes that kind of meaning is beyond boggling of the mind to me.
And, if I had a sledgehammer to give eg for every time he screams at me, 'you're trying to work your way to Heaven' and, 'How can you lose something (salvation) that was never yours in the first place, it is a free gift,' I'd be broke from buying 20 grand worth of 'em
Hmmm, last time I checked for the nice free 10-20 or so gifts from family on X-mad day I either hocked the nice digital camera for cold hard cash , the clothes that mom got wrong size for either cash or something I REALLY wanted , and, that gift of...YOU get the point. What really Oscar free gift. It's given to us. Sure, eternal life is a free gift of God, no duh. You don't think Paul knew that when he wrote Eph. 2:8-9? Wake up! This verse is NOT talking about grace for the 'that' or 'saved' (salvation), or, it's most certainly NOT talking about 'works' for the, 'and that not of yourselves.'
'By grace ye are saved through faith, and, that not of yourselves, it is a free gift of God, that no one should boast.
Grandpa said today the 'that after 'faith' refers to the word, 'works.'
Eg 'liked' grandpas post.
I give the OSASers credit for deception, able to spew it in a crazy kind of way, good thing that HiscWord is Truth and those who believe in Him, and, have His Spirit faithed to their mind, KNOW the Truth of this dead-wrong understanding of the word 'that' in Eph. 2: 8-9 .
Anyway, I did another thread on this verse but it most definitely is a false teaching to think the 'that' refers to 'saved.' Read the whole of the verse, the Lord leads, the 'that' is speaking of faith .
Faith is not of ourselves, it is something that is a free gift of God,vthat no one should boast.
IF Paul was meaning 'that' to mean 'saved,' he would not of said in the very next verse that we were created for doing good works.
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Eph. 2:10
This verse is letting us know why we are to have faith, TO DO GOOD WORKS. Has absolutely zero, zip, nada to do with 'salvation' as eg so emphatically , falsely claims, and, certainly Ephesians 2: 8-9 'that' word refers NOT to 'works,' which is dead-proven wrong in CONTEXT with Eph. 2:10.
Faith, faith, faith, God is all about INCREASING our faith ,Brody God's grace and salvation are 'givens.' We ALREADY know what they are , there is NO mystery to God's grace, and, even less mystery to salvation, pertaining to THIS Eph. 2:8-9, we are SAVED by God's grace. We are to then HAVE FAITH for doing His works He planned for us to do before we were a figment in anyone's mind.
I heard today that someone believes the word 'that' after the word 'faith' refers to the word a few words after that, 'works.' How one juxtaposes that kind of meaning is beyond boggling of the mind to me.
And, if I had a sledgehammer to give eg for every time he screams at me, 'you're trying to work your way to Heaven' and, 'How can you lose something (salvation) that was never yours in the first place, it is a free gift,' I'd be broke from buying 20 grand worth of 'em
Hmmm, last time I checked for the nice free 10-20 or so gifts from family on X-mad day I either hocked the nice digital camera for cold hard cash , the clothes that mom got wrong size for either cash or something I REALLY wanted , and, that gift of...YOU get the point. What really Oscar free gift. It's given to us. Sure, eternal life is a free gift of God, no duh. You don't think Paul knew that when he wrote Eph. 2:8-9? Wake up! This verse is NOT talking about grace for the 'that' or 'saved' (salvation), or, it's most certainly NOT talking about 'works' for the, 'and that not of yourselves.'
'By grace ye are saved through faith, and, that not of yourselves, it is a free gift of God, that no one should boast.
Grandpa said today the 'that after 'faith' refers to the word, 'works.'
Eg 'liked' grandpas post.
I give the OSASers credit for deception, able to spew it in a crazy kind of way, good thing that HiscWord is Truth and those who believe in Him, and, have His Spirit faithed to their mind, KNOW the Truth of this dead-wrong understanding of the word 'that' in Eph. 2: 8-9 .
Anyway, I did another thread on this verse but it most definitely is a false teaching to think the 'that' refers to 'saved.' Read the whole of the verse, the Lord leads, the 'that' is speaking of faith .
Faith is not of ourselves, it is something that is a free gift of God,vthat no one should boast.
IF Paul was meaning 'that' to mean 'saved,' he would not of said in the very next verse that we were created for doing good works.
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Eph. 2:10
This verse is letting us know why we are to have faith, TO DO GOOD WORKS. Has absolutely zero, zip, nada to do with 'salvation' as eg so emphatically , falsely claims, and, certainly Ephesians 2: 8-9 'that' word refers NOT to 'works,' which is dead-proven wrong in CONTEXT with Eph. 2:10.
Faith, faith, faith, God is all about INCREASING our faith ,Brody God's grace and salvation are 'givens.' We ALREADY know what they are , there is NO mystery to God's grace, and, even less mystery to salvation, pertaining to THIS Eph. 2:8-9, we are SAVED by God's grace. We are to then HAVE FAITH for doing His works He planned for us to do before we were a figment in anyone's mind.
Last edited by a moderator:
C
Unopinionated
KJV Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it isthe gift of God:
KJV Eph 2:9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8-9 Seeing that (reason why through Christ Jesus) by that grace we are saved through (channel of an act) that faith (religion) and that (being saved through that faith by grace) not (abs. neg.) from(source) us, but is God's gift, neither (abs. neg.) from (source) works so that no one would have boast of himself (middle deponent).
Notes:
τουτοG3778 D-NSN - (that) = the only other thing in the neuter is 'gift'. It cannot be connect to 'gift' because it has it own definite articled attached to it. It can only pertain to what statement was made previously, as though speaking of it as a thing. But, the gift is that we are saved through faith by grace. Example: He loves everyone and that is good.
KJV Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it isthe gift of God:
KJV Eph 2:9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8-9 Seeing that (reason why through Christ Jesus) by that grace we are saved through (channel of an act) that faith (religion) and that (being saved through that faith by grace) not (abs. neg.) from(source) us, but is God's gift, neither (abs. neg.) from (source) works so that no one would have boast of himself (middle deponent).
Notes:
τουτοG3778 D-NSN - (that) = the only other thing in the neuter is 'gift'. It cannot be connect to 'gift' because it has it own definite articled attached to it. It can only pertain to what statement was made previously, as though speaking of it as a thing. But, the gift is that we are saved through faith by grace. Example: He loves everyone and that is good.
Last edited:
It is a gift indeed.
A life changing gift.
For my gift i shall be grateful eternally.
It is the gift given that leads me on the path of Righteousness..
For all that say your works save you not, they be right.
For the works are of gratitude and love that come through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah being sent by Yahvah God to redeem us.
Any one that tells another that Keeping the 10 Commandments not for but because of our Salvation are meddling in things they understand not.
A life changing gift.
For my gift i shall be grateful eternally.
It is the gift given that leads me on the path of Righteousness..
For all that say your works save you not, they be right.
For the works are of gratitude and love that come through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah being sent by Yahvah God to redeem us.
Any one that tells another that Keeping the 10 Commandments not for but because of our Salvation are meddling in things they understand not.
C
Every religion has it rules to be followed. Faith in those two verses is not the verb 'to believe in', but is a noun 'religion, persuasion, conivction'. One of the rules from Jesus was to follow His commandments. We place our confidence in Him and so by doing that is our religion. So, if your God says to do this or that, then we must do this or that. Again, not to earn it but to maintain it, seeing that salvation is by an gracious act from God through Christ Jesus.
Constraining desires.
The flesh wars against the spirit.
That what one wants to do, he/she doesn't(this is what grace is for)
And what one doesn't want to do, he/she does(this also, is what grace is for)
Those who are led by the Holy Spirit mortify the deeds of the flesh, not because of any power
residing in them, but because God imputes the mind of Christ in them.
And what they once loved, they now hate.
And what they once rejected, they now love.
The change of heart comes from God, lest you should make a checklist, and say you saved yourself by what You did or didn't do.
It is all, in the final analysis, a work of grace.
The flesh wars against the spirit.
That what one wants to do, he/she doesn't(this is what grace is for)
And what one doesn't want to do, he/she does(this also, is what grace is for)
Those who are led by the Holy Spirit mortify the deeds of the flesh, not because of any power
residing in them, but because God imputes the mind of Christ in them.
And what they once loved, they now hate.
And what they once rejected, they now love.
The change of heart comes from God, lest you should make a checklist, and say you saved yourself by what You did or didn't do.
It is all, in the final analysis, a work of grace.
M
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8
"wholly venomic":
No word venomic found in the English language (the Urban Dictionary has an instance, which is profanity).
Perhaps you meant "venomous":
ven·om·ous (vn-ms)
adj.
1.
a. Secreting and transmitting venom: a venomous snake.
b. Full of or containing venom.
2. Malicious; spiteful: a venomous remark.
"abusive doctrinal"
Unintelligible, not a complete sentence; or, perhaps you meant:
"abusive doctrine":
a·bu·sive   [uh-byoo-siv]
adjective
1.
using, containing, or characterized by harshly or coarsely insulting language: an abusive author; abusive remarks.
2.
treating badly or injuriously; mistreating, especially physically: his abusive handling of the horse.
3.
wrongly used; corrupt: an abusive exercise of power.
Or, perhaps you have misplaced your comma, and it should read:
"abusive doctrinal teaching,":
ex:
Apostolic succession "may also be understood as a continuity in doctrinal teaching from the time of the apostles to the present"[3]
wikipedia
"doctrinal"
doc·tri·nal   [dok-truh-nl; Brit. also dok-trahyn-l]
adjective
of, pertaining to, or concerned with doctrine: a doctrinal dispute.
"there teaching":
Should be "their teaching".
SO YOU ARE SAYING THOSE WHO BELIEVE SALVATION IS COMPLETELY A GIFT OF GOD FROM BEGINNING TO END ARE VENOMOUS ABUSIVE DECEIVERS.
Now that we have determined that as a teacher of Holy Writ, even basic English language skills are lacking (indicating an inability to both understand what you are reading; and express what you are thinking), let's see what you are trying to insist on (in The Name of God) regarding the critical issue of SALVATION:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So, you did not understand what the poster was trying to show you, and proceeded to misrepresent what he said.
The only possible reason for the continuing divisiveness over this passage is wrestle it to mean you personally are looking for a way to boast about something - anything - related to your salvation. You have no compunction about repeatedly and persistently attempting to extract ANY of the words from verse 8 to apply it to yourself (your work).
Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit was careful to leave no room for that kind of division and destruction of the heart of the Gospel - he made the entire portion of the verse preceding "and that" a single compound thought.
compound thought: if one component is replaced by another thought having the same truth-value, the new compound thought has the same true-value as the original. The idea is central to propositional logic.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith"
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
1) For
2) by
3) grace
4) you
5) have
6) been
7) saved
8) through
9) faith
and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Which of the 9 words preceding "that" do you pick?
"Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe.."
A formula of propositional logic is a tautology if the formula itself is always true regardless of which valuation is used for the propositional variables.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith" is a single proposition, all true in all variations, all holding the same value of truth. This sentence is a single truth. The entire string of words reveal a single truth, verified twice by the second portion of the verse, by two singular "and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
that: essential clause, referring to "A" thing. singular.
it: singular, subject pronoun, referring to the nouns : grace; saved; faith
so the verse clearly means "your salvation is a gift from God; you have nothing to boast about"
Do you understand?
Do you think 20 sledgehammers can dismantle the Gospel?
Therefore leaving elementary instruction about the Christ, let us advance to mature manhood and not be continually re-laying a foundation of repentance from lifeless works and of faith in God, - Hebrews 6:1
kataballó: to cast down
Original Word: καταβάλλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataballó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ab-al'-lo)
Short Definition: I cast, lay down
Definition: (a) mid: I lay, of a foundation, (b) met: I cast down, prostrate.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. - 1 Corinthians 3:10
But let every man ... - Every man who is a professed teacher. Let him be careful what instructions he shall give to a church that has been founded by apostolic hands, and that is established on the only true foundation. This is designed to guard against false instruction and the instructions of false teachers. People should take heed what instruction they give to a church:
(1) Because of the fact that the church belongs to God, and they should be cautious what directions they give to it;
(2) Because it is important that Christians should not only be on the true foundation, but that they should be fully instructed in the nature of their religion, and the church should be permitted to rise in its true beauty and loveliness;
(3) Because of the evils which result from false instruction.
Even when the foundation is firm, incalculable evils will result from the lack of just and discriminating instruction. Error sanctifies no one. The effect of it even on the minds of true Christians is to mar their piety; to dim its lustre; and to darken their minds. No Christian can enjoy religion except under the full-orbed shining of the word of truth; and every man, therefore, who gives false instruction, is responsible for all the darkness he causes, and for all the lack of comfort which true Christians under his teaching may experience.
The point appears to be you cared nothing for the good gifts given by those who love you, but exchanged them as Esau did for a bowl of slop.
Why do you project that onto others who press on past the elementary teaching, knowing they have eternal security purchased by the Creator? The gift they have received and really want, and will not exchange for anything.
They sought and found the pearl of great price.
This is just insane.
Why do you carry on this way?
So, it's false teaching to say "and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES" refers to "saved" (THAT Salvation NOT being of ourselves)?
So you say (yet again) that salvation (that) IS OF YOURSELF.
That's your foundation.
Sand. Tons of it.
Are you serious?
So, we are given faith in order to do good works.
Not faith in Christ Jesus?
2:10 For we are his workmanship - Which proves both that salvation is by faith, and that faith is the gift of God. Created unto good works - That afterwards we might give ourselves to them. Which God had before preprepared - The occasions of them: so we must still ascribe the whole to God. That we might walk in them - Though not be justified by them.
Wesley
GreenNnice:
Has anyone who believes in eternal security ever said good works are not the fruit of the Salvation that is 100% from God?
"wholly venomic":
No word venomic found in the English language (the Urban Dictionary has an instance, which is profanity).
Perhaps you meant "venomous":
ven·om·ous (vn-ms)
adj.
1.
a. Secreting and transmitting venom: a venomous snake.
b. Full of or containing venom.
2. Malicious; spiteful: a venomous remark.
"abusive doctrinal"
Unintelligible, not a complete sentence; or, perhaps you meant:
"abusive doctrine":
a·bu·sive   [uh-byoo-siv]
adjective
1.
using, containing, or characterized by harshly or coarsely insulting language: an abusive author; abusive remarks.
2.
treating badly or injuriously; mistreating, especially physically: his abusive handling of the horse.
3.
wrongly used; corrupt: an abusive exercise of power.
Or, perhaps you have misplaced your comma, and it should read:
"abusive doctrinal teaching,":
ex:
Apostolic succession "may also be understood as a continuity in doctrinal teaching from the time of the apostles to the present"[3]
wikipedia
"doctrinal"
doc·tri·nal   [dok-truh-nl; Brit. also dok-trahyn-l]
adjective
of, pertaining to, or concerned with doctrine: a doctrinal dispute.
"there teaching":
Should be "their teaching".
SO YOU ARE SAYING THOSE WHO BELIEVE SALVATION IS COMPLETELY A GIFT OF GOD FROM BEGINNING TO END ARE VENOMOUS ABUSIVE DECEIVERS.
Now that we have determined that as a teacher of Holy Writ, even basic English language skills are lacking (indicating an inability to both understand what you are reading; and express what you are thinking), let's see what you are trying to insist on (in The Name of God) regarding the critical issue of SALVATION:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So, you did not understand what the poster was trying to show you, and proceeded to misrepresent what he said.
The only possible reason for the continuing divisiveness over this passage is wrestle it to mean you personally are looking for a way to boast about something - anything - related to your salvation. You have no compunction about repeatedly and persistently attempting to extract ANY of the words from verse 8 to apply it to yourself (your work).
Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit was careful to leave no room for that kind of division and destruction of the heart of the Gospel - he made the entire portion of the verse preceding "and that" a single compound thought.
compound thought: if one component is replaced by another thought having the same truth-value, the new compound thought has the same true-value as the original. The idea is central to propositional logic.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith"
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
1) For
2) by
3) grace
4) you
5) have
6) been
7) saved
8) through
9) faith
and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Which of the 9 words preceding "that" do you pick?
"Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe.."
A formula of propositional logic is a tautology if the formula itself is always true regardless of which valuation is used for the propositional variables.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith" is a single proposition, all true in all variations, all holding the same value of truth. This sentence is a single truth. The entire string of words reveal a single truth, verified twice by the second portion of the verse, by two singular "and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
that: essential clause, referring to "A" thing. singular.
it: singular, subject pronoun, referring to the nouns : grace; saved; faith
so the verse clearly means "your salvation is a gift from God; you have nothing to boast about"
Do you understand?
And, if I had a sledgehammer to give eg for every time he screams at me, 'you're trying to work your way to Heaven' and, 'How can you lose something (salvation) that was never yours in the first place, it is a free gift,' I'd be broke from buying 20 grand worth of 'em
Therefore leaving elementary instruction about the Christ, let us advance to mature manhood and not be continually re-laying a foundation of repentance from lifeless works and of faith in God, - Hebrews 6:1
kataballó: to cast down
Original Word: καταβάλλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataballó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ab-al'-lo)
Short Definition: I cast, lay down
Definition: (a) mid: I lay, of a foundation, (b) met: I cast down, prostrate.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. - 1 Corinthians 3:10
But let every man ... - Every man who is a professed teacher. Let him be careful what instructions he shall give to a church that has been founded by apostolic hands, and that is established on the only true foundation. This is designed to guard against false instruction and the instructions of false teachers. People should take heed what instruction they give to a church:
(1) Because of the fact that the church belongs to God, and they should be cautious what directions they give to it;
(2) Because it is important that Christians should not only be on the true foundation, but that they should be fully instructed in the nature of their religion, and the church should be permitted to rise in its true beauty and loveliness;
(3) Because of the evils which result from false instruction.
Even when the foundation is firm, incalculable evils will result from the lack of just and discriminating instruction. Error sanctifies no one. The effect of it even on the minds of true Christians is to mar their piety; to dim its lustre; and to darken their minds. No Christian can enjoy religion except under the full-orbed shining of the word of truth; and every man, therefore, who gives false instruction, is responsible for all the darkness he causes, and for all the lack of comfort which true Christians under his teaching may experience.
The point appears to be you cared nothing for the good gifts given by those who love you, but exchanged them as Esau did for a bowl of slop.
Why do you project that onto others who press on past the elementary teaching, knowing they have eternal security purchased by the Creator? The gift they have received and really want, and will not exchange for anything.
They sought and found the pearl of great price.
This is just insane.
Why do you carry on this way?
So, it's false teaching to say "and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES" refers to "saved" (THAT Salvation NOT being of ourselves)?
So you say (yet again) that salvation (that) IS OF YOURSELF.
That's your foundation.
Sand. Tons of it.
Are you serious?
So, we are given faith in order to do good works.
Not faith in Christ Jesus?
2:10 For we are his workmanship - Which proves both that salvation is by faith, and that faith is the gift of God. Created unto good works - That afterwards we might give ourselves to them. Which God had before preprepared - The occasions of them: so we must still ascribe the whole to God. That we might walk in them - Though not be justified by them.
Wesley
GreenNnice:
Has anyone who believes in eternal security ever said good works are not the fruit of the Salvation that is 100% from God?
Last edited:
The book of Amos 3:1-8
Listen to this message which I, the Lord , have spoken against you Israelites, against your whole family that I brought out of Egypt. Out of all the families on earth, I have known no one else but you.( The Lord KNOWS (has fellowship with in context of will) only the 'Isrealites'. The believers, doers of God).That is why I am going to punish you for all your sins. Do two people ever walk together without meeting first? ( how can someone walk with God who they have not 'met' yet?)Does a lion roar in the forest if it has no prey?Does a young lion growl in its den unless it has caught something? Does a bird land in a trap on the ground if there’s no bait in it?Does a trap spring up from the ground unless it has caught something? If a ram’s horn sounds an alarm in a city, won’t the people be alarmed?If there is a disaster in a city, hasn’t the Lord done it (Willed it to happen). Certainly, the Almighty Lord doesn’t do anythingunless he first reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. The lion has roared. Who isn’t afraid? (The people who did not hear the lion roar, nor meet it, will still be 'afraid' of it. Yet it is the irealites who are judged most harsh for they had 'met' the Lord).The Almighty Lord has spoken. Who can keep from prophesying?
This is another example of nobody being above anyone else. For the man who knows God, knows better than to abstain from works, to sit idle or to sin. So he be judged on what he knows. The man who has not walked, does not know, for how can he walk with God if God is not shown to Him?
But on the day the lamb is a lion, roaring, the world will hear.
This is the thing. No mancan boast above another because the 'righteous' are to be judged worse than the unknowing sinner.
All sins shall be revisited upon us.
So that we CAN then on walk in light.
It all comes down to an eye for an eye and the price Jesus
aid.
God's intended punishment in times of OT for sin, was death. But Jesus paid that price so we be saved from death and reformed into life.
And not just for our sins, for the sins of the whole world.
And this is why the first will be last.
The believer will be last because it is the duty of a slave to eat after everyone else has left the table.
Listen to this message which I, the Lord , have spoken against you Israelites, against your whole family that I brought out of Egypt. Out of all the families on earth, I have known no one else but you.( The Lord KNOWS (has fellowship with in context of will) only the 'Isrealites'. The believers, doers of God).That is why I am going to punish you for all your sins. Do two people ever walk together without meeting first? ( how can someone walk with God who they have not 'met' yet?)Does a lion roar in the forest if it has no prey?Does a young lion growl in its den unless it has caught something? Does a bird land in a trap on the ground if there’s no bait in it?Does a trap spring up from the ground unless it has caught something? If a ram’s horn sounds an alarm in a city, won’t the people be alarmed?If there is a disaster in a city, hasn’t the Lord done it (Willed it to happen). Certainly, the Almighty Lord doesn’t do anythingunless he first reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. The lion has roared. Who isn’t afraid? (The people who did not hear the lion roar, nor meet it, will still be 'afraid' of it. Yet it is the irealites who are judged most harsh for they had 'met' the Lord).The Almighty Lord has spoken. Who can keep from prophesying?
This is another example of nobody being above anyone else. For the man who knows God, knows better than to abstain from works, to sit idle or to sin. So he be judged on what he knows. The man who has not walked, does not know, for how can he walk with God if God is not shown to Him?
But on the day the lamb is a lion, roaring, the world will hear.
This is the thing. No mancan boast above another because the 'righteous' are to be judged worse than the unknowing sinner.
All sins shall be revisited upon us.
So that we CAN then on walk in light.
It all comes down to an eye for an eye and the price Jesus
aid.
God's intended punishment in times of OT for sin, was death. But Jesus paid that price so we be saved from death and reformed into life.
And not just for our sins, for the sins of the whole world.
And this is why the first will be last.
The believer will be last because it is the duty of a slave to eat after everyone else has left the table.
G
The way the verse is punctuated, 'that' means one thing, you can miscontrue, be dumb like mari, mocking, whatever, I could care less, go ahead and write down a list of all 8 words or whatever there are like she did and say 'Which one will you pick", it still doesn't change the Truth.
The word is 'faith' that 'that' refers too period
Those that like to miscontrue God's holy inspired words which were , I believe, thus punctuated with same divine inspiration, can. I choose not too. Eg chooses too and some others too , I am sure from OSAS becase it
just
does
not
stack
up.
Doesn't . The word is 'faith,' go 'tautology' on that, mari
Keep in mind, you were rude to me and your words really should have you just about on the exodus from this site......
I think your blasphemy is well understood, in fact I know it is, you try, anyway, to deny the Truth, oh well, like I said, it t'aint changing
For by grace you are saved comma through faith comma em dash and that not of yourselves, it is a freee gift of God comma that no one should boast.
The commas set off the words perfectly comma what are you confused question mark
But, it doesn't matter, does it, just forget about the abusive doctrine of this OSAS point I made of 'faith' for Ephesians 2:8 correct reference, go for it, just pointing out a Truth, and, maybe, it can just mean 'saved' or 'grace' or 'faith' and it just doesn't matter. Maybe I was just having fun with grammar for this one, but, eg, insists it is saved, somewhat vehemently, and, grandpa too seemed pretty influential trying for 'works,' and then did someone say 'that' referred to grace?
Hm
The word is 'faith' that 'that' refers too period
Those that like to miscontrue God's holy inspired words which were , I believe, thus punctuated with same divine inspiration, can. I choose not too. Eg chooses too and some others too , I am sure from OSAS becase it
just
does
not
stack
up.
Doesn't . The word is 'faith,' go 'tautology' on that, mari
Keep in mind, you were rude to me and your words really should have you just about on the exodus from this site......
I think your blasphemy is well understood, in fact I know it is, you try, anyway, to deny the Truth, oh well, like I said, it t'aint changing
For by grace you are saved comma through faith comma em dash and that not of yourselves, it is a freee gift of God comma that no one should boast.
The commas set off the words perfectly comma what are you confused question mark
But, it doesn't matter, does it, just forget about the abusive doctrine of this OSAS point I made of 'faith' for Ephesians 2:8 correct reference, go for it, just pointing out a Truth, and, maybe, it can just mean 'saved' or 'grace' or 'faith' and it just doesn't matter. Maybe I was just having fun with grammar for this one, but, eg, insists it is saved, somewhat vehemently, and, grandpa too seemed pretty influential trying for 'works,' and then did someone say 'that' referred to grace?
Hm