According to some God can't tell time!

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Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
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#1
Yep, we have people - "futurologists" effectively claiming God can't tell time.

They claim when God through his prophets and apostles made time statements he didn't mean what he said and these statements can be elasticized into what ever theology suits your futuristic fulfillment can dream up...:rolleyes:

(Rev 1:1 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ...to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass

(Rev 1:3 KJV) .........for the time is at hand.

(Rev 22:6 KJV) ....to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

(Rev 22:10 KJV)...........Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book - for the time is at hand.

(Phil 4:5 KJV) Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

(Rom 13:12 KJV) The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

(1 Cor 10:11 KJV) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (ages) are come.

(James 5:9 KJV) Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

We can see in the above verses some of the imminent time statements made by the inspired apostles - they are writing to humans who would read those time statements in their actual sense.

But the "futurologist" have to ignore how human beings understand time statements and play hanky panky with language.

Not only that, they are inferring that these inspired apostolic writers are false prophets warning of imminencey where none existed.

Christ warned about false prophets arising:

(Mat 24:11 KJV) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Now if the apostles statements of "at hand", "must shortly come to pass", "upon whom the ends of the world (ages) are come come" did not actually come to pass then they are found to be of the false prophets Jesus warned about.

Hardly likely, the only conclusion left is that those denying the imminencey of the apostles statements are at best not understanding those statements and at worst are false prophets themselves.

Jesus told his disciples that the gospel would be preached in all the world and the end would come:

(Mat 24:14 KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Unless the apostles at best misunderstood Jesus, or worst were liars, and uninspired false prophets we see that the gospel was preached to the world and every creature under heaven:

(Col 1:23 KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

(Rom 10:18 KJV) But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

1 Pet 4:17 (Youngs Literal) because it is the time of the beginning of the judgment from the house of God, and if first from us, what the end of those disobedient to the good news of God?

(Phil 4:5 KJV) Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

The apostles were claiming the end of the age was upon THEM - that the judge stood at the door, that the gospel had been preached as Jesus said "in all the world" and then the end would come - was Jesus wrong, were the apostles confused? - I don't think so.

Futurist "theologians" have to misread, misinterpret, bend over backwards, make words mean nothing and massage the text to make their bogus "theology" work.

Any theology that is not able to correctly define the whor.e of Babylon as 1st century apostate Jerusalem/Israel is going to be looking in futility for a future fulfillment of that in the book of revelation.

Jesus told his apostles (HIS APOSTLES) not readers of the bible 1980 + years later that they would see the signs and know it is at the door:

(Mat 24:33 KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

And we know which generation Jesus was speaking to when he made the above statement not some future generation because he told his hearers that some of them would not die before they saw it:

(Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

James claimed it was "at the door":

(James 5:9 KJV) Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Amazing how James is echoing Jesus' words - "know that it is near, even at the doors"

Yet another bogus claim that the futurologists make is that Jesus did not know when the end would come:

(Mark 13:32 KJV) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

This seems like a valid argument, but then they ignore the fact in the book of revelation that the Father is revealing the time to Jesus "which God gave unto him" and Jesus is revealing it to John.

And of course Jesus is saying he did not know the exact time while still in his flesh prior to his crucifixion.

To claim that Jesus would not know after his death is bogus. Not only that to claim the apostles could not know the time is to deny what Jesus told them:

(John 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things.....

All things would most certainly include the timing of the end of the age and Christ's parousia - how do we know that" - it's written all over the NT for those with eyes that don't peer at the pages through the lens of futurist "theology".

Here is God the father revealing the time to Jesus and then to John:

(Rev 1:1 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

A more literal rendition from Strongs:

Rev 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it, having sent through his messenger to his servant John.

Now these futurologists love to play with that word "quickly" or "swiftly" as if it means when the revelation was about to happen some time in the future it will be happening quickly or swiftly rather than soon after John wrote.

But this type of "reasoning" to justify their fawlty "theology" is smoke and mirrors as we see that John states the time is at hand:

(Rev 1:3 KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

In Young's literal:

Rev 1:3 Happy is he who is reading, and those hearing, the words of the prophecy, and keeping the things written in it -- for the time is nigh!

I'll take Jesus' and the apostles words over some desperate looking futurist "theology" that ignores context and makes false prophets out of the apostles.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#2
God apparently 'cannot tell time' in the preterist system either...

revelation says babylon was destroyed in an hour...the preterists identify this with the destruction of jerusalem...which actually took several weeks following a siege of several months...
 

djness

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
502
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#3
When I was 24 I had a dream that I trekked across the earth to find God. I climbed mountain after mountain until at the highest peak I found Him sitting.
I asked God ''When can I die''?
He said ''Soon'.
I'm 36 now.

I'll be perfectly honest and say I really don't know Gods timetable. ''Soon'' however seems to be whenever He likes.
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
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#4
God apparently 'cannot tell time' in the preterist system either...

revelation says babylon was destroyed in an hour...the preterists identify this with the destruction of jerusalem...which actually took several weeks following a siege of several months...
One hour is figurative Gnatty - but then the furturists paradime a dozen....:cool:
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
One hour is figurative Gnatty - but then the furturists paradime a dozen....:cool:
so scripture is literal when you want it to be literal and figurative when you want it to be figurative...whatever it takes to make your eschatology work...

i hope you don't think you are convincing anyone with these threads...if anything you are making preterism look less and less like a valid eschatology...
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
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#6
In the Greek - "in swiftness" :





Looking at the usage in these cases except revelation:

(Luke 18:7 KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Luke 18:8 KJV) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

The martyrs of God in revelation 6:9 -11 were told to wait a little time:

(Rev 6:11 KJV) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Jesus said that the blood of his saints would be required of his generation:

(Mat 23:34 KJV) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

(Mat 23:35 KJV) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

(Mat 23:36 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

How can anyone deny that the above befell those in 70AD? - Ludicrous.

Now onto Acts:

(Acts 12:7 KJV) And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

(Acts 12:8 KJV) And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

Now when the angel said Arise up quickly he wasn't giving the option to do it sooner or later (next day, next week, next year) it was right now!

(Acts 22:17 KJV) And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

(Acts 22:18 KJV) And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

When the Lord appeared to Paul was he saying when you get around to it take the quickest chariot he could find? No he was told get out of there right now.

(Acts 25:4 KJV) But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.

So was Festus leaving soon, or was he gonna hang around roast a few dogs, sit back have a glass of wine, stroll around town and then take the fastest horse out of town?

Not likely.

The argument that en taxei is used of rapidity versus imminence in not supported by the the context, while rapidity is an element it is not the dominant feature where it is used.

It is speaking to when not how fast.

Robert Mounce in his New International Commentary on the New Testament states:

"when used with an adverb taxus may mean quickly, in the sense of a rapid rate, although this usage does not fit the context of erchomai taxu (coming quickly) in Revelation

(Rev 22:7 KJV) Behold, I come (erchomai) quickly (taxu): blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
 

Larry_Stotle

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2014
504
8
18
#7
i hope you don't think you are convincing anyone with these threads...if anything you are making preterism look less and less like a valid eschatology...
I haven't seen you bring any "convincing" rebuttals unless heckling is now the new debate technique...:rolleyes:
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,622
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#8
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, (still waiting)
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, (still waiting)
and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, (still waiting)
and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (still waiting)
(2Th 1:7-10)
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#9
We and are world are created with time, yet we are created by an eternal God who is without time. Scripture is trying to give us an understanding of our eternal creator. We do not have the mind of God, there is much we do not understand, and much that scripture does not even try to explain to us.

For instance, scripture tells us enough about the creation of our world so we know what is important to us, yet man has been wanting more since the Greeks gave us a new way of thinking. Man has been wanting an accurate time schedule from God along with a complete how to list. We wouldn't understand it if we were given it!

We are told we see darkly, that God is beyond our understanding. We are told all we need to know. We are told of the need for faith, and that we can rely on God to be absolutely loving toward us. It is enough.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,622
2,532
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#10
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2Pe 3:3-13)

I guess we've passed the bold text section? Last I checked the earth is still here.
 

SabbieWabbie

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2014
216
5
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#11
Futureologist what? God doesn't lie, God doesn't change His mind, His time and He means what He says. Nit picking scripture to suit you and your own imagination is just looking for trouble.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,283
162
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#13
so scripture is literal when you want it to be literal and figurative when you want it to be figurative...whatever it takes to make your eschatology work...

i hope you don't think you are convincing anyone with these threads...if anything you are making preterism look less and less like a valid eschatology...
I am pretty sure that is not possible.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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#15
Isaiah 42
“Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold;
My chosen one in whom My soul delights.
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the nations.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“He will not cry out or raise His voice,
Nor make His voice heard in the street.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]“A bruised reed He will not break
And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish;
He will faithfully bring forth justice.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“He will not be disheartened or crushedUntil He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness,
I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,
And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the nations,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the dungeon
And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]“I am the Lord, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Behold, the former things have come to pass,
Now I declare new things;
Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you.”


[SUP]10 [/SUP]Sing to the Lord a new song,
Sing His praise from the end of the earth!
You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it.
You islands, and those who dwell on them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the wilderness and its cities lift up their voices,
The settlements where Kedar inhabits.
Let the inhabitants of Sela sing aloud,
Let them shout for joy from the tops of the mountains.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let them give glory to the Lord
And declare His praise in the coastlands.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The Lord will go forth like a warrior,
He will arouse His zeal like a man of war.
He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry.
He will prevail against His enemies.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“I have kept silent for a long time,
I have kept still and restrained Myself.
Now like a woman in labor I will groan,
I will both gasp and pant.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“I will lay waste the mountains and hills
And wither all their vegetation;
I will make the rivers into coastlands
And dry up the ponds.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“I will lead the blind by a way they do not know,
In paths they do not know I will guide them.
I will make darkness into light before them
And rugged places into plains.
These are the things I will do,
And I will not leave them undone.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]They will be turned back and be utterly put to shame,
Who trust in idols,
Who say to molten images,
“You are our gods.”


[SUP]18 [/SUP]Hear, you deaf!
And look, you blind, that you may see.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Who is blind but My servant,
Or so deaf as My messenger whom I send?
Who is so blind as he that is at peace with Me,
Or so blind as the servant of the Lord?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You have seen many things, but you do not observe them;
Your ears are open, but none hears.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The Lord was pleased for His righteousness’ sake
To make the law great and glorious.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But this is a people plundered and despoiled;
All of them are trapped in caves,
Or are hidden away in prisons;
They have become a prey with none to deliver them,
And a spoil, with none to say, “Give them back!”


[SUP]23 [/SUP]Who among you will give ear to this?
Who will give heed and listen hereafter?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who gave Jacob up for spoil, and Israel to plunderers?
Was it not the Lord, against whom we have sinned,
And in whose ways they were not willing to walk,
And whose law they did not obey?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]So He poured out on him the heat of His anger
And the fierceness of battle;
And it set him aflame all around,
Yet he did not recognize it;
And it burned him, but he paid no attention.


 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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#16
Luke 12:49 I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,526
3,708
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#17
I have no idea who those people are that are mentioned in the OP...........BUT, God created time..........so it's a sure bet He can tell time.............

In fact, He can TELL TIME to do whatever He wants it to do............

BUT..............

God, unlike man, IS NOT BOUND by time........

(my thoughts...........)
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
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#18
I don't think it is an issue of whether or not God can tell time. But, believing that when He says "soon", "the time is near", and "quickly".... No, it is just us not believing that He meant what He said.

Ezekiel 12:28 Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
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#19
Ezekiel 12:28 Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.

Daniel 8:26
“The vision of the evenings and mornings Which has been told is true; But keep the vision secret, For it pertains to many days in the future.”


Daniel 12:4
But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”


Daniel 12:9
He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.


Revelation 22:10
And he *said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
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#20
Revelation 22:20 [ I Am Coming Quickly ] He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Yep God can't tell time, been close to 2000 years now. and he has not come yet!