Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

CS1 · Jan 9, 2017

it's not about what I know it is what Joel said and what Peter said and who the end users were to be. Joel 2:28
" And it shall come to pass afterward, that[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] I will pour out my spirit upon [/FONT]all flesh;[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the word All Flesh means Human race. All of them in Context AS Peter explained in context to the even that is recorded in Acts chapter 2.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] Which Peter was clarifying to those who Heard them speak in Languages other than Hebrew. IF Joel promise was only for the Jews then why so many other languages spoken? Peter says why>

Acts 2: 5 "[/FONT]And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]

Not just the Jews if that were the case then Peter was confused when he said in verse 39 of the 2nd chapter

"[/FONT]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT]as many as the Lord our God shall call.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]The Lord called gentiles too Jesus saved them Filled them and called them to preach empowered them. it's there in the book of Acts you cannot look at Joel and say it only means this when Peter in the New Testaments explains what it means as the Holy Spirit gave him the ability to do so. Context is not fulfilled until Acts 2 [/FONT]
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CS1 · Jan 9, 2017

zone said:

that is your opinion but that is not what happen in the Book of Acts you would be right if the holy Spirit did not come on the gentiles as HE did on the Jews and Peter testified to that in the book of Acts more than one and so did Paul.

Chester · Jan 9, 2017

Maybe I missed it, but I looked over the thread and did not see anyone clearly give all the NT references that use the terminology "baptism (baptized, etc.) of the Spirit.

There are seven of them:

four spoken by John the Baptist - Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:7; Luke 3:16; John 1:33
one spoken by Jesus after His resurrection - Acts 1:4,5
one at the story of Cornelius - Acts 11:15-17
one speaks of the wider experience of believers - I Corinthians 12:13

Some would add references like Romans 6:3,4 to this list, but since this text does not say exactly "baptized with the Spirit" I will leave it out of the discussion:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3,4

Notice the following about these seven references:
(1) The four Scriptures spoken by John the Baptist point to the fact that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit. But, nowhere in the Gospels does this happen - Jesus never spoke about it in the Gospels and it is never mentioned! ”
(2) Then in Acts 1:5 the subject comes up again. After the cross and resurrection have occurred and just before he ascends, Jesus says, “John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Clearly Pentecost will be the fulfillment of the baptism of the Spirit.
(3) The reference in Acts 11:15-17 (story of Cornelius) refers back to what happened at Pentecost as well as to what happens here to Cornelius and his household. Thus six of the seven references very clearly refer to the event at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down and for the first time permanently indwelt the disciples - and for the first time they were “born again” (my understanding) and Holy Spirit indwelt them as are believers today. Especially clear here is Verse 17: “when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ”.
(4) My conclusion from the above is that baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at the new birth when we believe in Jesus. It is a moment in time event when we are born again - and the Holy Spirit then comes and indwells the believer.
(5) The last reference - I Corinthians 12:13 - “For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free.” This verse speaks of the wider experience of all Christians and ties the new birth into our becoming part of the church - the bride of Christ.

I would not say a study of these Scriptures is conclusive on the point - but I think it points to the truth that the baptism of the Spirit happens at the new birth when we believe in Christ. Baptism of the Spirit is a one time event, but we are to be ongoingly continually filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18). As someone else said earlier; one baptism, many fillings.

wolfwint · Jan 12, 2017

CS1 said:

,

Hi CS1, if you take Joel 2,23-32 ( I see that in mygerman bible it is Joel, 2,23 -3,5 ) and read it, how do you come to the idea it is meant all mankind? For me it is clear that only the jewish people are meant.

You are rigth, at pentecost it was only a partly fulfillment, because the conditions of the fulfillment are not given in the days of pentecost and also not till today. The fulfillment is combined with Jesus finaly come back.

I know that some people see the fulfillment from Joel in the pentecost movement. But this is a missinterpreting, because this text is talking about Jews.

Also the people which Peter meant in Acts 2,5 and 39 where Jews, but living in foreign countrys and speaking their language. Thats no reason to think that gentiles are meant. Which problem Peter had with gentiles, we can find in acts 10! And God uesed an extra example to prepare Peter for to accept that the gospel is for gentiles in the same way as the jews. Later on in a meeting with Paul in Antiochia (Galatians 2, 11-13) Peter still had problems to stand behind the gentile christians.

Please remind also, that in the beginning the apostels only went to the Jews! Later on the Lord made the believers to push them out of Jerusalem (Acts 8,1). And Paul then was determined to go to the gentiles (acts 9,15)

CS1 · Jan 13, 2017

answer to:
Wolf,
good question,

The context of what Joel's prophecy in the Old testament was not fully understood would you agree? But Peter explained what this event was in the book of Acts capture 2:21, and 38-39 . yes it is for the Jews amen and the Greek word Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord and verse 39 states "even as many as the Lord shall call" . Did the lord call you ? amen are you saved ? amen . The contactual meaning is not complete in the book of Joel. it is in context in the book of Acts chapter 2

CS1 · Jan 13, 2017

answer to:
Wolf,
good question,

The context of what Joel's prophecy in the Old testament was not fully understood would you agree? But Peter explained what this event was in the book of Acts capture 2:21, and 38-39 . yes it is for the Jews amen and the Greek word Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord and verse 39 states "even as many as the Lord shall call" . Did the lord call you ? amen are you saved ? amen . The contextual meaning is not complete in the book of Joel. it is in context in the book of Acts chapter 2

revised

notuptome · Jan 13, 2017

CS1 said:

Why do you struggle with this? The first part of the verse clearly says and we all agree that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. The second part of the verse is clearly speaking to a more defined group of people and not to all flesh. The more defined group is Israel and not all flesh.

Peter acknowledges this in Acts 2. Peter also includes the fact that the signs in the heavens are not present so there is a future fulfillment of the latter part of Joel's prophecy.

You frustrate the verse by attempting to place Gentiles into prophecy given to Israel. Those present at Pentecost were Jews from every nation. Now here again the promise in verse 39 is to as many as the Lord shall call is the promise of the Holy Spirit who is poured out on all flesh.

All these contortions so you can justify tongues which are in the modern church merely a rabbit hole which folks go down into and move away from growth in the Lord. Husks and not sincere milk of the word of God surely not strong meat.

Worship God in Spirit and Truth which is the word of God. Feed daily upon His word which is indeed bread and sustenance for the soul. Pray in the Spirit and pray with knowledge that you might grow in grace and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CS1 · Jan 16, 2017

notuptome said:

lol struggle hahahah not but thank you for your concern. How about you and I just move on. you have very bad habit of attacking those who do not see it your way. you use words like : struggle , frustrate, contortions, and other. The point were made biblically. The truth is in the Book of Acts gentiles received what those in the upper home did. those who see this are not trying to justify tongue nor creating rabbit holes or moving them away from growth in the Lord you are rude. You also lack an openness to hear what other thinks you have stated in past post you have never made an error. So you and i do not take this to a place I do not want to go.

CS1 · Jan 16, 2017

wolfwint said:

,

Hi CS1, if you take Joel 2,23-32 ( I see that in mygerman bible it is Joel, 2,23 -3,5 ) and read it, how do you come to the idea it is meant all mankind? For me it is clear that only the jewish people are meant.

You are rigth, at pentecost it was only a partly fulfillment, because the conditions of the fulfillment are not given in the days of pentecost and also not till today. The fulfillment is combined with Jesus finaly come back.

I know that some people see the fulfillment from Joel in the pentecost movement. But this is a missinterpreting, because this text is talking about Jews.

Also the people which Peter meant in Acts 2,5 and 39 where Jews, but living in foreign countrys and speaking their language. Thats no reason to think that gentiles are meant. Which problem Peter had with gentiles, we can find in acts 10! And God uesed an extra example to prepare Peter for to accept that the gospel is for gentiles in the same way as the jews. Later on in a meeting with Paul in Antiochia (Galatians 2, 11-13) Peter still had problems to stand behind the gentile christians.

Please remind also, that in the beginning the apostels only went to the Jews! Later on the Lord made the believers to push them out of Jerusalem (Acts 8,1). And Paul then was determined to go to the gentiles (acts 9,15)

I would agree with but you have to over look what Peter said in Acts chapter 2 to have that understanding we are spiritual Israel are we not? are we not the adopted children ? All flesh is all flesh. and That is what happened in the book of Acts.

Ariel82 · Jan 17, 2017

I don't understand why people believe God had two separate salvation plans for Jew and gentile. I heard it explained but it seems illogical in light of these verses:

Colossians 3:11 ►
New International Version
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Galatians 3:28 ►
New International Version
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

PeterJens · Jan 17, 2017

Ariel82 said:

It sounds very romantic, the kind of thing people want to see promises to Israel fulfilled
through the nation and not just Gods people. What I have also been astounded by is the
anti-semitic hatred that some hold, which may put a lot off the one kingdom view.

On a superficial level the view of Israel the nation and the temple, is different from the
very personal spiritual walk with Jesus. So it is a simple win to say they are different.

notuptome · Jan 17, 2017

CS1 said:

You continue to misrepresent what I have said. Yes Gentiles received the Holy Spirit like every other soul that was saved. Never have I said anything different. Where we disagree and where you deviate from sound biblical doctrine is in the area of tongues and their operation in the modern church.

I do not mean to be unkind but when a person holds themselves up as a leader in the church then I have greater expectations of them when it comes to understanding the word of God. I have pointed out the change of pronouns in Joel two yet you do not address this subtle yet important change in the text. If you are unable to explain it I can understand the problem but don't blame me. Jesus did not apologize when He taught the scriptures in the temple and some were offended by His knowledge of the scriptures.

Study of the bible should distill down the word of God to It's purest essence and greatly reward those who undertake the endeavor. The intent is not to dilute the body of Christ with unprofitable doctrines but the seek diligently to draw closer to presence and person of Christ.

I'm not attempting to change you because I know that only Jesus is able to accomplish that task. Chastisement and correction is for those whom the Lord loveth.

I may not always be right but when I'm right and the scripture says I'm right then I'm right. But it's not me it's Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CS1 · Jan 17, 2017

notuptome said:

your presupposition that one has not study or that i have not while you over look the vast amount of scriptural ref given by many here. Never said you have to agree but just because you do not agree is not to say you are right. I am glad to see you say that your not always right. I disagree with your understanding of the full context of Joel 2 and Acts in it's entirety. Now your comment about one who hold themselves as a Leader in the church and your expectation ; surely your understanding is not fully complete of everything of the bible? And from the vast amounts of your post it is clear you are hostile to those who see Tongues as biblical and for today. Where i have never did that...... never. So. you and I are done we do not agree and you do not have to agree with me I am not going to suggest you are not saved, godly, false teacher etc... I will say in what I have seen that is not what you have done in the past. God Bless

notuptome · Jan 17, 2017

CS1 said:

Never said it was but if you are a teacher or pastor you should be able to show from the scriptures with clarity why you teach what you teach.

I do not take a flippant mocking tone toward other posters and I respect the word of God. I do not rest assured that there are not false teachers here and that there are not pretenders who will not appear at the judgment seat of Christ. There are in fact a couple that I am quite concerned about in that they may have progressed to the apostate level of unbelief. In any case I do not laugh at them nor do I name them in the public forums.

I will not be offended that you do not agree with me. I will be offended if you do not agree with Jesus. Offended and broken hearted if you reject the word of God because you do not like what it teaches.

I do not wish any ill on even the most odious of posters here on CC. Some who have a genuine antichrist agenda you guys have been quick to remove and I respect the effort to keep the board free of those who hate Jesus Christ.

I also recognize that if I have freedom to witness for Christ others must also be afforded the same freedom even if their doctrine is in conflict with what I believe to be the truth. I do endeavor to be as kind as I am able but the purifying qualities of Gods word often provide some discomfort. Light and salt cleanse but not without resistance from the contaminating elements.

I have this to be true in my life. I do not engage in character assassination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CS1 · Jan 17, 2017

notuptome said:

the position in context to Joel chapter 2 and Acts 2 are there. You were shown and many chapters showed the experience of the Holy Spirit given to Gentiles which you choose not to agree with. You are very judgmental to suggest that I not agreeing with you is in someway not to agree with the Lord Jesus Christ. I have not rejected the word of God and you continue to to insult those who do not agree with you as you just did yet again. FYI to not to agree with CS1 or NOTUPTOME is in no way rejecting Jesus Christ. To say that is very immature. and character assassination is what you do when those who do not agree with you. You are not the only one but it is very telling by what you have stated here.

were done

CS1 · Jan 19, 2017

I would like to have a biblical Discussion on these two topic. without insults , false narratives , and strawmen created by both side for and against the subject. I would like to cover both what I think the bible and much study i have done over the many years. You do not have to agree with me but, I would like for you all to please provide contextual meaning to your response. If this is not possiable then you are free not to post. I accept all questions anyone will ask but I will not hear rudness or insults .
I thought I was clear

88 · Jan 20, 2017

Sounds reasonable...

prove-all · Jan 20, 2017

Why baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ?

That there is a way to salvation

-We are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:10).

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

-by his goodness the Father brings us to and grants us repentance (Romans 2:4).

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

-After repentance, we are to be baptized. (Acts 2:38).

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name
of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

-It is the Spirit that actually begets us as sons of God (Romans 8:9, 14, 16-17).
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

-the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or
down payment, of our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Romans 8:16).

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of
the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

-We are baptized into the truth by God’s power (Matthew 3:11; John 1:33).

3I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he
which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

-That Spirit, God’s power, actually dwells in us after baptism (Acts 2:38; 4:8, 31; Ezekiel 36:27).

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

27And I will put (my spirit) within you, and (cause you to walk) in (my statutes),
and ye shall (keep my judgments, and do them).

- was given to witness to the world.

8 But ye shall (receive power), after that (the Holy Ghost) is come (upon you):
and ye shall be (witnesses) unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the (uttermost part) of the earth.

-teach and brings things to our remembrance through the power of His Spirit (John 14:26).

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

-God will give His Spirit to those who ask for right reason.(Luke 11:13).

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

-God reveals His secrets to us through the Holy Spirit (Luke 2:26)

26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should
not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

-helps us speak his words boldly.

31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

- and in truth his words about things to come.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will (shew you things to come).

prove-all · Jan 20, 2017

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.

The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they
that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation:
the fear of the Lord is his treasure.

[h=3][/h]

Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God,
and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

O fear the Lord, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

Ariel82 · Jan 20, 2017

So are we going to discuss gifts of the holy spirit?

Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

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