This is all good to understand, and if we aren't born to God, if we haven't received the Holy Spirit we can not know these things. It would be nice if our knowing, having the HS, and our prayer life was sufficient but it is not. Without taking that step out, knowing there is secure footing, there is no fruit. We can't express joy with a frown. We can't express love by being critical. We can't express peace without being content. We can't walk without walking.
Again, The Holy Spirit yada yada yada
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expanding upon question 4:
Ephesians 4
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, [SUP]13 [/SUP]till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; [SUP]14 [/SUP]that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, [SUP]15 [/SUP]but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— [SUP]16 [/SUP]from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Ephesians 4
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, [SUP]13 [/SUP]till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; [SUP]14 [/SUP]that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, [SUP]15 [/SUP]but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— [SUP]16 [/SUP]from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
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is a Newborn expected to walk when it is first born?
should you burden an 8 year old with the task of planting the fields?
Would you scold a group of toddlers for running from a list of rules that don't apply to them?
Would you try and teach them how to drive?
why then do many try to burden newly born again Christians with rituals and laws that have been made obsolete with the passing of the old covenant and the establishment of the New covenant?
is the old wine so much better?
should you burden an 8 year old with the task of planting the fields?
Would you scold a group of toddlers for running from a list of rules that don't apply to them?
Would you try and teach them how to drive?
why then do many try to burden newly born again Christians with rituals and laws that have been made obsolete with the passing of the old covenant and the establishment of the New covenant?
is the old wine so much better?
J
by faith we know we receive the holy spirit, but that faith must produce works to back up that your faith was not in vain and faith does produce works. 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[h=3]James 2:14-18[/h]
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-9[/h]
you faith MUST HAVE WORKS to prove that it was truly divine supreme faith from the heart that made saved you. if no works has come forth then it is a dead faith.
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[h=3]James 2:14-18[/h]
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-9[/h]
you faith MUST HAVE WORKS to prove that it was truly divine supreme faith from the heart that made saved you. if no works has come forth then it is a dead faith.
Some people are great at expressing there thoughts and I'm not one of them, not in oral words or on paper.
This Holy Spirit thing is in so many posts so I put yada yada ... meaning here we go again.
I just wanted to read what other people understood by each question with a scripture answer for each question that justifies their understanding. That's all.
Not looking for a fight or anything as we all believe we can hold our own.
Like I say, just wondering what all these people on here understand about the Holy Spirit and the questions I posed were crude and not the best way of putting them...but that's me I do the best I can without sitting in front of the puter all day just to communicate one sentence that's understandable. I have my understanding, I just wanted other peoples.
And I thought those 4 questions were appropriate for what I was looking for in others.
This Holy Spirit thing is in so many posts so I put yada yada ... meaning here we go again.
I just wanted to read what other people understood by each question with a scripture answer for each question that justifies their understanding. That's all.
Not looking for a fight or anything as we all believe we can hold our own.
Like I say, just wondering what all these people on here understand about the Holy Spirit and the questions I posed were crude and not the best way of putting them...but that's me I do the best I can without sitting in front of the puter all day just to communicate one sentence that's understandable. I have my understanding, I just wanted other peoples.
And I thought those 4 questions were appropriate for what I was looking for in others.
A
that is the problem. who are you trying to PROVE something to? Either you have faith and the Holy Spirit resides in you or He doesn't. What you do with your life isn't about Proving anything to anyone.
its about honesty.
That passage is about walking the walk, not just talking the talk. You can say "be warm" all you want but if you don't actually give them food or clothes, then its just hypocrisy.
its about caring for your brother and sisters in Christ like they are members of YOUR BODY or more exactly Christ's body, because that is what they are.
God wants us to do more than just pray for them, He wants us to share whatever He has blessed with them as well.
however, the cynic in me wonders how many have church families who do this or perhaps that is why they are searching online for such fellowship?
I know quite a few churches who have food pantries and collect clothes and money for families who have undergone devestating losses due to illness, unemployment, crime, natural disasters, etc.
A lot of people focus on the bad of the world that I sometimes want to talk about the wonderful good people who do things but do it quietly. not for the fame or glory of the world but because they know God is watching from Heaven and I think He smiles upon those people who so unselfishly give up their time and resources to help others who may never know their name.
Good works don't PROVE anything. there are many hypocrites, atheist, Buddhist, Muslims, Hinduis, etc of the world that would do what can be called "good works" or acts of charity.
People are at different levels of maturity and if you come upon a fig tree in the winter, would you expect it to bear fruit?
Would you put a seedling in the middle of a desert and expect it to survive?
its about honesty.
That passage is about walking the walk, not just talking the talk. You can say "be warm" all you want but if you don't actually give them food or clothes, then its just hypocrisy.
its about caring for your brother and sisters in Christ like they are members of YOUR BODY or more exactly Christ's body, because that is what they are.
God wants us to do more than just pray for them, He wants us to share whatever He has blessed with them as well.
however, the cynic in me wonders how many have church families who do this or perhaps that is why they are searching online for such fellowship?
I know quite a few churches who have food pantries and collect clothes and money for families who have undergone devestating losses due to illness, unemployment, crime, natural disasters, etc.
A lot of people focus on the bad of the world that I sometimes want to talk about the wonderful good people who do things but do it quietly. not for the fame or glory of the world but because they know God is watching from Heaven and I think He smiles upon those people who so unselfishly give up their time and resources to help others who may never know their name.
Good works don't PROVE anything. there are many hypocrites, atheist, Buddhist, Muslims, Hinduis, etc of the world that would do what can be called "good works" or acts of charity.
People are at different levels of maturity and if you come upon a fig tree in the winter, would you expect it to bear fruit?
Would you put a seedling in the middle of a desert and expect it to survive?
Alright if that is your belief I'm ok with that. I'll take that John 16:13 but it has to be in it's place of understanding. Who is John talking to and what is his statement concerning that He said it..Ya know? You can't just read a passage literally there is more to it than that in my eyes.
So you are saying you read a scripture and instantly you understand the full depth of it ..cut and dry? That's pretty good, wish I could do that.
So you are saying you read a scripture and instantly you understand the full depth of it ..cut and dry? That's pretty good, wish I could do that.
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Hey give him a break, I think he typed a word in place of a word he ment to type. Think about it, you just said yourself that he just made the word up... I don't think that word was what he ment. But I'll be you know the word he ment
I didn't until I researched church history and different sects.
gnostics believed that all flesh was evil and all spirit was good
or something like that. they also believed that Jesus didn't really come in the sinful flesh and was a cult that Paul wrote against in some of his letters.
there is more too it but its getting late and you could research it more if you like.
A
it takes practice. if you stick around you can keep trying to express your thoughts on screen and maybe it will help when you try to speak them orally. its help me a little.
I got that, but wasn't sure if you were being flippant, or posting a warning label
as in we are all really stubborn?
stop putting yourself down. you seem to be doing a decent job communicating so far....
so what is your understanding?
also be careful what you ask for. lol you might get it.
Anyway welcome to CC. haven't seen you around before, but I haven't been around much this summer.
if you stick around you can keep trying to express your thoughts on screen and maybe it will help when you try to speak them orally. its help me a little. I got that, but wasn't sure if you were being flippant, or posting a warning label
as in we are all really stubborn?
stop putting yourself down. you seem to be doing a decent job communicating so far....
so what is your understanding?
also be careful what you ask for. lol you might get it.
Anyway welcome to CC. haven't seen you around before, but I haven't been around much this summer.
that is the problem. who are you trying to PROVE something to? Either you have faith and the Holy Spirit resides in you or He doesn't. What you do with your life isn't about Proving anything to anyone.
I think we are misunderstanding each other, I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply asking 4 questions about the HS.
But I think I understand what you may be saying to me...Don't ask questions it only starts arguments and ruins the whole purpose of the CC.
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<oh great, it looks like I've step on someone else's toes>
that post wasn't meant for you. and your questions are welcomed.
if i didn't appreciate them, then I wouldn't have bothered to answer.
what do you think the purpose of CC is?
as for the arguments part, have you read most of the threads in this forum?
the post you quoted was in response to post 25 but other people posted a bunch of stuff before I finished typing.
the forums can get confusing like that sometimes.
sorry for the misunderstanding.
that post wasn't meant for you. and your questions are welcomed.
if i didn't appreciate them, then I wouldn't have bothered to answer.
what do you think the purpose of CC is?
as for the arguments part, have you read most of the threads in this forum?
the post you quoted was in response to post 25 but other people posted a bunch of stuff before I finished typing.
the forums can get confusing like that sometimes.
sorry for the misunderstanding.
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it gets tangled when a bunch of people post at the same time on a thread or when more than one conversation is going on at one time.
hopefully some other people will come along and answer your original four questions.
the good part is most people don't bother reading the whole thread but just the Original Post and respond. at least its good sometimes....
so will you answer the questions yourself sometime in the near future?
hopefully some other people will come along and answer your original four questions.
the good part is most people don't bother reading the whole thread but just the Original Post and respond. at least its good sometimes....
so will you answer the questions yourself sometime in the near future?