Alcohol
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Ok..... notice the following verse:Isaiah 28:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place.
That doesn't sound like a properly kept place. The priests could have brought alcohol in the temple when they shouldn't. In Ezekiel 8, they were in one of the rooms worshipping idols.
How can they be "swallowed up in wine" if it was grape juice?
It was full of vomit and not clean because they were drunk and puking all over.
a bunch of somebodies need to gather at the river...get yourselves cleaned up and don't come back here till you smell better
I've skipped a lot of this thread... didn't dream it would stumble on this long, but the topic of drinking pushes a lot of "hot buttons" in many people.
New wine is mentioned in scripture... "don't put new wine in old wineskins"... because as it fermented, it would swell the skins and burst them.. In other words, they EXPECTED it to ferment. It wasn't considered "spoiled", or gone bad... it had simply turned into strong wine. That's what was supposed to happen.
Did they drink new wine at times? I'm sure they did.... BUT... to say that Jesus and the apostles were drinking new wine at the last supper is simply wrong. (IMO, of course)
Ask ANY Jewish person, rabbi, whoever, what kind of wine is used for "feasts".... especially the Passover feast. It wasn't new wine, or sweetened Welch's grape juice. It was strong wine.
Jesus didn't create new wine for the wedding feast...how silly.
To try to portray all 1st century Christians as being teetotalers is misrepresentation at its best.
Look at scripture... Jesus taught MODERATION. That means don't do too much of ANYTHING.
Whether it's instructions for elders and deacons, or whatever.... the answer is moderation.
If you are incapable of moderation, then by all means, practice abstinence. Just don't try to make it a "rule" for everyone. And for those that CAN practice moderation... do it in love. Don't flaunt your freedom in the face of those who cannot.
Pretty simple, in my understanding...
New wine is mentioned in scripture... "don't put new wine in old wineskins"... because as it fermented, it would swell the skins and burst them.. In other words, they EXPECTED it to ferment. It wasn't considered "spoiled", or gone bad... it had simply turned into strong wine. That's what was supposed to happen.
Did they drink new wine at times? I'm sure they did.... BUT... to say that Jesus and the apostles were drinking new wine at the last supper is simply wrong. (IMO, of course)
Ask ANY Jewish person, rabbi, whoever, what kind of wine is used for "feasts".... especially the Passover feast. It wasn't new wine, or sweetened Welch's grape juice. It was strong wine.
Jesus didn't create new wine for the wedding feast...how silly.
To try to portray all 1st century Christians as being teetotalers is misrepresentation at its best.
Look at scripture... Jesus taught MODERATION. That means don't do too much of ANYTHING.
Whether it's instructions for elders and deacons, or whatever.... the answer is moderation.
If you are incapable of moderation, then by all means, practice abstinence. Just don't try to make it a "rule" for everyone. And for those that CAN practice moderation... do it in love. Don't flaunt your freedom in the face of those who cannot.
Pretty simple, in my understanding...
