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As long as you take passages of scripture out of context. You will continue to show how UNWORTHY you are. and how much you do not know Gods word.
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[a] because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Notice the key words there?
Know the gospel - faith alone
Faith
Believe
Grace.
none of these things can one take credit for. nor can anyone be worthy just because of these things, because non of them are our doings. God does all the work.
Keep trying to be worthy. You will be like the rest of those chosen for destruction because you are not obaying the gospel. but trying to earn Gods grace by your works.
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[a] because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Notice the key words there?
Know the gospel - faith alone
Faith
Believe
Grace.
none of these things can one take credit for. nor can anyone be worthy just because of these things, because non of them are our doings. God does all the work.
Keep trying to be worthy. You will be like the rest of those chosen for destruction because you are not obaying the gospel. but trying to earn Gods grace by your works.
Oops you quoted half a sentence.
(2 Thessalonians 1:4) So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
(2 Thessalonians 1:5) Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Our tribulation is an indication that we will be counted worthy.
IOW....Christians will be persecuted.
(2 Thessalonians 1:4) So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
(2 Thessalonians 1:5) Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Our tribulation is an indication that we will be counted worthy.
IOW....Christians will be persecuted.
Strangedoc, you don't believe in the local churches, so why would quote (v.4)? Patience, faith, persecutions and tribulations belong to the churches and not part of independent Christianity. You can boast in your independent believer-ship but leave the churches out of it because you refuse to identify with them and the trials of their faith. If you do not identify with the trials of their faith, you can not take part in their fruit that will result. What sarcastic answer do you have in response this time?
Sorry to break it to ya Redster, but churches means:
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
It doesnt mean an organized church building. It just means being part of the 'called out'...part of the UNIVERSAL Church.
I meet plenty with Christians. I have my own little congregation/community of believers (church).
But you dont like the fact I reject authority in the Church. Thats a problem you need to take up with Jesus.
(Matthew 20:25) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
(Matthew 20:26) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
(Matthew 20:27) And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
(Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
It doesnt mean an organized church building. It just means being part of the 'called out'...part of the UNIVERSAL Church.
I meet plenty with Christians. I have my own little congregation/community of believers (church).
But you dont like the fact I reject authority in the Church. Thats a problem you need to take up with Jesus.
(Matthew 20:25) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
(Matthew 20:26) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
(Matthew 20:27) And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
(Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
What is it with some of you that keep referring back to a 'church building' when someone mentions a local church, especially those that have a pastor-teacher? You reject any delegated authority that God has placed in the church through a pastor-teacher because you do not like submission, or obeying another or the fact that God put others over us in the Lord. That's the authority you do not want to be under and that is why you are an independent believer and anyone else you hang with that is like you. You do not understand the purpose of a local church body of believers that are under a pastor-teacher and functions as a living organism and why God has ordained it so.
You do not study categorical doctrine concerning the body politic of the living organism that is called the church. We are members one of another but that has no meaning or relevance to you within that body politic. Those that God has given to the church to preach and teach doctrine you will not recognize them because you are an independent Christian that wants to learn on your own with no help from others that God might put over you. You call them cell groups because that is your limited understanding of the scriptures as it pertains to the believer and body of Christ.
You do not study categorical doctrine concerning the body politic of the living organism that is called the church. We are members one of another but that has no meaning or relevance to you within that body politic. Those that God has given to the church to preach and teach doctrine you will not recognize them because you are an independent Christian that wants to learn on your own with no help from others that God might put over you. You call them cell groups because that is your limited understanding of the scriptures as it pertains to the believer and body of Christ.
Dunno how hard these verses are to understand Red....
(Matthew 20:25) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
(Matthew 20:26) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
(Matthew 20:27) And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
(Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
There is NO human authority in the Church that any believer needs to subject themselves to.
EVEN JESUS MINISTERED!
SIMPLEZ!
(Matthew 20:25) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
(Matthew 20:26) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
(Matthew 20:27) And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
(Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
There is NO human authority in the Church that any believer needs to subject themselves to.
EVEN JESUS MINISTERED!
SIMPLEZ!
N
The problem is that is mans definition of Grace, not Gods' 4Runner, how is that ANY different than YOU giving meaning to your thoughts? These are MY thoughts about Gods grace, may not be your definition, but then , you havent walked my walk have you? In the same reguard I havent walked YOURS, so how does it make mine any more right or any more wrong? I havent said ONE WORD to you reguarding ANY of this thread, other than to give my opinion on what grace means TO ME, WHY? Because I dont AGREE , and I dont want to sow discord, I dont think Ill attain sinless perfection till I meet my God face to face, thats me, if you think you can , knock yourself out. From what I gather and have read MY righteousness is as filthy rags, YES, he cleanses me, YES he forgives me, my bible says to STRIVE to be christ -like......STRIVE, Ive studied that word alot , Im not ignorant to its meaning, is that a license to not give my all? NO, but it also tells me not to get too puffed up thinkin I can do anything to deserve what He willingly done for me, you touched on the word humility , maybe we all need a lesson.
What makes you think that those that God has called and qualified by grace and given to the church will not learn to lay their life down for the brethren and to serve them through the love of God? But, as they serve and love the brethren, it is also their calling to feed the flock with the word and doctrine that God has given them the oversight. They are called to teach the word in season and out of season and to minister continually, morning, noon and night. Their life is not their own and they have been called to lay it down. They are also called to train up disciples unto the Lord and to equip them and thorough furnish them with the word and doctrine unto all good works as they prepare for what God calls them to do in the plan and will of God. There is a promotion process and even the disciples were schooled three years under the Lord before they were used to build churches (NOT SOME CELL GROUP).
