The problem is that is mans definition of Grace, not Gods' 4Runner, how is that ANY different than YOU giving meaning to your thoughts? These are MY thoughts about Gods grace, may not be your definition, but then , you havent walked my walk have you? In the same reguard I havent walked YOURS, so how does it make mine any more right or any more wrong? I havent said ONE WORD to you reguarding ANY of this thread, other than to give my opinion on what grace means TO ME, WHY? Because I dont AGREE , and I dont want to sow discord, I dont think Ill attain sinless perfection till I meet my God face to face, thats me, if you think you can , knock yourself out. From what I gather and have read MY righteousness is as filthy rags, YES, he cleanses me, YES he forgives me, my bible says to STRIVE to be christ -like......STRIVE, Ive studied that word alot , Im not ignorant to its meaning, is that a license to not give my all? NO, but it also tells me not to get too puffed up thinkin I can do anything to deserve what He willingly done for me, you touched on the word humility , maybe we all need a lesson.