All nations shall flow unto it

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#81
Is Rev 21:10 what all those OT references are pointing to? If so, it is obviously literal. Even the physical dimensions are given. This is the "final state".

Revelation
21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
21:18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.
21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21:21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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#82
You know everyone phrases it as spiritual vs physical but who is to say it is either?
I mean I haven't been to the spiritual realm very often but when I did I honestly had no idea if my body was physical or spirit it was kind of like either both or neither if that makes sense.

Maybe the it will be like that, maybe it will be both spiritual and physical or perhaps in a new bpody neither flesh npor spirit
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#83
While we all enjoy the freedom to write, or not write what we like, it would have been interesting if you had addressed my post and the usage of a "sign" in scripture.
Signs are designed for those who rebel and do not believe prophecy. Prophecy God's declared thoughts are the one source of Christian faith. We do not seek after wonders .

Wondering is not believing " having faith". It is why when speaking of the greatest miracle "born again" .Jesus said to Nicodenmus; "marvel not" a commandment .Nicodemus coming from a signs and wonder teaching as a law of the fathers was warned of that wile of the devil . By and through signs and wonder God literally moved out his people killed the first born of all creatures to into his first born sons .The Pharaoh is signified as the god of this world ,he hates the word of God's prophecy .

Satan is an angel and thus a spirit. But you have assumed that God cannot chain a spirit. And I would not dismiss what John saw and reported under inspiration. It could be that the chains are metaphorical, but you have no reason to apply this. John saw what he saw and he called it a "great chain". I know you interpret by faith, but faith's first duty is to say that God's Word is what it is. The Holy Spirit could easily have said "a great spiritual rope".

I only need one reason. Spirits convey thoughts between creatures. It is by the Holy Spirit that works in us us to both will and do his good pleasure. Literal chains cannot bind a lying spirit. People in prison are given the faith of Christ just as those not chained .Its His Spirit that can bind or loose, lock or unlock the gates of hell. No literal chain .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

When one does not walk by faith therefore not having the hidden understanding in a parable they are shown a walking after the wrong manner. Three time he revealed to them the manner of faith hid in the parables and they believed not..

Luke9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Your assumption that the three mentions of 1,000 years are metaphorical difficult. I would say that based on normal grammar and usage of English (and Greek) that these three MOST POINTEDLY ARE LITERAL.
  1. In Psalm 90:4 the word "AS" makes them literal. If they were a metaphor it would read; "For a thousand years in thy sight are but yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."
  2. In Ecclesiastes 6:6 2,000 years is MEANT. The author wants to transmit the huge length of time.
  3. Again, in 2nd Peter 3:8, the word "AS" makes it a literal 1,000 years. Not only does Peter, under inspiration, give a number, but if it was NOT a thousand years the statement would be a lie. God would be misleading men.
But there is more. If you make the 1,000 years metaphorical you also reduce the length of Adam's life to a metaphor. Notice that in His reconstruction of the earth in six days, the Holy Spirit is careful to transmit the length of each day - "evening and morning". This is the Hebrew day - sunset to sunset.
But just as specific as the six times mentioned "evening and the morning" defines these days, so also is the it glaringly absent on the seventh. But it is not as if NO TIME was given for that first Sabbath. Adam was the last of six creatures made on the sixth day. Thus, his first real day would be the seventh. And God said to him that he would die IN that day he ate of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam lived 930 years. That would place His death WITHIN the Sabbath, ONLY IF GOD VIEW THE FIRST SABBATH AS 1,000 YEARS!
[/QUOTE]

No difficulty at all all 9 represent a unknown I t would sem that those who seek after a sign have turned it into a lying wonder .No faith

For a thousand years in thy sight are but yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." Not like a thousand literal nights past .But a undertermined time .We walk by faith not by sight.
In Ecclesiastes 6:6 2,000 years is MEANT literally ? If a person lived twice literally a thousand years each

2nd Peter 3:8, the word "AS" makes it a parable. . as not is 1,000 years.

But there is more. If you make the 1,000 years metaphorical you also reduce the length of Adam's life to a metaphor. Notice that in His reconstruction of the earth in six days, the Holy Spirit is careful to transmit the length of each day - "evening and morning". This is the Hebrew day - sunset to sunset.
The word thousand is not used in that example you gave. A day is a day, not a day is a thousand days
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#84
You cannot disregard the Old Testament. It is historic, it is there for us to study.

It describes the future in great detail
Do you think God was joking?

I'll be happy to show you passages that apply.

Thank you for your comments.

..
The historical temporal must be mixed with the unseen eternal when rightly dividing parables.

I offer below one of the 20/20 tools used to divide and reveal the gospel understanding

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

If we hear and do not mix, then we forfeit the rest of faith. . . hearing the gospel and believing God who works in us..

Keep learning what it means to mix faith in what your hear or see. Not by sight

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 

rhern

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
192
38
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#86
We are in the thousand year reign . I time like never before or ever again .Thousand represents a unknown to what ever is in view .We walk by faith the unseen will .Not after what the eyes see the temporal .

It is a evil generation natural unconverted mankind)that seeks after the thing seen as lying wonders . Why seek after any?

during the 1000 year Satan is is bound for 1000 years
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#87
during the 1000 year Satan is is bound for 1000 years
Yes not bound perfectly. That perfectly will not occur until death is cast into the final judgment .But bound from deceiving the whole world "all the nations" The gospel had nothing to do with one corrupted nation .God is not served by human hands, he moves men and kingdoms.

The new name the Father named the bride, "Christian" it denotes residents of the heaven city prepared as his bride .It was was a more befitting name to represent all the nations. A time like never before or ever again the last days is still working out the results of that 1st century reformation.

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season
 

rhern

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
192
38
28
#88
Yes not bound perfectly. That perfectly will not occur until death is cast into the final judgment .But bound from deceiving the whole world "all the nations" The gospel had nothing to do with one corrupted nation .God is not served by human hands, he moves men and kingdoms.

The new name the Father named the bride, "Christian" it denotes residents of the heaven city prepared as his bride .It was was a more befitting name to represent all the nations. A time like never before or ever again the last days is still working out the results of that 1st century reformation.

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season
" city prepared as his bride "

The Christians are the Body of Christ; We are not the bride----Look at Jeremiah 31:4 (ERV)

Jeremiah 31 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

1 This is what the Lord said, “At that time I will be the God of all the tribes of Israel. And they will be my people.”

2 This is what the Lord says:
“The people who escaped the enemy’s sword will find comfort in the desert.
Israel will go there looking for rest.”
3 From far away, the Lord
will appear to his people.
The Lord says, “I love you people with a love that continues forever.
That is why I have continued showing you kindness.
4 Israel, my bride, I will rebuild you.
You will be a country again.

...
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#89
" city prepared as his bride "

The Christians are the Body of Christ; We are not the bride----Look at Jeremiah 31:4 (ERV)

Jeremiah 31 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

1 This is what the Lord said, “At that time I will be the God of all the tribes of Israel. And they will be my people.”

2 This is what the Lord says:
“The people who escaped the enemy’s sword will find comfort in the desert.
Israel will go there looking for rest.”
3 From far away, the Lord
will appear to his people.
The Lord says, “I love you people with a love that continues forever.
That is why I have continued showing you kindness.
4 Israel, my bride, I will rebuild you.
You will be a country again.

...

The bride is the body or wife of Christ .Its all one in the same.

Remember all is Israel is not born again Israel. We walk by faith not be sight . A remnant could be inward born again Jews, one of the nations that make up the bride. The bride is never referred to as outward Jew according to the corrupted flesh of mankind.

The Israel, my bride, I will rebuild you. You will be a country or place of residency. It is speaking of the heavenly city of Christ prepared as the bride.

The Father renamed her called her Christian in the book of Acts . A more befitting name for the bride of all nations . we are on this side of the reformation .Satan can no longer deceive all the nations that the bride is only made up of outward Jews according to what the eyes see, the temporal.

We walk by faith (the unseen eternal) not be sight
 
Jul 11, 2020
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#90
MattforJesus

Are yyou Nostradamus the second or is it the third?!! Your interpretation of the scriptures you quoted I do not understand. To be frank, it makes no sense to me. means no harm please.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#91
Wrong; addressed and refuted repeatedly. Why can't you learn?
Thanks for the reply

Ok Dino who addresses and refutes repeatedly. LOL

Then to whom were the signs and wonders designed towards when God literally killed all the first born of those who did not believe prophecy. Unlike the believing Jew who was waiting for the 400 years in respect to the promise given to Abraham.

Was it a sign to support those who believed prophecy "the tongue of God" ? Or a sign and wonder of the first born that went backward slain in the Spirit as a sign against those who beleive not prophecy ?

You could say God's sign as a wonder ate up their sign and wonder to show the true .. .exposing the lying wonder.

Can't serve two teaching masters .Which one? Signs and wonders "no faith coming from prophecy" as oral tradition of mankind or prophecy the tongue of God's declared will?

Exodus 11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

What does the law in 1 Corinthians 14 declare .Does the sign supports prophecy or a sign against them that make prophecy without effect? And yet for all that they still seek after lying wonders. Rather that believing , exercising the faith that comes from hearing the tongue of God's Prophecy .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
13,791
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#92
Thanks for the reply

Ok Dino who addresses and refutes repeatedly. LOL

Then to whom were the signs and wonders designed towards when God literally killed all the first born of those who did not believe prophecy. Unlike the believing Jew who was waiting for the 400 years in respect to the promise given to Abraham.

Was it a sign to support those who believed prophecy "the tongue of God" ? Or a sign and wonder of the first born that went backward slain in the Spirit as a sign against those who beleive not prophecy ?

You could say God's sign as a wonder ate up their sign and wonder to show the true .. .exposing the lying wonder.

Can't serve two teaching masters .Which one? Signs and wonders "no faith coming from prophecy" as oral tradition of mankind or prophecy the tongue of God's declared will?

Exodus 11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

What does the law in 1 Corinthians 14 declare .Does the sign supports prophecy or a sign against them that make prophecy without effect? And yet for all that they still seek after lying wonders. Rather that believing , exercising the faith that comes from hearing the tongue of God's Prophecy .
This thread is not about tongues.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#93
This thread is not about tongues.
This thread is not about tongues.

I am aware of that. I did not make it about tongues I used it a a example of those who appose prophecy .You did to change the subject matter it would seem .

Wondering, marveling is not believing.

It why Jesus informed Nicodenmus to marvel not but rather believe when Jesus did speak of the greatest miracle "born again" Can't serve two kinds of teachers. Wondering or believing?

We are made aware of that wile of the evil one.

Will you answer in regard to the Exodus account ? This is when God moved the unbelievers out of the way thorough signs and wonders rather than believing prophecy. Left them wondering.??

Are signs and or with wonders designed to move unbelievers that refuse to hear prophecy "the word of God" ?

Surely according to your understanding there must be many verses that support that we can wonder (look I did it ) rather than believe prophecy . Signs are for those who have no faith that comes exclusively as it it written.(sola scriptura)

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

Do you seek a sign even though none are given? If so for what purpose? Perhaps not enough words in the Bible to give faith?

What is it above (Luke 11:29) that causes them to be evil?. Why are they seeking after signs and not faith ? Need time to wonder?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
13,791
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#94
I am aware of that. I did not make it about tongues I used it a a example of those who appose prophecy .You did to change the subject matter it would seem .
I didn't change the subject; your post mentioned 'tongue' twice.

This thread is not about prophecy in general either.

The word is "oppose", not "appose"; I have told you this before, but again, you just refuse to learn.
 

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
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#95
Many speak of the Reign of Christ as being a spiritual happening but it is going to be a physical experience.
I agree, i guess that as our time before the reign were in heaven, before we come back to reign with Christ, then we will have a sinless nature, and be just like Jesus.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#96
I didn't change the subject; your post mentioned 'tongue' twice.

This thread is not about prophecy in general either.

The word is "oppose", not "appose"; I have told you this before, but again, you just refuse to learn.
Thanks. Still learning. . .

Prophecy the tongue or language of God is that which the nations flow to. The subject matter.

Tongues is prophecy written in parables .They give us the unseen understanding. No need to wonder fall backward. . The parables provide the faith so we can hear God who is not a man. The gospel understanding takes away the need of natural man to wonder about the things not seen.

Without parables Christ spoke not through the Son of man Jesus. The prophet, apostle and High Priest of our calling.. I have told you this many, many times before, but again, you just refuse to learn.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#97
I believe in the glorified resurrected body, Jesus Christ was the first fruit of the resurrection.

The body of Jesus Christ was Flesh and Bone, no scripture indicates this body had blood or lungs to breathe air?

The Lord's glorified body ate physical earthly food, could walk through closed doors, and disappear from man's sight?

The glorified body won't be (Human) but (Spiritual) and this is a mystery, outside of that seen in the resurrected Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 15:44-49KJV
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
No one has received their glorified body .All die not having received it, (Hebrew 11): As sons of God, Christians, we are not what we will be as the bride of Christ. The two literally will by one new creation .No procreating needed .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
13,791
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#98
Prophecy the tongue or language of God is that which the nations flow to. The subject matter.
Prophecy is never called "the tongue of God" (or anything similar) in Scripture.

Tongues is prophecy written in parables .
There is nothing in Scripture to support your statement.

Without parables Christ spoke not through the Son of man Jesus.
There are two large problems with this statements: one is that you have taken Jesus' words out of context; and the other is that you have misunderstood the nature of Jesus Christ.

The passage you misquoted is Matthew 13:34 " All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them" (KJV). The problem is that you have interpreted this as an all-encompassing truth, which it isn't. You have overlooked the words, "unto them" where "them" refers to the multitude, not to the disciples. In the next few verses, Jesus explains the parable in plain language. If He does not speak except in parables, then His explanation to the disciples was also a parable. Clearly it is not.

You seem to have embraced the Marcionite heresy, believing that "Christ" came upon "Jesus" at some point. You have rejected the biblicaly sound teaching that Jesus IS the Messiah, or Christ. There is no separation between them.

I have told you this many, many times before, but again, you just refuse to learn.
I correct you where you are wrong. Your statements here are wrong, so you have not corrected me; you have only repeated your errors.