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Originally Posted by PlainWord
Does this happen before the Tribulation or after the Millennium? If after the Millennium, wouldn't it seem logical that 1 Thes 4 deals with this time period? We know the resurrection does.
How many resurrections after the milleneum are there?
Show us the verses.
Does this happen before the Tribulation or after the Millennium? If after the Millennium, wouldn't it seem logical that 1 Thes 4 deals with this time period? We know the resurrection does.
How many resurrections after the milleneum are there?
Show us the verses.
John 6:
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:
23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
Dan 12:
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Acts 24:
15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
21 unless it is for this one statement which I cried out, standing among them, 'Concerning the resurrection of the dead I am being judged by you this day.' "
Rev 20:
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
1 Thes 4:
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
All of the above describe the same event, the resurrection of the dead on the last day. Christ is already on earth, the last enemy He defeats is death. Christ raises up the dead and GOD the Father brings their souls with Him from heaven.
16 For the Lord Himself (GOD) will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Those who are still alive and remaining after the millennial reign of Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord (GOD) in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord (GOD).
1 Cor 15:
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
All of the above happen on the LAST DAY, not some day prior to Satan's Great Tribulation. Paul makes clear, only two resurrections.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ #1: the firstfruits, afterward #2: those who are Christ's at His (GOD'S) coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He (JESUS) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
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That's right. So you have to be a real student and study how Paul uses the word "Lord." The first letter Paul ever wrote was Galatians. In Galatians Paul used the word, "LORD" a total of six times. In each case Paul includes Jesus with the word "Lord" (or its clear from the context) making clear that he was speaking of Christ Jesus.
- Galatians 1:3 NKJV
Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
Read Galatians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations - Galatians 1:19 NKJV
But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother.
Read Galatians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations - Galatians 5:10 NKJV
I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
Read Galatians 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations - Galatians 6:14 NKJV
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Read Galatians 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations - Galatians 6:17 NKJV
From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Read Galatians 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations - Galatians 6:18 NKJV
Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.
The second letter Paul ever wrote was 1 Thessalonians. In this letter Paul uses the word, "LORD" 22 times. 11 of those times Paul uses "Jesus" with the word "LORD" 11 times he doesn't. The below is one of the times where Paul does NOT include "Jesus" with the word, "LORD."
8 For now we live, if you stand fast in the Lord. 9 For what thanks can we render to God for you, for all the joy with which we rejoice for your sake before our God,
From the text it appears Paul is speaking of God the Father here. Now see how Paul also refers to God.
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
Notice Paul refers to GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF??? The key is the emphasis on the word, "HIMSELF!!" Paul gives special emphasis to Himself because Paul is clearly referring to God the Father. Are you with me so far? Where else does Paul emphasize the word HIMSELF?? How about here?
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
Paul is clearly talking about the LORD GOD HIMSELF here. In none of the uses of the word "LORD" does Paul include the word Jesus. Paul clearly uses HIMSELF to emphasize that it is the Father in 3:11 so when he does it again just one page later the same emphasis applies.
Are you sure?
From the text, "Lord" (Kurio) clearly refers to Christ in whom we must stand fast in order to be saved.
Devout Jews stand fast but are not saved.
How Paul uses the word "Lord" is very simple in the Greek:
God (the Father) is theos, and
Lord (Jesus) is kurios.
"Himself" alters nothing regarding the two words.
From the text, "Lord" (Kurio) clearly refers to Christ in whom we must stand fast in order to be saved.
Devout Jews stand fast but are not saved.
How Paul uses the word "Lord" is very simple in the Greek:
God (the Father) is theos, and
Lord (Jesus) is kurios.
"Himself" alters nothing regarding the two words.
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P
Wow,this is really,really messed up.
factor this into your template;
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jehovah calls Jesus God.
Like I said before,factor out verses,cherry pick others and poof! We have a new doctrine
factor this into your template;
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jehovah calls Jesus God.
Like I said before,factor out verses,cherry pick others and poof! We have a new doctrine
I have to actually side with popeye on this one but he has the timing wrong. The Marriage is in heaven, See Rev 21. But this happens at the end of the age.
John 14:2 has absolutely nothing to do with the Marriage of the Lamb
. This verse tells us that God has a place in heaven for us (ALREADY BUILT) - "In my fathers house are (not going to be) many mansions..." Christ is not going to heaven to prepare those mansions. He is going to the Cross to prepare the way to heaven.
John 14:2 has absolutely nothing to do with the Marriage of the Lamb
. This verse tells us that God has a place in heaven for us (ALREADY BUILT) - "In my fathers house are (not going to be) many mansions..." Christ is not going to heaven to prepare those mansions. He is going to the Cross to prepare the way to heaven.Silly. There is no rapture in the middle of the Tribulation. I never stated that nor do I believe that. There is also no rapture immediately following the Tribulation either. The Wrath of God comes after the Tribulation and it is aimed at those who killed the saints. The Rapture is not associated with the return of Christ either. The rapture happens on the final day of earth, after the millennium. Christ raises up the dead but He is already on earth and those alive meet God in the air with the new heaven descending with God.
Poof, we have a new doctrine? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. You take a verse, 1 Thes 4:14, in which neither Jesus or God is speaking, as it is Paul speaking and take the word God and twist it into saying Jesus when the text doesn't say Jesus - it says God brings....
Let me ask you. Show me the passage which describes the very end of the planet spoken of by Paul. Peter tells us that the earth will dissolve with fervent heat (2 Pet 3). John tells us that a new heaven will come down (Rev 21) so show me the companion passage by Paul which describes how we on earth, both dead and alive, get from this old earth to that new heaven. If 1 Thes 4:13-18 isn't describing this, show me which passage does.
Let me ask you. Show me the passage which describes the very end of the planet spoken of by Paul. Peter tells us that the earth will dissolve with fervent heat (2 Pet 3). John tells us that a new heaven will come down (Rev 21) so show me the companion passage by Paul which describes how we on earth, both dead and alive, get from this old earth to that new heaven. If 1 Thes 4:13-18 isn't describing this, show me which passage does.
I don't care about what 1000 web sites might say nearly as much as I care about what the Bible actually says.
Now will you google it, to see the hundreds of websites that shows the Scriptures that shows it is a 7 year Tribulation Period? or as i said above, are you going to merely ignore and not do any research on it, to continue to believe as you do?
^i^
W
And the martyrs were the ones who live and reigns with Christ a thousand years. This is the first reserection ,on which the second death will have no power .But the rest of the dead did not rise then, for later said that at the end of the thousand year period that the earth and sea, death and hell all give up their dead, and will be judged out of the books and the book of life.
I was raised with the "7-year tribulation period" teaching. Later, through serious personal study of the scriptures, I discovered that it was not biblical.
A lot of people try to tie the 70th week of Dan 9:27 to Satan's Great Tribulation. The first 7 and 62 weeks do appear to be a series of 7 years per week from when the command to rebuild Jerusalem went out and until the Messiah came. However, when the last week happens or happened is unclear. Much of this passage is unclear and remains pure speculation.
Nothing in Revelation discusses a 7 year period. There are periods of 1,260 days and periods of 42 months. What connection, if any, they have to Daniel's 70th week is also unclear. There is no mention of any covenant being made or broken in Revelation. If Daniel was speaking of Titus destruction of Jerusalem in 67-73 AD, then Dan 9 is in the past. In Revelation, John makes no reference to destruction of Jerusalem.
John mentions a "man" who blasphemes God, His name, His tabernacle, and those in heaven (13:6) but there is no clear connection of this to Dan 9:27. This "man" wages war against the saints, and overcomes them, and this appears to last 42 months but even that is unclear. There does seem to be a better connection with Rev 13:6 to Dan 11:36 but we cannot know if they are the same event. I see more in common with these passages than I do Dan 9:27. In any event, Gary is right, nothing says the Great Tribulation lasts 7 years.
Also, nothing says the temple in Jerusalem (a new 3rd one) is built and that this temple is where the Man of Sin (King of the North) sets up an Abomination or makes his claim to be above all called God. There is so much speculation out there and so many things that are unclear that many Christians accept as fact. This is a dangerous habit and Gary is correct to test these assumptions against the Word.
It seems very clear to me!
I believe the scriptures actually [ specifically ] indicate that there will be no 3rd temple built...