All the evidence you will ever need to trash the false pre-trib rapture

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A

AtonedFor

Guest
#81
... when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place; And it will. Many who did not believe in Christ taking his body of believers home at any moment will repent of their unbelief because they have been left behind.
Yes folks, we duz have another "Left Behind" brainwashed advocate!

WARNING!
The Spirit-filled BACs on Internet radio do NOT believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.


We are going to go through the worst persecution in history!


Problem is: Who knows what "Spirit-filled" means? Who are these folks?
It's no wonder that people do not respect these folks!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#82
Yes folks, we duz have another "Left Behind" brainwashed advocate!

WARNING!
The Spirit-filled BACs on Internet radio do NOT believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.


We are going to go through the worst persecution in history!


Problem is: Who knows what "Spirit-filled" means? Who are these folks?
Stop referring to believers as BACs. Believers are real people with real names.

Also, the name calling and lack of Scripture at this point is just letting me know that you are not being truly Christian here. Believers are supposed to be loving and long suffering towards one another. Please at least act like a brother, my friend.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#83
LOL!! I have never, ever seen so many crybabies so intimidated by the pre-trib doctrine. Some of you guys just simply have too much time on your hand.
Hey Biscuits and gravy a couple of things.....

1. Was raised, believed and dogmatically argued pre-trib doctrine.....
2. Too many scriptures that contradicted it stand out in scriptures
3. Changed my mind as it simply is not true
4. The only crybabies are those who make statements like what you made.
5. Many will loose faith when Jesus does not magically appear and the saved do not disappear en masse

Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, 2nd Thessalonians 2, Daniel, Revelation, The parable of the wheat and tares, Acts 1 all off the top of my head all have statements that contradict the imminent return of Christ!
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#84
Same here, I believed in a pre-trib rapture tell 2005.
That is when I started studying the word for myself, instead of listening to the main stream group of bible teachers out there. And saw how scriptures point to a post tribulation rapture........
Studying for myself to see what the word says is what changed my mind... I suppose like most I simply listened to what others were saying... after all the book stores are full of books about it. But, that is not what THE Book teaches... unless you can take one verse and make it look like truth. Oh, wait. That's already happened.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#85
[video=youtube;pIj47X960pw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIj47X960pw[/video]
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#86
Hey Biscuits and gravy a couple of things.....

1. Was raised, believed and dogmatically argued pre-trib doctrine.....
2. Too many scriptures that contradicted it stand out in scriptures
3. Changed my mind as it simply is not true
4. The only crybabies are those who make statements like what you made.
5. Many will loose faith when Jesus does not magically appear and the saved do not disappear en masse

Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, 2nd Thessalonians 2, Daniel, Revelation, The parable of the wheat and tares, Acts 1 all off the top of my head all have statements that contradict the imminent return of Christ!
These types of posts invite confrontations that no one wins, therefore, I will let the coyotes & wolves fight it out. The OP threw a bone out near a pack of hungry animals and they are willing to devour one another over it. Is this Christian-like? I say it is exactly what thrill Satan and his disciples watching Christians devour each other. It is so silly because dozens of threads on this issue has been displayed ... tell me? are we any closer to an answer?

I just poked my head in the fracas just to say, stop acting like a bunch of 5 year olds in a sandbox fighting over one piece of candy.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#87
Studying for myself to see what the word says is what changed my mind... I suppose like most I simply listened to what others were saying... after all the book stores are full of books about it. But, that is not what THE Book teaches... unless you can take one verse and make it look like truth. Oh, wait. That's already happened.

That happens all the time, people making scriptures say what they want.
Those who believe in a pre-trib still can not explain how Revelation says that Christians will be persecuted and killed during the tribulation, and how 1 Corinthians says the rapture happens at the last trumpet, not before the first trumpet is even sounded.
Then on top of that the scriptures that say we will not be here to face and endure God's wrath, and Revelation clearly says that God's wrath is poured out after the end of the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation. Which happens to be the 7th, or last trumpet.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#88
Studying for myself to see what the word says is what changed my mind... I suppose like most I simply listened to what others were saying... after all the book stores are full of books about it. But, that is not what THE Book teaches... unless you can take one verse and make it look like truth. Oh, wait. That's already happened.
Same here for sure.....two verses out of context is what is usually used...In a moment at the twinkling of an eye and As a thief in the night......neither one have anything to do with his coming, but rather are pointed at the circumstances surrounding the coming....

1. The quickness of our change and resurrection<--moment twinkling of an eye statement
2. Like a thief<---the world and professed Christianity will not be expecting his return-->Paul told church at Thessalonica that they were not in darkness and that day would not OVERTAKE THEM AS A THIEF
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#89
Dear Biscuit:

I believe it is very important to look for the blessed hope and to declare that truth to others. If one does not care about this truth, then how can they appreciate it in being a part of it. In other words, I will defend the truth that is in God's Word. Not so as to fight over it like a piece of candy for the sake of fighting. But to stand up for Jesus Christ and what He teaches in love and in truth. For God wants us to trust in Him by faith. That is what this is all about. Do we believe God's Word or are we making God's Word say something we want it to say.

This is an important issue, because those who do not believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture are guaranteed to go thru the Tribulation if they are still alive. My discussion here is done in love so that they will not have to go the Tribulation.
 
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Anonimous

Guest
#90
Actually, God Word says that person who says the Lord is delaying his coming is compared to being like an evil servant. In other words, when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place; And it will. Many who did not believe in Christ taking his body of believers home at any moment will repent of their unbelief because they have been left behind.
Hmmm. first, by not believing in a pre-trib rapture is not mocking or denying anything. Whether a person believes in pre-mid-post doesn't matter... at least not as far as salvation is concerned... we are saved because of Jesus' sacrifice and taking Him as Lord and Savior. No one has been saved by a doctrine. Personally, a pre-trib would be nice... but in anycase... I would rather spent the time that He has given living for Him right now and right here. Too many people obsess about the rapture as if what He commands us to do right now is all there is... just sit back and wait. Waiting on the Lord is one thing. But, sitting back and often ignoring what He has said is another.

Many Pre believers (not all mind you), but, many live with the attitude that I'll be out of here way before the nastiness and trails, tests, and tribulation comes... why worry about it.

I have even saw posts on this site where "christians" have told other believers (their brothers and sisters in Christ) to enjoy their time in hell because they didn't believe in a pre-trib rapture. "Pretty ignorant", I thought to myself.

The disciples of Jesus didn't know wen he would return... and Jesus, when asked, basically said, "None of your business. I have a job for you... now do it and will give you everything you need to get it done.

So, don't worry my fellow believer... do the job He has given and leave the departure date in His hands.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#91
Dear Biscuit:

I believe it is very important to look for the blessed hope and to declare that truth to others. If one does not care about this truth, then how can they appreciate it in being a part of it. In other words, I will defend the truth that is in God's Word. Not so as to fight over it like a piece of candy for the sake of fighting. But to stand up for Jesus Christ and what He teaches in love and in truth. For God wants us to trust in Him by faith. That is what this is all about. Do we believe God's Word or are we making God's Word say something we want it to say.

This is an important issue, because those who do not believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture are guaranteed to go thru the Tribulation if they are still alive. My discussion here is done in love so that they will not have to go the Tribulation.
Don't worry as you will be right here with us...... ;)
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#92
Dear Biscuit:

I believe it is very important to look for the blessed hope and to declare that truth to others. If one does not care about this truth, then how can they appreciate it in being a part of it. In other words, I will defend the truth that is in God's Word. Not so as to fight over it like a piece of candy for the sake of fighting. But to stand up for Jesus Christ and what He teaches in love and in truth. For God wants us to trust in Him by faith. That is what this is all about. Do we believe God's Word or are we making God's Word say something we want it to say.

This is an important issue, because those who do not believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture are guaranteed to go thru the Tribulation if they are still alive. My discussion here is done in love so that they will not have to go the Tribulation.
If you feel that strongly about it ... then you have my blessing.
 
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Brighthouse

Guest
#93
john those talked about in rev 14 are already in heaven. Jesus brings them down with him,they are not on the earth at the time.hehe And Kenneth you say there has to be believers,but none are spoken of,and why does there have to be believers at the end? All the saints have already been killed!Rev 11 verse 7-10 You have not shown me in scripture any believers left bro hehe After rev 13:8
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#94
Apostle John said Antichrist is already there in his time, and antichrist is from within, not from outside the Church. So Antichrist phenomena is battle

within the church not outsider vs church. Antichrist must pretend to be christian and it is ongoing battle from the apostle John time to the end.

Jesuit try to twist it and give an overview that Antichrist only happen in the end time not now. It because protestant at that time believe that Catholic is Antichrist and it on going process from Apostle John to the end/second coming.

If it not happen now than there is no antichrist yet and Catholic is not Antichrist.

I guest by saying Antichrist time only happen the last tribulation and the church is gone by that time, so Apostle John is wrong, when he said Antichrist come from within/church. How came? Church is gone.

If the church is gone the only possible is the Antichrist in the last day come from outside/not the church.

1 John 2:
know that it is the last hour.
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…

Left Behind by the Jesuits - Scriptures Prove Secret Pre ...


www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html



 
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Brighthouse

Guest
#95
BrotheraTonedFor I understand your point, but cannot agree with him,and here is why bro,just something for you to consider is all! 1 cor 14:40 and in the church which we are a part of, there to me is order. " But ALL THINGS must be done properly and in an orderly manner.i know this is talking about the gifts here,but I truly believe in christ Jesus all things have purpose,and all things are done in order by him. So we can agree to disagree bro
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#96
john those talked about in rev 14 are already in heaven. Jesus brings them down with him,they are not on the earth at the time.hehe And Kenneth you say there has to be believers,but none are spoken of,and why does there have to be believers at the end? All the saints have already been killed!Rev 11 verse 7-10 You have not shown me in scripture any believers left bro hehe After rev 13:8

Who are the one's living on the earth that believe in our Lord Jesus during His 1,000 year millennial reign ?
Those from Revelation 14:13 can not be in heaven already for the dead can not die again, unless they are unbelievers and get burnt to dust in the lake of fire ( Malachi 4:3 ). What saints and/or Christians are being persecuted and killed by the antichrist tell the end of the great tribulation?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#97
Apostle John said Antichrist is already there in his time, and antichrist is from within, not from outside the Church. So Antichrist phenomena is battle

within the church not outsider vs church. Antichrist must pretend to be christian and it is ongoing battle from the apostle John time to the end.

Jesuit try to twist it and give an overview that Antichrist only happen in the end time not now. It because protestant at that time believe that Catholic is Antichrist and it on going process from Apostle John to the end/second coming.

If it not happen now than there is no antichrist yet and Catholic is not Antichrist.

I guest by saying Antichrist time only happen the last tribulation and the church is gone by that time, so Apostle John is wrong, when he said Antichrist come from within/church. How came? Church is gone.

If the church is gone the only possible is the Antichrist in the last day come from outside/not the church.

1 John 2:
know that it is the last hour.
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…

Left Behind by the Jesuits - Scriptures Prove Secret Pre ...


www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/Jesuits.html




He said the spirit of the antichrist is hear already, for it is in everybody that does not believe in or are against the Lord our God. But he as well as Paul point to a main one man figure, as the man of sin, man of perdition, antichrist, and the old testament give him even more names. Yes there will be a world system in the last days, but that system will be lead by one main evil figure and his second in command the false prophet will force people to worship him.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#98
john those talked about in rev 14 are already in heaven. Jesus brings them down with him,they are not on the earth at the time.hehe And Kenneth you say there has to be believers,but none are spoken of,and why does there have to be believers at the end? All the saints have already been killed!Rev 11 verse 7-10 You have not shown me in scripture any believers left bro hehe After rev 13:8
No one EVER goes to heaven...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

I am not going to recreate that discussion here but the reward of the saved is on earth. We don't go to heaven, Christ returns to the earth, rules for the Millennium, the Last Great Day and then the Father brings New Jerusalem to earth. We don't go there, He comes here.

Just out of curiosity, where do these come from?

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This is at the last trump, the return of Christ to the earth.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#99
Hmmm. first, by not believing in a pre-trib rapture is not mocking or denying anything. Whether a person believes in pre-mid-post doesn't matter... at least not as far as salvation is concerned... we are saved because of Jesus' sacrifice and taking Him as Lord and Savior. No one has been saved by a doctrine. Personally, a pre-trib would be nice... but in anycase... I would rather spent the time that He has given living for Him right now and right here.
This is the part of Scripture I am referring to.

Matthew 24:48-51
"But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In other words, folks are saying the Lord is delaying his coming to a time they say, rather than believing that the Lord will come in a day that they look for him not. This passage says this person is an evil servant.

So they will miss out on the Rapture. As for their salvation, that is up to God.

Too many people obsess about the rapture
Because many Christians love people and do not want other folks to go thru the Tribulation. The other views does not really mattter if I believe in them or not. The Pre-Trib Rapture position that is Biblical is the only position that actually will have consequences in not believing in it. Just as not believing in Jesus Christ will have consequences.

as if what He commands us to do right now is all there is... just sit back and wait. Waiting on the Lord is one thing. But, sitting back and often ignoring what He has said is another.
There are actually a ton of verses in Scripture that support the Pre-Trib Rapture. I cannot see how someone cannot see it, unless they are intentionally ignoring other verses.

However, the other Rapture positions do not make any sense.

No Mid-trib Rapture:

The Rapture cannot be during the middle of the tribulation because those who are beheaded for Christ in the tribulation (Revelation 20:4) and who are later identified as being the saints who were martyred in the tribulation are of a great multitude from all nations that no man could number (Revelation 7:9) (Revelation 7:13-14).

In other words, you have a population problem. If the tribulation saints are raptured before the Anti-Christ kills the saints then you have a contradiction because there will not be any saints to kill. If the tribulation saints are raptured after being martyred then God really is not doing his job of saving his saints all that well from the wrath to come then. For the wrath to come is the "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus after the abomination of desolations takes place at the mid point of the tribulation.

So, if all the remaining true believers in Christ from all nations are Raptured at the midpoint of the tribulation after the the Anti-christ beheads and kills them for refusing the mark of the beast, then how exactly is God saving them from the Wrath to come mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 1:10? Or how does the population of believers boom overnight from all nations if the Rapture happens before the enforcement of the Mark?

No Post-Trib Rapture:

The Rapture cannot be near or at the Second Coming of Christ because they are not being saved up into Heaven but they will be gathered as eagles or fowl to eat the flesh of kings and captains at the supper of our Great God (i.e. the Marriage Supper of the Lamb). Oh, and no, believers are not going to eat people. It is speaking metaphorically how they will utterly defeat the wicked people who remain on the Earth and refuse to repent.

Hebrews 9:28 KJV - "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

To put it to you another way, the above passage here is talking about Christ appearing a second time without sin being imputed to him (like with his first appearance), but unto the purpose of salvation. For Christ's second appearance here is dealing with salvation and not judgment; Which perfectly fits the context of discussion in Hebrews chapter 9.

For the context of Hebrews 9 deals with Christ entering the Holy Place once and for all. For the description of the rites and sacrifices of the law were far inferior to the dignity and perfection of the sacrifice of Christ. For Christ is our mediator and redemption from sin; In other words, Christ is our salvation. Which is the topic of discussion mentioned in verse 28.

And here is the same passage in the ESV.

Hebrews 9:28 ESV - "So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."

Which again says that Christ is appearing not to deal with sin but to SAVE those who are waiting for him.

Now, your probably thinking to yourself, how is that a problem, right? Is not Christ saving the elect at His Second Coming?

Well, at Christ's Second Coming, Jesus is not so much saving the elect from the events at Armageddon, but He is gathering them to fight there. Which means the saints taken up at Christ's Second Coming will be partaking in executing Christ's Judgment upon the Earth. Which is not really the same thing as Christ appearing so as to save His elect from something. How so?

Luke 17:34-37

"
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the
eagles be gathered together.

Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying


"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

In other words, at the Second Coming of Christ, the elect (or the fowls or the eagles) will be gathered to battle those who remain on the Earth or gather to the supper of the Great God to eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of captains. This of course is speaking metaphorically. The saints are not going to really eat people, but they are going to defeat the wicked people of this world in the final battle with Christ.

And the Rapture will be an event that will save the saints from having to go thru the Great Tribulation. For this letter from Jesus Christ to this church says....

Revelation 2:21-22 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold,
I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

Many Pre believers (not all mind you), but, many live with the attitude that I'll be out of here way before the nastiness and trails, tests, and tribulation comes... why worry about it.
These are the folks who probably do not even know where in the Bible it even talks about the Rapture and or in how to adequately defend it using Scripture.

I have even saw posts on this site where "christians" have told other believers (their brothers and sisters in Christ) to enjoy their time in hell because they didn't believe in a pre-trib rapture. "Pretty ignorant", I thought to myself.
They are not real Christians then. For he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8). For Jesus said there will be wolves in sheep's clothing who would be among us. Also see Jude.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
No, Matthew 24:48-51 is people saying the Lord is delaying to use it as an excuse not to obey His commands and keep doing what they want, being hateful, staying in a sin, and so forth. Thinking they will have time to repent later, not knowing or caring that their life can be taken at any moment eliminating any chance to repent.

Example: You believe the Lord is delaying His coming so you keep living a life in willful sin, or hatred, disobeying the Lord's commands to walk properly. Then the antichrist shows up tomorrow with his followers and kills you, you lost your one and only change to repent and ask forgiveness of your sins because you disobeyed and delayed being saved because of wanting to do for self and not for Him.



This is the part of Scripture I am referring to.

Matthew 24:48-51
"But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In other words, folks are saying the Lord is delaying his coming to a time they say, rather than believing that the Lord will come in a day that they look for him not. This passage says this person is an evil servant.

So they will miss out on the Rapture. As for their salvation, that is up to God.



Because many Christians love people and do not want other folks to go thru the Tribulation. The other views does not really mattter if I believe in them or not. The Pre-Trib Rapture position that is Biblical is the only position that actually will have consequences in not believing in it. Just as not believing in Jesus Christ will have consequences.



There are actually a ton of verses in Scripture that support the Pre-Trib Rapture. I cannot see how someone cannot see it, unless they are intentionally ignoring other verses.

However, the other Rapture positions do not make any sense.

No Mid-trib Rapture:

The Rapture cannot be during the middle of the tribulation because those who are beheaded for Christ in the tribulation (Revelation 20:4) and who are later identified as being the saints who were martyred in the tribulation are of a great multitude from all nations that no man could number (Revelation 7:9) (Revelation 7:13-14).

In other words, you have a population problem. If the tribulation saints are raptured before the Anti-Christ kills the saints then you have a contradiction because there will not be any saints to kill. If the tribulation saints are raptured after being martyred then God really is not doing his job of saving his saints all that well from the wrath to come then. For the wrath to come is the "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus after the abomination of desolations takes place at the mid point of the tribulation.

So, if all the remaining true believers in Christ from all nations are Raptured at the midpoint of the tribulation after the the Anti-christ beheads and kills them for refusing the mark of the beast, then how exactly is God saving them from the Wrath to come mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 1:10? Or how does the population of believers boom overnight from all nations if the Rapture happens before the enforcement of the Mark?

No Post-Trib Rapture:

The Rapture cannot be near or at the Second Coming of Christ because they are not being saved up into Heaven but they will be gathered as eagles or fowl to eat the flesh of kings and captains at the supper of our Great God (i.e. the Marriage Supper of the Lamb). Oh, and no, believers are not going to eat people. It is speaking metaphorically how they will utterly defeat the wicked people who remain on the Earth and refuse to repent.

Hebrews 9:28 KJV - "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

To put it to you another way, the above passage here is talking about Christ appearing a second time without sin being imputed to him (like with his first appearance), but unto the purpose of salvation. For Christ's second appearance here is dealing with salvation and not judgment; Which perfectly fits the context of discussion in Hebrews chapter 9.

For the context of Hebrews 9 deals with Christ entering the Holy Place once and for all. For the description of the rites and sacrifices of the law were far inferior to the dignity and perfection of the sacrifice of Christ. For Christ is our mediator and redemption from sin; In other words, Christ is our salvation. Which is the topic of discussion mentioned in verse 28.

And here is the same passage in the ESV.

Hebrews 9:28 ESV - "So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."

Which again says that Christ is appearing not to deal with sin but to SAVE those who are waiting for him.

Now, your probably thinking to yourself, how is that a problem, right? Is not Christ saving the elect at His Second Coming?

Well, at Christ's Second Coming, Jesus is not so much saving the elect from the events at Armageddon, but He is gathering them to fight there. Which means the saints taken up at Christ's Second Coming will be partaking in executing Christ's Judgment upon the Earth. Which is not really the same thing as Christ appearing so as to save His elect from something. How so?

Luke 17:34-37

"
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the
eagles be gathered together.

Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying


"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

In other words, at the Second Coming of Christ, the elect (or the fowls or the eagles) will be gathered to battle those who remain on the Earth or gather to the supper of the Great God to eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of captains. This of course is speaking metaphorically. The saints are not going to really eat people, but they are going to defeat the wicked people of this world in the final battle with Christ.

And the Rapture will be an event that will save the saints from having to go thru the Great Tribulation. For this letter from Jesus Christ to this church says....

Revelation 2:21-22 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold,
I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."



These are the folks who probably do not even know where in the Bible it even talks about the Rapture and or in how to adequately defend it using Scripture.



They are not real Christians then. For he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8). For Jesus said there will be wolves in sheep's clothing who would be among us. Also see Jude.