All the evidence you will ever need to trash the false pre-trib rapture

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biscuit

Guest
#121
#121
dcontroversal said:
There was no confrontation whatsoever at all in my post.....it seems that you get easily offended sometimes and start posting posts like the one here....I stated the facts as to why I believe what I believe (summarized that is) and if it offends you and what you say is true then why did you even enter this thread and post your original statement?
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My post wasn't about you but referring to those who continue debating an unwinnable subject. No lack of sensitivity here because I avoided those types thread. It sounds as though you are the one who got offended.

Basically, I made a general statement without regards to you.
 
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Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#122
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#122
you know I am all for debating for the purpose of learning teaching and edifying but I have never seen this happen with these types of threads, has anyone else? I am sincerely asking has anyone ever seen anything good come from these types of debates? I do understand that these things are surely something to debate in order to understand the truth but mostly I think the enemy just uses these things for amusement. I can easily see him sitting somewhere rolling on the floor laughing and mocking at us because of what these debates do to us and what we say like all the attacks and hurtful things.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#123
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#123
Blain said:
you know I am all for debating for the purpose of learning teaching and edifying but I have never seen this happen with these types of threads, has anyone else? I am sincerely asking has anyone ever seen anything good come from these types of debates? I do understand that these things are surely something to debate in order to understand the truth but mostly I think the enemy just uses these things for amusement. I can easily see him sitting somewhere rolling on the floor laughing and mocking at us because of what these debates do to us and what we say like all the attacks and hurtful things.
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Dear Blain:

First, people mock in other important thread topics, too. Heated debates are not isolated to just the Rapture, my friend. Even the topics concerning the Biblical fact that Jesus is God folks have gotten silly and childish. In other words, people will act childish regardless of the topic. They act this way not because of the topic but because of who they are. Second, by your reply here, I am going to assume that you do not believe that having a belief in the Pre-Trib Rapture is that important of a topic to you. However, if a believer truly understands what the Pre-Trib Rapture is all about according to Scripture, they will want to defend it because they do not want to see other believers go thru the Tribulation because they care and love them. Third, I have not initiated any attack against anyone here. Nor have I resorted to their level in name calling or in having a strong hostility towards me. I tried to keep the topics on point with what the Bible says. It is only when folks want to sling mud at me is when I will point out their own lack of being Christ-like or loving.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#124
#124
Jason0047 said:
No, I don't believe I haven't gone too far, my dear lady. Scripture says those who think the Lord delays his coming with that of an evil servant. For they were not watching and wating for his return. See. Folks who think the Lord is coming later ARE NOT watching for His return and looking for that blessed hope. I am looking for that blessed hope. I know folks will miss out on it because of unbelief in God's Word AND in not preparing themselves along with looking for Him. In other words, a person can prepare in being righteous for God, but if they do not actually believe correctly according to the Scriptures, then their faith is not grounded properly in God's Word by the Spirit.
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Like I said though you only use half that passage to defend your stance.
The whole context of that passage is of those who are saying He is delaying so that they can continue to sin, treat others badly, and live however they want. Not worrying about repenting of their ways because they believe they have all the time in the world to do it.
There are those of us who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture by scripture evidence, but we are still ready for we live every day for Him.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#125
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#125
kennethcadwell said:
Like I said though you only use half that passage to defend your stance.
The whole context of that passage is of those who are saying He is delaying so that they can continue to sin, treat others badly, and live however they want. Not worrying about repenting of their ways because they believe they have all the time in the world to do it. There are those of us who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture by scripture evidence, but we are still ready for we live every day for Him.
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No, I already mentioned how one can be unfaithful and believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture and miss out on the Rapture. This is because they have a spurious faith and not a deep relationship with the Lord. They do not have any root.
 
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AtonedFor

Guest
#126
#126
Blain said:
I am sincerely asking has anyone ever seen anything good come
from these types of debates?
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Are you serious?
Personally, I am warning that MANY believers are NOT prepared for what is coming upon them
... simply because they have been taught to trust in a false pre-tribulation rapture.
Along with believing in the false doctrine of OSAS, many of these poor souls will end up in hell.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#127
#127
AtonedFor said:
Are you serious?
Personally, I am warning that MANY believers are NOT prepared for what is coming upon them
... simply because they have been taught to trust in a false pre-tribulation rapture.
Along with believing in the false doctrine of OSAS, many of these poor souls will end up in hell.
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rejoicingly, Those who are born again and have no fear of death, because they believe in OSAS will make it whether they go through tribulation or not. Their hope and joy is in heaven, not what occurs to them on earth.

the ones who have to fear are those who have no hope and security in heaven, because they believe in your false gospel of works, and pride and self righteousness, and reject the righteousness of Christ.



 
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AtonedFor

Guest
#128
#128

Like I have warned before ...
Satan's workers are always guarding the door 24-7
... to attack God's anointed preachers of His truth.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#129
#129
AtonedFor said:

Like I have warned before ...
Satan's workers are always guarding the door 24-7
... to attack God's anointed preachers of His truth.
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yep, your proof of this.

Satan does not want anyone to have assurance of salvation, If they did, He would have no power over them, You give satan a means to have power over them, because you deny assurance.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#130
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#130
1 John 5:13
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#131
#131
Jason0047 said:
1 John 5:13
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
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Amen, if we do not KNOW we HAVE (present tense) Eternal life. it would be far to easy to stop believing in Jesus, and go back to believing in ourself.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#132
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#132
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen, if we do not KNOW we HAVE (present tense) Eternal life. it would be far to easy to stop believing in Jesus, and go back to believing in ourself.
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No doubt and John 3:16 teaches clearly... For God so loved the world (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten Son and WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in HIM should not perish, but have (IS HAVING) (present tense) everlasting life....

The tense of the verb blares loudly...

I presently have eternal life when I believed
I presently have eternal life right now
I continue to have everlasting life into the future

A present continuing result based upon a past COMPLETED ACTION.....BY FAITH!
 
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AtonedFor

Guest
#133
#133
dcontroversal said:
John 3:16 teaches clearly...
For God so loved the world (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten Son and WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in HIM should not perish, but have (IS HAVING) (present tense) everlasting life....
The tense of the verb blares loudly...
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John 3:16 teaches clearly...
For God so loved the world (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten Son
and WHOSOEVER (CONTINUOUSLY) BELIEVES in HIM should not perish,
but have (CONTINUES TO HAVE) (present tense) everlasting life....

Check it out.

And what about the 15 passages that scream at you ...
The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of his/her life to be saved

Yes you! ... you will be held responsible for ignoring and rejecting them!!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#134
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#134
AtonedFor said:
John 3:16 teaches clearly...
For God so loved the world (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten Son
and WHOSOEVER (CONTINUOUSLY) BELIEVES in HIM should not perish,
but have (CONTINUES TO HAVE) (present tense) everlasting life....

Check it out.

And what about the 15 passages that scream at you ...
The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of his/her life to be saved

Yes you! ... you will be held responsible for ignoring and rejecting them!!!
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I suggest you study a little more as the GREEK of JOHN 3:16 and NOT the KINGS ENGLISH states clearly that IT is a presently CONTINUING RESULT based upon a PAST COMPLETED action.....

I also SUGGEST CONTEXT and a STUDY of the word SAVED as the WORD does not necessarily mean soul SALVATION.....

As far as YOU last statement......Good luck with your watered down works for salvation and I suggest Galatians chapter 1 and chapter 3 as people who teach FAITH plus WORKS to gain or keep salvation teach a DOUBLE CURSED FALSE GOSPEL with no power to SAVE!
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#135
#135
The charge that post-tribbers view the Lord as "long in coming" is not logical. "Long in coming" is not about imminence, but about losing patience and losing faithfulness.
If the master is away, and says "I will send a messenger ahead of me a few hours before my return", and ten years goes by, the imminence never changes, and whether or not people believe in the signs before His Coming does not change their level of Faith or patience.
There is no connective logic for claiming post tribbers are the "unfaithful servants". It doesn't make sense.
If you are watching for the signs, then you are remaining watchful. If you believe no signs will be given, then you are not watching for them. Think about it.
I'm not saying post trib is definitively correct, or that pre trib is false, but that neither view is critical enough to the Gospel to make salvation judgements based on a person's understanding of the Word.
 
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Sophia

Guest
#136
#136
^my last post was in response to this quote. I forgot to use the quote function thing.
Jason0047 said:
No, I don't believe I haven't gone too far, my dear lady. Scripture says those who think the Lord delays his coming with that of an evil servant. For they were not watching and wating for his return. See. Folks who think the Lord is coming later ARE NOT watching for His return and looking for that blessed hope. I am looking for that blessed hope. I know folks will miss out on it because of unbelief in God's Word AND in not preparing themselves along with looking for Him. In other words, a person can prepare in being righteous for God, but if they do not actually believe correctly according to the Scriptures, then their faith is not grounded properly in God's Word by the Spirit.
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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#137
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#137
AtonedFor said:
Are you serious?
Personally, I am warning that MANY believers are NOT prepared for what is coming upon them
... simply because they have been taught to trust in a false pre-tribulation rapture.
Along with believing in the false doctrine of OSAS, many of these poor souls will end up in hell.
Click to expand...
If they are believers they cannot wind up as you say in hell. You are not preaching sound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#138
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#138
AtonedFor said:

Like I have warned before ...
Satan's workers are always guarding the door 24-7
... to attack God's anointed preachers of His truth.
Click to expand...
You have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting. You claim yourself an anointed preacher? Who would anoint you other than yourself?

The Bereans were more noble and checked the scriptures to see if what was said was in the scriptures.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Sophia

Guest
#139
#139
AtonedFor said:
Are you serious?
Personally, I am warning that MANY believers are NOT prepared for what is coming upon them
... simply because they have been taught to trust in a false pre-tribulation rapture.
Along with believing in the false doctrine of OSAS, many of these poor souls will end up in hell.
Click to expand...
Are our hearts prepared by the Spirit, or by our own understanding? Are our souls edified by our own minds, or the mind of Christ?
Stop making a person's opinions about these things (which are NOT yet revealed) somehow significant or even relative to their salvation. Opinions. Not even doctrine. But even if it were solid enough to be called doctrine:
Does doctrine save us? No. It is by the Grace and Mercy of our Lord. How is it that the faith of a child is praised by Jesus? Because they don't claim to understand all the little details, they just accept, believe, and obey.
 
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Sophia

Guest
#140
#140
Discuss the topic for the sake of edification, not for the sake of condemning all who disagree with you. This goes to everyone, on both sides. There are men of great Faith who stand on both sides of this issue... and there are some of very little faith also standing on both sides. Don't let pride ruin you. Build up your FELLOW Believers. Stop trying to make enemies out of your brethren. Clashing about these little things is how iron sharpens iron, like two knights sparring for training, but don't start stabbing the other person.
 
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