AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?
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E
Ok Mr TWISTY, You act as if I do not know the law. I know it quite well. It is what brought me to Christ in the first place
So again I ask. Why has your church not done this?
Yes, Just like the church is commanded to do. The three step forms of disciplie. But thats not my question. If we are under law, and God has not abolished it as people say, Why are we not still doing the works of the law?
You can't have it both ways,
No the law is not abolished,
But yes it is..
see how foolish this sounds, yet this is what karraster and her groupies keep telling us..
So again I ask. Why has your church not done this?
Yes, Just like the church is commanded to do. The three step forms of disciplie. But thats not my question. If we are under law, and God has not abolished it as people say, Why are we not still doing the works of the law?
You can't have it both ways,
No the law is not abolished,
But yes it is..
see how foolish this sounds, yet this is what karraster and her groupies keep telling us..
K
Yeah, it is a sweet deal, all sugar coated by the devil himself. The bad Jews get all the curses and the good Christians get all the blessings. Even the "sweet baby Jesus" stories, all by design to have people thinking when He returns it will be as a little Lamb.
Ya know, on that note, the deceiver had the world thinking, back in Messiah's day, that He would come as a Lion, of the Tribe of Judah, that He would conquer and rule with a rod of iron. But He came as the suffering servant, the Passover Lamb, and fooled many. Now the deceiver has most of the world thinking He will return as a Lamb, all meek and lowly, there is no hell really, or judgement, for all one has to do is believe. Right? Wrong! Even demons believe.
He will come back, but not as a Lamb.
Ya know, on that note, the deceiver had the world thinking, back in Messiah's day, that He would come as a Lion, of the Tribe of Judah, that He would conquer and rule with a rod of iron. But He came as the suffering servant, the Passover Lamb, and fooled many. Now the deceiver has most of the world thinking He will return as a Lamb, all meek and lowly, there is no hell really, or judgement, for all one has to do is believe. Right? Wrong! Even demons believe.
He will come back, but not as a Lamb.
why do you keep saying where not under the law ? no one has said other wise i think or at least i have not herd anyone say we are under the law.
This topic could be very good to people who want to learn about Jews and gentiles, but if all this arguing carries on the thread will probably get closed and brothers and sisters who are wanting to fellowship in this thread or draw nearer to the lord will miss out.
This is exactly what is happening here .
I will now attempt to reach you one last time.
People who are in God the lord will remember there sins no more, THIS IS NOT ME CLAIMING SINNLESS perfection, so please don't think that way about me.
I have searched and searched the scriptures to add edification for this thread and even you .
A child of God is kept safe from the evil one a child of god is loved and a child of God loves his fellow Israelite s in Christ.
A child of God becomes light in burden the farther banishes his sins in to the sea of forgetfulness (again this is not sinless perfection but it is close to it wasH rinse and repeat these word and understand that i am not claiming to be better than you or anyone else,
1 Peter 5:6-11
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. [SUP]11 [/SUP]To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
This topic could be very good to people who want to learn about Jews and gentiles, but if all this arguing carries on the thread will probably get closed and brothers and sisters who are wanting to fellowship in this thread or draw nearer to the lord will miss out.
This is exactly what is happening here .
I will now attempt to reach you one last time.
People who are in God the lord will remember there sins no more, THIS IS NOT ME CLAIMING SINNLESS perfection, so please don't think that way about me.
I have searched and searched the scriptures to add edification for this thread and even you .
A child of God is kept safe from the evil one a child of god is loved and a child of God loves his fellow Israelite s in Christ.
A child of God becomes light in burden the farther banishes his sins in to the sea of forgetfulness (again this is not sinless perfection but it is close to it wasH rinse and repeat these word and understand that i am not claiming to be better than you or anyone else,
1 Peter 5:6-11
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. [SUP]11 [/SUP]To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
It appears that the Jews (Scribes and Pharisees) thought it heresy for Paul to teach the Jews and Gentiles to forsake Moses’ teachings by not being circumcised, and to not live by the religious customs of the Jews. (Acts 21:21)
Then Paul said that in order to show that he was not doing this, have the 4 Jewish men who believed what Paul was teaching, follow through with their Nazarite vow, and shave their heads. (Acts 21:23-24)
As far as the Gentiles who believed, Paul wanted the Pharisees to notice that the Gentiles were to stay away from things offered to idols, drinking blood, eating strangled animals, and sexual promiscuity. (Acts 21:25)
Then as a Jew, Paul associated himself with the 4 Nazarite men who had a vow, and followed through with the ordinances of the Mosaic law. The offering mentioned was not a sacrifice for sin, but rather an offering according to temple worship. (Acts 21:26, Leviticus 7:16, Numbers 6:2-8)
After being arrested, Paul speaks in “tongues” Greek to the Roman soldier and Hebrew to the Jews, in order to show them he was a Jew. Because Hebrew was being spoken they listened to him. (Acts 21:40)
When Paul said that He was called by Jesus to minister to the Gentiles, that was the last straw for the Pharisaical Jews. (Acts 22:21-23)
This is parallel to the mindset of the same people who arrested, and crucified Jesus Christ. But as we all know the accusation was false. (Acts 32:29)
And finally, Paul outwardly states that he has in no way taught against the law of Moses or the prophets, just as Jesus said that nothing would be taken away from the law and the prophets. (Acts 24:14)
Acts 12:14
But this I confess unto thee, that according with the way they call a sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
So I have a question that I will answer for all who are reading this.
What have we learned from this story recorded in Acts, and what does the adversary fervently desire within the ranks of the church, (both Jew and Gentile) since the time of the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ began?
Answer:
To separate the Jew from the Gentile, and separate the testimony of the grace of Jesus Christ from the law and the prophets, endorsing false doctrines of distortion, and railing false accusations toward those that teach of the true grace of Jesus Christ. Sound familiar?
Jesus said He came to divide, (Luke 12:51) and then seems to contradict Himself by saying a house divided against itself cannot stand. (Matthew 12:25) God’s kingdom, being ALL of the Word of God, is not divided, and He didn’t have any part of it crucified. Sin has been crucified pertaining to us, NOT pertaining in any way to His kingdom.
If all the law changed because of the one change of the Priesthood changing to another tribe, the earth we are now standing on doesn’t exist according to the words of Jesus, and the jots, and tittles that have been thrown into never never-land will come back some day soon, like the fire from heaven that destroyed Sodom, and Gomorrah.
Then Paul said that in order to show that he was not doing this, have the 4 Jewish men who believed what Paul was teaching, follow through with their Nazarite vow, and shave their heads. (Acts 21:23-24)
As far as the Gentiles who believed, Paul wanted the Pharisees to notice that the Gentiles were to stay away from things offered to idols, drinking blood, eating strangled animals, and sexual promiscuity. (Acts 21:25)
Then as a Jew, Paul associated himself with the 4 Nazarite men who had a vow, and followed through with the ordinances of the Mosaic law. The offering mentioned was not a sacrifice for sin, but rather an offering according to temple worship. (Acts 21:26, Leviticus 7:16, Numbers 6:2-8)
After being arrested, Paul speaks in “tongues” Greek to the Roman soldier and Hebrew to the Jews, in order to show them he was a Jew. Because Hebrew was being spoken they listened to him. (Acts 21:40)
When Paul said that He was called by Jesus to minister to the Gentiles, that was the last straw for the Pharisaical Jews. (Acts 22:21-23)
This is parallel to the mindset of the same people who arrested, and crucified Jesus Christ. But as we all know the accusation was false. (Acts 32:29)
And finally, Paul outwardly states that he has in no way taught against the law of Moses or the prophets, just as Jesus said that nothing would be taken away from the law and the prophets. (Acts 24:14)
Acts 12:14
But this I confess unto thee, that according with the way they call a sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
So I have a question that I will answer for all who are reading this.
What have we learned from this story recorded in Acts, and what does the adversary fervently desire within the ranks of the church, (both Jew and Gentile) since the time of the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ began?
Answer:
To separate the Jew from the Gentile, and separate the testimony of the grace of Jesus Christ from the law and the prophets, endorsing false doctrines of distortion, and railing false accusations toward those that teach of the true grace of Jesus Christ. Sound familiar?
Jesus said He came to divide, (Luke 12:51) and then seems to contradict Himself by saying a house divided against itself cannot stand. (Matthew 12:25) God’s kingdom, being ALL of the Word of God, is not divided, and He didn’t have any part of it crucified. Sin has been crucified pertaining to us, NOT pertaining in any way to His kingdom.
If all the law changed because of the one change of the Priesthood changing to another tribe, the earth we are now standing on doesn’t exist according to the words of Jesus, and the jots, and tittles that have been thrown into never never-land will come back some day soon, like the fire from heaven that destroyed Sodom, and Gomorrah.
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Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all they soul, and with all they mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
The law has been condensed into two commandments by Jesus himself. For the law is fulfilled in one word, in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. . . But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (Gal. 5:14,18) If you love the LORD your God with all you heart, soul, mind, and strength - you will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain -
And if you love your neighbor as yourself - you will not commit adultery.
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Now, I have said all along that the OT 10 commandments are carried on throughout the NT - The thing is the law includes not only the 10 Commandments but also the many Levitical laws - and to obey the law we must obey all of it - Has Christ died in vain? . . .
I am crucified with Crhist: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Gal. 2:20,21)
Why would anyone want to put themselves under the yoke of bondage? Why is it everyone wants to quote the Ten Commandments like that is all there is in the law?
The law has been condensed into two commandments by Jesus himself. For the law is fulfilled in one word, in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. . . But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (Gal. 5:14,18) If you love the LORD your God with all you heart, soul, mind, and strength - you will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain -
And if you love your neighbor as yourself - you will not commit adultery.
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Now, I have said all along that the OT 10 commandments are carried on throughout the NT - The thing is the law includes not only the 10 Commandments but also the many Levitical laws - and to obey the law we must obey all of it - Has Christ died in vain? . . .
I am crucified with Crhist: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Gal. 2:20,21)
Why would anyone want to put themselves under the yoke of bondage? Why is it everyone wants to quote the Ten Commandments like that is all there is in the law?
K
duty calls, must work so i can eat, just wanted to leave a thought...
While no man/woman has everything nailed down, buttoned up right, we are all on a path, and there are only 2.
In Jeremiah
36 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day. [SUP]3 [/SUP]It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.
God was warning the people to repent and turn to Him, which is a common idea in the Whole Bible.
Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the Lord, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, neither the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But the king commanded Jerahmeel the son of Hammelech, and Seraiah the son of Azriel, and Shelemiah the son of Abdeel, to take Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet: but the Lord hid them.
The king did not want to hear the words of the LORD, so he burned 'em. But Baruch wrote again those words plus many more! See how patient our Creator is? How merciful?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.
God's Word will stand forever. The Word also says when Messiah comes, Torah will be sent to the nations, we will keep the Feasts, everything will be restored. Why in the would would anyone let the adversary win by believing God's Laws are done away with? What? Did He institute them, then say nevermind because Christians are privileged? Only to restore them again when Messiah reigns on earth? Is God the same yesterday and today and forevermore?
God is not a man, that He would lie. Messiah became a Lamb as payment for our sin, so we should turn our foot from sin, and go and sin no more.
While no man/woman has everything nailed down, buttoned up right, we are all on a path, and there are only 2.
In Jeremiah
36 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day. [SUP]3 [/SUP]It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.
God was warning the people to repent and turn to Him, which is a common idea in the Whole Bible.
Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the Lord, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, neither the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But the king commanded Jerahmeel the son of Hammelech, and Seraiah the son of Azriel, and Shelemiah the son of Abdeel, to take Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet: but the Lord hid them.
The king did not want to hear the words of the LORD, so he burned 'em. But Baruch wrote again those words plus many more! See how patient our Creator is? How merciful?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.
God's Word will stand forever. The Word also says when Messiah comes, Torah will be sent to the nations, we will keep the Feasts, everything will be restored. Why in the would would anyone let the adversary win by believing God's Laws are done away with? What? Did He institute them, then say nevermind because Christians are privileged? Only to restore them again when Messiah reigns on earth? Is God the same yesterday and today and forevermore?
God is not a man, that He would lie. Messiah became a Lamb as payment for our sin, so we should turn our foot from sin, and go and sin no more.
I'm not sure if I was one of the people you had in mind when you wrote this, as I have been loosely labeled a "judaizer" before, but I thought I would address some of these statements from my personal point of view.
I have no beef with Paul, and recognize that he was ordained by God as an apostle, and that every word he spoke agreed with Jesus', and the God of the Old Testament, even the God who wrote the Law.
I see nothing wrong with using OT scriptures. If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, than His principles and truths are the same yesterday, today and forever. Some of the applications may have been modified given Jesus' atoning work, but the principles are the same.
If someone is using the law to affect their salvation, then yes. If using the law as a response to grace, then no.
The Law was given to God's chosen people. Christians are God's chosen people. I don't make a distinction. Some people do, but Paul also said there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
God is talking to His people in both the OT and the NT. The NT contains a greater revelation of the the truths in the OT, but it still doesn't negate the principles themselves.
I have no beef with Paul, and recognize that he was ordained by God as an apostle, and that every word he spoke agreed with Jesus', and the God of the Old Testament, even the God who wrote the Law.
I see nothing wrong with using OT scriptures. If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, than His principles and truths are the same yesterday, today and forever. Some of the applications may have been modified given Jesus' atoning work, but the principles are the same.
If someone is using the law to affect their salvation, then yes. If using the law as a response to grace, then no.
The Law was given to God's chosen people. Christians are God's chosen people. I don't make a distinction. Some people do, but Paul also said there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
God is talking to His people in both the OT and the NT. The NT contains a greater revelation of the the truths in the OT, but it still doesn't negate the principles themselves.
There are many things the law allows that the Holy Spirit does not allow.
Before we learn to write in sentences do we not first have to learn the alphabet? once we learn to write in sentences is the alphabet abolished?
*on that note nor do we keep submersing ourselves in the alphabet, we have moved on, for the "Teacher" is with us. Let us continue with the Lord and let Him teach us in all things. He will write His law in our hearts. An advanced law (pray for your enemy, and forgive those who wronged you.)
Before we learn to write in sentences do we not first have to learn the alphabet? once we learn to write in sentences is the alphabet abolished?
*on that note nor do we keep submersing ourselves in the alphabet, we have moved on, for the "Teacher" is with us. Let us continue with the Lord and let Him teach us in all things. He will write His law in our hearts. An advanced law (pray for your enemy, and forgive those who wronged you.)
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To expand, I think its necessary for everyone, on both sides of the fence, to clarify why "we need to follow it all". For what purpose do we need to follow it all? What happens if we do? What happens if we don't? All commands of the Law have application physically and/or spiritually. The applications may change, but the principles are still the same.
I will also add.....the whole point of Revelation is.....
The Revealing of Jesus Christ as he is now as God on Throne and the Events that He brings to pass so as to reveal himself to the world as God......I find it interesting that he shuts down the sun, moon and stars before he reveals the brilliance of his power and the eyes as the flames of fire and a face as bright as the sun......
Your right...he does not come back as a lamb, but rather as a Lion...of the Tribe of Judah with full right and authority to sit upon the throne of David ruling the world with a rod of iron from the world capitol Jerusalem!
The Revealing of Jesus Christ as he is now as God on Throne and the Events that He brings to pass so as to reveal himself to the world as God......I find it interesting that he shuts down the sun, moon and stars before he reveals the brilliance of his power and the eyes as the flames of fire and a face as bright as the sun......
Your right...he does not come back as a lamb, but rather as a Lion...of the Tribe of Judah with full right and authority to sit upon the throne of David ruling the world with a rod of iron from the world capitol Jerusalem!
C
Before that, false prophets shall be rampant, like OT times, saying to the people peace, peace when there is no peace for the way of the people is wicked. The people say "Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel." Leaders for the money gladly comply.
The two witnesses shall come, speak the truth, they'll say "Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls", said the same the OT prophets.
To be persecuted because of the Word or to exchange gifts with superficial love?
Decision time.
The two witnesses shall come, speak the truth, they'll say "Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls", said the same the OT prophets.
To be persecuted because of the Word or to exchange gifts with superficial love?
Decision time.