AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe we are...

Jewtiles or Gentews.........YEAH I KNOW! Seeing how there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ as he has made the twain unto ONE in Jesus.....humanity back under one banner under God!<----of the seed and stock of Abraham....CHILDREN OF FAITH!

I hear you were a rare bread, A Gentjewile..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Roger that, Cfultz3

But intellectual belief is not enough, is it. Fruit must be attached to that belief. Otherwise that belief is no belief at all.

even demons believe and tremble.

Belief us useless, There will be many a person who merely believed in God who will not make it to heaven (most likely far more will miss out, then will be saved)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not all Jews practice Judaism but "all" Israelis do

An Israelite is of the 12 tribes,

A jew is of two tribes, Named for the southern kingdom of Judah.

A jew is an israelite. But not all Israelites are Jews.

 

[secularhermit]

Getting hatred out of your heart is not a matter of, ok, alrighty then...most helpful is to pray for whoever is the object of that hate. It's not easy to hate someone you pray for.

And, if "I hate myself" it would be a good spiritual exercise to pray for ME (1st) to start loving me THE WAY I AM... As soon I be healed, I could pray for more people, including THOSE I DISLIKE and, according to Karaster "exercise", I would love (even my enemies) ((though it sound weird and "risky" but Jesus showed it that WAY)).

 

[cfultz3]

Would not the law be the whole law. And not just part of it?

The laws pertaining to the sacrifice, never condemned us, The laws pertaining to high priest, never condemned us, The law pertaining to the holy of holies never condemned us, Jesus fulfilled those laws. Thus they become absolite.

The laws of the commands, or as Paul called them, the words written and engraven in stone, condemn us, Because we have failed to live up to that standard.

What Christ abolished was the penalty.

How else can I explain that we cannot walk immorally with the Spirit? If God saw fit that His Law is to be written upon man's heart, and knowing what laws Christ fulfilled, then that which remains and is called God's law can only be what is considered percepts, that is, morality, what God has deemed right and wrong.

If God's law is fulfilled by love and love can be defined as acts of doing morally right things for God and others (I saw that man was hungry so I feed him.), then Paul cannot be speaking about moral laws, concepts, percepts (those things which love fulfills).

Yes, we do fail to love perfectly. But yet, Paul said we are to be perfect as our Father in Heaven, who, as he describes, shows no partiality in His acts of kindness. So, because we can fail in doing that, that does not mean we are to give that up but stand up and continue to be like God, that is, Godly.

Yes, Christ abolished the penalty of the Law, and we Christians do establish the Law when we perform acts of love, seeing that those acts do satisfy God's Law. And if it is God's Law which is satisfied by love, then love is the goal of God's Law.

What I am trying to show is that we Christians cannot be immoral and since we cannot, then there must remain something which reminds us what is moral before God and that leaves those things which love fulfills. Those things which God has deemed to be good or evil and by concurring with the Spirit under His conviction, we agree that God has moral standards even for Christians.

 

[Karraster]

How were you saved?

I was saved by Christ. He saved me even though I couldn't perform the law. That is good news. He is the friend of sinners.

I point legalists, and everyone else, back to Christ. I don't tell anyone that the 10 commandments are done away with because they are not. I only tell legalists and judaizers that Grace Saved Christians are no longer under the 10 Commandments because we have something Much Better Now.

2 Corinthians 3:5-11
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The 10 commandments written on stone are the ministration of Condemnation and Death. Because they are bad or wrong? No. Because we don't have any power to keep them. They are a description of the work of the Holy Spirit.

So if you are really so concerned about anyone "keeping" the law then you should point them to Christ. Because His Power is the only power that keeps them or can keep them.

To point Saved Christians back to the law is to tell them to turn away from Grace and the Power of Christ and begin to be entangled again in the yoke of bondage. Attempting to fulfill by their works that which has already been fulfilled, thereby nullifying faith.

This is a really simple concept. Which is better and which do you prefer; The Power of Christ or your own strength?

Thank you for the reply. I wholeheartedly agree that Messiah paid the penalty of sin, that we might live.

My question was however, how do you teach a child? A 2 year old, for example, would you say all that you just said, and point them to Christ, or would you say "Don't hit your sister." We are supposed to teach our children in simple terms, and that teaching should be Biblicaly based.

It's not against God to obey His commandments, but to obey, then say we don't have to, Jesus did it all is just wrong. Jesus said to follow Him, and all He commanded. And it was Messiah that created everything that was created. It was Messiah on that mountain with Moses and spoke to the people. If I am legalistic, so is Messiah, because He said go and sin no more.

Sure we are not perfect, but He said be perfect, and if we are to be transforming and being perfected, doesn't that take effort on our part? I call on Jesus all day long, the law does not save me, but I am mindful of it and make an all out effort, because I do not want to sin against God.

 

[cfultz3]

better yet, The question should be CAN we be perfect before God?

Through faith

 

[cfultz3]

so if you love, you will never sin? How can you have perfect love which never sins, and is it possible?

Yesterday when you and I was talking, I said that as long as we are in these bodies, we are bound to sin (fall short of being perfect as our Father in Heaven (undivided love)). And then concluded that none can love perfectly as He.

Is it possible? No, it is not. But when one is loving (Present Participle (active now)) they are not sinning (Present Participle (active now)). So, when we are sinning, we are not loving. And as far as I know, I am still in my flesh

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Through faith

SO you can get to the point you never sin again?

 

[danschance]

I dont know how why you have these beliefs?. It is not just.

it is not the Jews who crucify Jesus over and over again its everyone every time you sin you put a stripe on Jesuses back and every time you do something for his children you go in the book of remembrance. where do you want to be ?
where would like his children to be ? do you have loved ones ? do you tell them what you tell his children here ?
i am praying right now i urge all brother and sister to pray to.

1) I did say we all killed Christ when we sin, as His blood covers our sins.
2) Pontius Pilate also allowed the execution of an innocent men, so he also shares in murdering Christ.
3) Not all but certainly some Jews are clearly to blame for murdering Christ, as they were the ones who yelled "Crucify Him". The Jewish leaders clearly plotted to murder Christ.

Beyond that I have no idea why you are so concerned about this as I can prove it from scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yesterday when you and I was talking, I said that as long as we are in these bodies, we are bound to sin (fall short of being perfect as our Father in Heaven (undivided love)). And then concluded that none can love perfectly as He.

Is it possible? No, it is not. But when one is loving (Present Participle (active now)) they are not sinning (Present Participle (active now)). So, when we are sinning, we are not loving. And as far as I know, I am still in my flesh

Yes,

And you just proved why Jesus had to abolish the law. Because if he did not. You and I would still be condemned, because we still sin.

 

[cfultz3]

SO you can get to the point you never sin again?

Nope

But, your question was: CAN we be perfect BEFORE God? And I answered that we ARE perfect (righteous (right standing before God)) before God through faith in His Son.

I just misunderstood the intent of the question....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope

But, your question was: CAN we be perfect BEFORE God? And I answered that we ARE perfect (righteous (right standing before God)) before God through faith in His Son.

I just misunderstood the intent of the question....

I am trying to make a point, (which I just made in my last post) Hope you undertand now what I was trying to get at

 

[RedTent]

The plan of salvation, the main theme of the entire bible seems so simple, all this tearing it all apart with what is the law's place in this, what is a Jew and gentile in God's eyes, all the little twists and turns are just taking our eyes from the big picture. The twists and turns of this must fit into the overall scheme or we don't have the jig saw of scripture making the correct picture.

We are all God's children, Jew and gentile. At creation, God made a plan for salvation for all God's children, and that plan was Christ.

There are thousands of years of twists and turns. The flood, when God started over. Abraham when God separated a gentile man for a special commission, with the benefit of all creation in mind. Christ as only a symbol for thousands of years, known only to the people now called Jews. The next step, when Christ fulfilled what the symbol of Him told of.

Now, it gets hard to figure our place. God says he is protecting the special people God used for us, he lets them deny that He finished the work he was supposed to do, and for about 2,000 years the gentiles have been out to "get" the Jews. Murders, ghettos, special laws against them, talk of "those Jews". Only special Christians knew to just let them be to God.

The law got pulled into the mess. It was given as a holy guide for us, to learn from. It takes a secondary place after we are given the Holy Spirit, and people are mixing up following it with their thoughts about Jews. It is all tangled up. Instead of something holy to help guide us, very simple and beautiful, it becomes something against salvation, something against Jews, all sorts of strange things. Demons against our sanctified church are using it so the ten commandments are to be cancelled, even, and most of our churches are sanctified no longer as a place set apart for only those who follow Christ. We must fit law, Jews, all of scripture into the main picture so we see clearly.

 

[danschance]

I agree and will note that I did name humanity...

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I immediately thought of this scripture you posted concerning who killed Jesus.....and it also seems that....

1. The Jews delivered him to be killed at the result of a sham trial that broke their own laws...
2. The Romans also killed him as Pilate gave the death sentence and Roman Soldiers nailed him to the cross after a good ole beat down........
3. The Heavenly Father desired his death as well so as to fulfill His will...
4. Jesus wanting to please the Father laid down his life willingly...
5. Technically Adam is guilty as well, had he not sinned...
6. EVE...Well that's another story...Had she had her head on straight when the serpent.....
7--->number of completion....Humanity over all is guilty as well as Christ did pay humanities sin debt.

And on and on and on.......

However, Adam, Eve and all of us sinners, did not directly murder Jesus. So if you consider who directly murdered Jesus, your list becomes much smaller.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The plan of salvation, the main theme of the entire bible seems so simple, all this tearing it all apart with what is the law's place in this, what is a Jew and gentile in God's eyes, all the little twists and turns are just taking our eyes from the big picture. The twists and turns of this must fit into the overall scheme or we don't have the jig saw of scripture making the correct picture.

We are all God's children, Jew and gentile. At creation, God made a plan for salvation for all God's children, and that plan was Christ.

There are thousands of years of twists and turns. The flood, when God started over. Abraham when God separated a gentile man for a special commission, with the benefit of all creation in mind. Christ as only a symbol for thousands of years, known only to the people now called Jews. The next step, when Christ fulfilled what the symbol of Him told of.

Now, it gets hard to figure our place. God says he is protecting the special people God used for us, he lets them deny that He finished the work he was supposed to do, and for about 2,000 years the gentiles have been out to "get" the Jews. Murders, ghettos, special laws against them, talk of "those Jews". Only special Christians knew to just let them be to God.

The law got pulled into the mess. It was given as a holy guide for us, to learn from. It takes a secondary place after we are given the Holy Spirit, and people are mixing up following it with their thoughts about Jews. It is all tangled up. Instead of something holy to help guide us, very simple and beautiful, it becomes something against salvation, something against Jews, all sorts of strange things. Demons against our sanctified church are using it so the ten commandments are to be cancelled, even, and most of our churches are sanctified no longer as a place set apart for only those who follow Christ. We must fit law, Jews, all of scripture into the main picture so we see clearly.

if you keep trying to fit the ten commandments into the church, You have to fit condemnation into the church, which means there is no church, because everyone is still condemned. Because we still sin

 

[danschance]

The morals of God? You are confused on what is written on our heart. You are confused on what Law the Spirit speaks to Christians. You are definitely confused when you attempt to mix law with Grace.

But most people do this. Because they understand the law. Its easy to understand. Because everyone is under it until they come to Christ.

What very few people understand is not being under the law. That's because it is only understood through the wisdom and revelation of the knowledge of Christ.

Just about everyone points to the law and says "see, if we do this we are pleasing to God". The Lord Jesus corrects that wrong philosophy and says Being Perfect is what is Pleasing to God. If you could be pleasing to God by the Law then there would be no reason for the Lord Jesus to be a sacrifice Himself for us.

Try to kill the law, lol... that must be what the Pharisees thought of the Lord Jesus too, and definitely what they thought of Paul and the Apostles.

Isn't it strange how some Christians mix the Law and Grace? You can have a little grace but not too much... IF that were the way of righteousness then why even write a New Testament???

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians(CHRISTIANS), who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Mixing law with grace is not only strange and foolish, it maybe spiritual "suicide" according to Gal 5:4. They may be cut off from God and go into the "I never knew you" file. Very sad indeed.

 

[cfultz3]

Yes,

And you just proved why Jesus had to abolish the law. Because if he did not. You and I would still be condemned, because we still sin.

But, you would not say that He abolished morality, with the understanding that we Christians cannot be lascivious. If God has written His Law on our heart, then there must be some law which Christ did not abolish. And if it says that love fulfills that Law, then that law must be God's morals, seeing that Christ did not come to liberate us to be immoral.

My friend, you know me and I do not teach righteousness through Law. I do say that God is a God of morals and that His path is a path of righteousness and that we are guided on His RIGHTEOUS path by His RIGHTEOUS Spirit through His Son who is said be to a LOVER of righteousness and a hater of evilness.

 

[Kefa54]

If you are honestly focused on the law.

Galatians 13:10 For all who rely on the works of the lawp are under a curse as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,s because “the righteous will live by faith. 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them. 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the lawv by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But, you would not say that He abolished morality,

Can you be morally perfect?

We still come back to the same old question my friend.

with the understanding that we Christians cannot be lascivious.

Can a Christian be lascivious? According to John he can not.

If God has written His Law on our heart, then there must be some law which Christ did not abolish. And if it says that love fulfills that Law, then that law must be God's morals, seeing that Christ did not come to liberate us to be immoral.

No. he liberated us because we can not be moral.

And his law is to guide us in the ways of Christ. Not to guide us as to what sin is, All men know what sin is, Paul makes this very clear in romans 1

My friend, you know me and I do not teach righteousness through Law. I do say that God is a God of morals and that His path is a path of righteousness and that we are guided on His RIGHTEOUS path by His RIGHTEOUS Spirit through His Son who is said be to a LOVER of righteousness and a hater of evilness.

I know you do not. I am just trying to get you to think my friend.