AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

Zinzerio · Apr 9, 2014

Psalm 103:8-17

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]the Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbour his anger for ever;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But from everlasting to everlasting
the Lord’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children –

Deuteronomy 4:31

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]For the Lord your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

Daniel 9:9

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him;

Zinzerio · Apr 9, 2014

[h=3]John 17:3[/h]New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

john832 · Apr 9, 2014

To answer the thread title...

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

One who keeps the Commandments is a saint.

Zinzerio · Apr 9, 2014

Condemnation kills and so does condemnation of the the lord and condemnation of his word his word is truth and he loves his children.

When Jesus says if you want to love me HE says keep my commandments (mercy faithfulness and Justice)

Jesus says he will send you help the holy spirit and he will be with you forever.

He who are in God are all sons of day and he who in God is also a saint.

Karraster · Apr 9, 2014

Grandpa said:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek

for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: [SUP]20 [/SUP]but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: [SUP]21 [/SUP]for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

At what age does one become a "judaizer" when following Messiah? The question remains unanswered, "How do you teach your children?" I suppose that is an inconvenient question to one who claims "Christianity" yet does not follow it in practical life, or possibly does yet somehow is unable to admit it.

However I do find it interesting you choose a portion of Matthew 6 to give confirmation of your position, where Messiah was not merely suggesting "idealism", rather He was speaking a lifestyle of those who trust in Him.

john832 · Apr 9, 2014

Karraster said:

A portion of a much larger teaching...

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

But, of course, certain verses are skipped over. They just don't say what people want them to say.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 9, 2014

john832 said:

thats great.

now how is one justified before God. How is the penalty of sin (the ministry of death) removed?

because anyone can act as a saint by obeying commands, legalists have been doing it for thousands of years. it does not make them justified.

john832 · Apr 9, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

You are changing the subject, the question was "Am I a Jew or a Gentile if I keep the Commandments?"

eternally-gratefull · Apr 9, 2014

john832 said:

No. I am keeping to topic of what we have been saying these past few days.

Both jews and gentiles keep commandments, It does not mean any of them are saved now does it?

I find it funny you did not even answer the OP.. You just made a broad statement, And your comming at me?

So, why are you afraid to answer??

Karraster · Apr 9, 2014

john832 said:

True. Sometimes blindness comes in the form of "preconceived notions". When we think we already know what it says there is not soft dirt to plant a good seed. Often a portion of scripture is searched out to prove a point, and not to gain knowledge of God.

That is a stronghold and not "seeking" at all, rather it is pride, finding where scripture agrees with me!! wahoo, God agrees with me!!! I'm smarter than God!!! Look at me and do as I say!!!Forget that scripture over there, that was our "schoolmaster" and we have graduated!!! Yea!!

eternally-gratefull · Apr 9, 2014

Karraster said:

Spoken like someone who is a master of doing this.

Look at what you just said,

"that was the schoolmaster, and we have graduated, Yeah.

Talk about preconcieved notions.

The schoolmaster shows you where the classroom is, Once you know where it is, You no longer need the schoolmaster. His job is done.

As paul said, Once it has done its job, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. But you somehow want to go back to the schoolmaster.. What do you need him to keep holding your hand because you get lost?

jag1977 · Apr 9, 2014

john832 said:

A portion of a much larger teaching...

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

But, of course, certain verses are skipped over. They just don't say what people want them to say.

I think it is obvious what Jesus was teaching them, Jesus was teaching them "SAYING" Revelations 6

JaumeJ · Apr 9, 2014

We may not be Jew or Christian:

Here is a line of thinking, logical and fundamental. Jesus was not Greek. The name, Jesus, is a twice transliterated word from Hebrew, and it means Salvation,. This is in line with what the angel told Mary, that she should call His name, Salvation, for He shall save His people.

It is true, Salvation was of the lineage of Judah, thus in this sense a Jew, however He is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. Abraham was promised his descendants would possess the Gate of their enemies! That Gate can only be Yeshua, Salvation.

Let us proceed a bit further. With the above in mind, this does not make a disciple a Jew, not necessarily. It does not make a disciple of Yeshua, Salvation, an Israeli either. No, anyone who fundamentally believes the Word, as I believe I do, would be of the faith of Abraham. Yeshua, that is, Salvation referred to the sons of Abraham, also to the faith of Abraham.

Now, were you truly fundamental, you would research two words, Judah and Israel. Now to the astonishment of all, whoever truly believes Yeshua, Salvation, is also, but by translation, of Judah and of Israel, and why not? We await the capital of the spiritual Israel to be bought down from Yahweh, that being New Jerusalem.

I am by no means saying Christians are not disciples of the Messiah. What I am saying is, logic can be whimsical, yet revealing. Be certain there are shells in that shotgun before defending a theology of mankind with it.

(from another thread, but apporptiate here.)

Timeline · Apr 9, 2014

john832 said:

Here is where the discussion lies: Laws, Covenants, Commandments

The laws given to the Israelites were, I believe, done away with when Jesus rose.

Covenants were given to mankind, Israel, and to individual(s). We all know that the rainbow is still in the sky. Circumcision was done away with in the new testament. The Sabbath was given as a sign to the Israelites (Ex 31:13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.) The covenant with David was a Covenant of Salt (2 Chron. 13:5Do you not know that the Lord God of Israel gave the rule over Israel forever to David and his sons by a covenant of salt?) but I would say the sign would be that David would have a king on the throne (2 Samuel 7:12-17 When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, [SUP]15 [/SUP]but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’” [SUP]17 [/SUP]In accordance with all these words and all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David.
This covenant is interesting because it sounds like it is talking about Jesus, but it says that he will commit iniquity. I think we can all agree that Jesus was without sin.
I believe that the new covenant is through Jesus and is the most important to us as Christians. I guess it would also be nice is God doesn't flood the whole earth again and I believe that He will not.

That leaves the commandments (although I know that I did not get all of the covenants). When we are told to keep the commandments, does it mean the ten or the two. Now I do know that most of the ten commandments were reinforced in the new. But I don't feel like the Sabbath was one of them. I am coming from the stand point that Jesus was under the old law while living and that we were released from the old law upon Jesus' resurrection. Having said that, examples like the one where Jesus tells the lepers to go and see the priests as the law says, is said in compliance with the old law and would no longer apply to us (you can think of others).

I am left with this current understanding. That I will live by the nine commandments and that I do not need to observe the Sabbath. I would tend to agree with the two commandments which leads us to the nine.

Please give reasonable, scriptural responses. I post this in hopes of being enlightened, not to get pummeled.

Karraster · Apr 9, 2014

Hang on Timeline, still looking for the verse that says "...and I will write them on their hearts, all except the 4th one, (you know, the Only one I said to remember...."

Zinzerio · Apr 9, 2014

JaumeJ said:

We may not be Jew or Christian:

Here is a line of thinking, logical and fundamental. Jesus was not Greek. The name, Jesus, is a twice transliterated word from Hebrew, and it means Salvation,. This is in line with what the angel told Mary, that she should call His name, Salvation, for He shall save His people.

It is true, Salvation was of the lineage of Judah, thus in this sense a Jew, however He is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. Abraham was promised his descendants would possess the Gate of their enemies! That Gate can only be Yeshua, Salvation.

Let us proceed a bit further. With the above in mind, this does not make a disciple a Jew, not necessarily. It does not make a disciple of Yeshua, Salvation, an Israeli either. No, anyone who fundamentally believes the Word, as I believe I do, would be of the faith of Abraham. Yeshua, that is, Salvation referred to the sons of Abraham, also to the faith of Abraham.

Now, were you truly fundamental, you would research two words, Judah and Israel. Now to the astonishment of all, whoever truly believes Yeshua, Salvation, is also, but by translation, of Judah and of Israel, and why not? We await the capital of the spiritual Israel to be bought down from Yahweh, that being New Jerusalem.

I am by no means saying Christians are not disciples of the Messiah. What I am saying is, logic can be whimsical, yet revealing. Be certain there are shells in that shotgun before defending a theology of mankind with it.

(from another thread, but apporptiate here.)

You are the doctor of the house lol great speach.

JaumeJ · Apr 9, 2014

I had you and others like you (if any) in mind..........

Zinzerio said:

Timeline · Apr 9, 2014

Karraster said:

That's very cute, but unhelpful.

Timeline · Apr 9, 2014

Timeline said:

Which would lead one to think that you don't know. I know that you have studied the word, as have I, but we have drawn different conclusions. I don't know if this is from God or not. But being mean to one another and talking down is not going to get anyone anywhere.

dcontroversal · Apr 9, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Well I can tell you two things for sure when it comes to me being a rare breed.....

1. The Lord broke the mold after I came forth....
2. They say everybody has a twin in the world....I sure hope not

hahahhah

My mom does accuse me of my eyes being brown for a reason

HAHAHHAHAHHA!

I just tell her she is a quart low!

AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

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