Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.
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Those were not sign as wonders "a source of faith or wonderment' . No sign was given in that way save the sign of Jonas .Christ fulfilled that work. They were signs of the times . He will come on the last day . Judgment day for the unbeliever (lake of fire) and the day the believer will receive their new bodies. The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind.
The reformation had come .The pagan time period of Kings in Israel used as a parable had come to a end .
When Christ said it was finished... it was. Not waiting 70 years for the last stone to fall. Stones can be used to represent people or nations.
Walls that remained that were previously used lost there place to represent the true Holy Place not seen. It was calculated after the demonstration .All of the walls could still be remaining. They simply do not come into the picture. The lasts days that we are in began when he declared "it is finished" almost two thousand literal years ago..
The reformation had come .The pagan time period of Kings in Israel used as a parable had come to a end .
When Christ said it was finished... it was. Not waiting 70 years for the last stone to fall. Stones can be used to represent people or nations.
Walls that remained that were previously used lost there place to represent the true Holy Place not seen. It was calculated after the demonstration .All of the walls could still be remaining. They simply do not come into the picture. The lasts days that we are in began when he declared "it is finished" almost two thousand literal years ago..
So in Acts 3:21 this was fulfilled literally and in Acts 15 they didn't really need to discuss if the gentiles needed to be circumcised literally or literally follow the law because they weren't under it anymore and James and Paul were confused in Acts 21 and shouldn't have seen any significance in those stones while they were still standing?
The shadow of the circumcision, a ceremonial law was fulfilled when Christ said; it is finished... the perfect Christ had come. The time of reformation had come . Things seen that were used to signify the work of God not seen had come to end. Jewish flesh lost its privileged temporal use in ceremonial laws .The ceremonial stones as a whole fell when the veil to represent the flesh of Jesus was rent. The temporal use of a temple to be used to represent the Holy place un-seen, the faith principle. . It never stopped being a shadow from the first day when day Zipporah circumcised her first born to represent Christ our bloody husband. When Jesus said it is finished I believe it was. The government of God was restored to another time period .It would seem that of Judges
Catholicism for one when it uses the phrase "it is finished" They use it in a way that says "it is not". Taking away the meaning of the word. When approached with the gospel in respect to the finished work of Christ. They must disagree or their foundation falls . Their suffering here and later in purgatory adds to His making the grace of God without effect .Saying Christ's work offers as unknown amount or remnant grace .Teaching a goddess named Mary alone has the fullness of Grace as a dispenser of grace and mercy from her own self. That clearly does despite to the grace of God. Blasphemy.
That is one reason I would say the timing was not relying on what the eyes see as to the timing more the veil being rent.....the end, it is finished
There are still stones in Jerusalem, some as lively stones that do make up the spiritual house of God, the bride of Christ, the church.
2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
At this time it would seem they did not rightly understand Jesus or not he certainly indicated what would happen:
(Mark 9:31 for he was teaching his disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man will be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise." )
(Mark 9:32 But they did not understand this statement and were afraid to ask him.)
Apparently verse 32 is "wanting" in a couple of manuscripts.
(Mark 10:33 "Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and experts in the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles. )
(Mark 10:34 They will mock him, spit on him, flog him severely, and kill him. Yet after three days, he will rise again." )
(Mark 9:31 for he was teaching his disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man will be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise." )
(Mark 9:32 But they did not understand this statement and were afraid to ask him.)
Apparently verse 32 is "wanting" in a couple of manuscripts.
(Mark 10:33 "Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and experts in the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles. )
(Mark 10:34 They will mock him, spit on him, flog him severely, and kill him. Yet after three days, he will rise again." )
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The shadow of the circumcision, a ceremonial law was fulfilled when Christ said; it is finished... the perfect Christ had come. The time of reformation had come . Things seen that were used to signify the work of God not seen had come to end. Jewish flesh lost its privileged temporal use in ceremonial laws .The ceremonial stones as a whole fell when the veil to represent the flesh of Jesus was rent. The temporal use of a temple to be used to represent the Holy place un-seen, the faith principle. . It never stopped being a shadow from the first day when day Zipporah circumcised her first born to represent Christ our bloody husband. When Jesus said it is finished I believe it was. The government of God was restored to another time period .It would seem that of Judges
Catholicism for one when it uses the phrase "it is finished" They use it in a way that says "it is not". Taking away the meaning of the word. When approached with the gospel in respect to the finished work of Christ. They must disagree or their foundation falls . Their suffering here and later in purgatory adds to His making the grace of God without effect .Saying Christ's work offers as unknown amount or remnant grace .Teaching a goddess named Mary alone has the fullness of Grace as a dispenser of grace and mercy from her own self. That clearly does despite to the grace of God. Blasphemy.
That is one reason I would say the timing was not relying on what the eyes see as to the timing more the veil being rent.....the end, it is finished
There are still stones in Jerusalem, some as lively stones that do make up the spiritual house of God, the bride of Christ, the church.
2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
Catholicism for one when it uses the phrase "it is finished" They use it in a way that says "it is not". Taking away the meaning of the word. When approached with the gospel in respect to the finished work of Christ. They must disagree or their foundation falls . Their suffering here and later in purgatory adds to His making the grace of God without effect .Saying Christ's work offers as unknown amount or remnant grace .Teaching a goddess named Mary alone has the fullness of Grace as a dispenser of grace and mercy from her own self. That clearly does despite to the grace of God. Blasphemy.
That is one reason I would say the timing was not relying on what the eyes see as to the timing more the veil being rent.....the end, it is finished
There are still stones in Jerusalem, some as lively stones that do make up the spiritual house of God, the bride of Christ, the church.
2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
lol, Maybe you clicked reply to on the wrong post or a glitch or something happened but this doesn't address anything I ask in post #963...
Peter quoted Acts 2 in his first sermon at Pentecost
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
He believed that had the Jewish nation accepted the GOK there and then, the tribulation would have begun.
Later on in Acts 3, he offered the physical return of Jesus if the Jews accepted the Gospel of the Kingdom
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
This is the unique aspect of Peter's message, which is not shared when others like Paul preach the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews. Only in Peter's preaching do you get this offer.
But as the free will of Jews goes, by the time of Stephen, they stoned him and Jesus had to sit back down on the right hand side of the Father, and the physical return of Jesus would be postponed until the full measure of the Gentiles get in, thru the gospel of grace.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
He believed that had the Jewish nation accepted the GOK there and then, the tribulation would have begun.
Later on in Acts 3, he offered the physical return of Jesus if the Jews accepted the Gospel of the Kingdom
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
This is the unique aspect of Peter's message, which is not shared when others like Paul preach the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews. Only in Peter's preaching do you get this offer.
But as the free will of Jews goes, by the time of Stephen, they stoned him and Jesus had to sit back down on the right hand side of the Father, and the physical return of Jesus would be postponed until the full measure of the Gentiles get in, thru the gospel of grace.
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There we have it then 1 Corinthians 13:8,,,In Matthew 11:13 the law and the prophets prophesied until John.
So then in Acts 2-3 this was offered but this was postponed and so the prophecies of those sons and daughters ceased as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 13:8 or do you believe that Revelation,Peters letters,Jude,Pauls ect. are the prophecies Acts 2 are speaking of?
You wrote...
Sorry, the point was shadows of the holy place (the eternal) . We could never assume the holy place (Gods 'glory) is of this world, as if the kingdom did come by observation rather than walking by faith (the unseen eternal)
Putting ones new eternal living hope in the temporal things seen like stones as a source of faith is where I would disagree and the reason for the Acts 15. .As always we look to the things seen the temporal to give us the unseen eternal understanding .
God simply will not share his glory with the things seen .Even Jesus resisted performing the abomination of desecration spoken of in Daniel. When called good teacher he gave glory to the father not seen and said only God is good. Not shadows or flesh and blood as if it could profit for something other than to be used in a ceremonial law like circumcision. Again the flesh, the stones still have significance for discussion But like all ceremonial laws they are not something we could judge one another with. we are no closer or further away form the presence of God. But Christ our bloody husband has come as that which the shadow pointed to. . .
It is not the Holy Place not seen (God's glory)that gives us faith but a representative of the hidden glory .
When Christ said it was finished it was . . The shadows are still there doing their work when rightfully dividing. If they were shadows before the reformation and a person could not judge a person in respect to them it did not stop the discussion of those who do sek after the things seen before they will believe. Then just as it does not now.Things can be dicussued
Putting ones new eternal living hope in the temporal things seen like stones as a source of faith is where I would disagree and the reason for the Acts 15. .As always we look to the things seen the temporal to give us the unseen eternal understanding .
God simply will not share his glory with the things seen .Even Jesus resisted performing the abomination of desecration spoken of in Daniel. When called good teacher he gave glory to the father not seen and said only God is good. Not shadows or flesh and blood as if it could profit for something other than to be used in a ceremonial law like circumcision. Again the flesh, the stones still have significance for discussion But like all ceremonial laws they are not something we could judge one another with. we are no closer or further away form the presence of God. But Christ our bloody husband has come as that which the shadow pointed to. . .
It is not the Holy Place not seen (God's glory)that gives us faith but a representative of the hidden glory .
When Christ said it was finished it was . . The shadows are still there doing their work when rightfully dividing. If they were shadows before the reformation and a person could not judge a person in respect to them it did not stop the discussion of those who do sek after the things seen before they will believe. Then just as it does not now.Things can be dicussued
No such thing as "sign gifts". The two words used together in the Bible do not work together. Signs as warning to unbelievers .Prophecy God's living word for those who do believe the author of scriptures
Sign metaphors that speak of spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Sign warnings like tongues, yes.
2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk "by faith", not by "sight"
He gives us a preview, and a eye back to the beginning with the scriptures as well as the end .We are not what we will be.Corrupted flesh and blood will not enter the things of faith.. the eternal not seen
lol, I think different Christians would have different views on this too. Jesus said that the law and prophets were until John(JTB) and so there's that group(Luke 24:44) and so everything written in them.
Then there's the prophecies from Joel 2,Acts 2 where the sons and daughters prophecy(so another group) and so one of the two either the prophecies in the NT by Jesus,Peter,Paul, James John ect. are the fulfillment of Joel 2(ect.) or at some future time other sons and daughters will prophecy.
In Revelation John is told he must prophecy again(Rev.10:11) but maybe it's referring to Revelation it's self in this it is said to be an prophecy(Rev.1:3,Rev.22:19 ect.) and to make it even more complicated in the text of Revelation it states that in the future others will give prophecy(Rev. 11:6),lol But then there's the qualifier given in 1 Corinthians 13:10, that which is perfect/complete is come.
Then there's the prophecies from Joel 2,Acts 2 where the sons and daughters prophecy(so another group) and so one of the two either the prophecies in the NT by Jesus,Peter,Paul, James John ect. are the fulfillment of Joel 2(ect.) or at some future time other sons and daughters will prophecy.
In Revelation John is told he must prophecy again(Rev.10:11) but maybe it's referring to Revelation it's self in this it is said to be an prophecy(Rev.1:3,Rev.22:19 ect.) and to make it even more complicated in the text of Revelation it states that in the future others will give prophecy(Rev. 11:6),lol But then there's the qualifier given in 1 Corinthians 13:10, that which is perfect/complete is come.
Still though garee in Acts 3:19-21 the Holy Spirit is in Peter as Peter is speaking. The apostles and disciples in Acts 15 and Acts 21 have received the Holy Spirit. So the book of Acts is about the actions/acts of the apostles while they are filled with the Holy Spiit and they are doing/actions contrary to what you are saying. So I have the oppinion that you are giving but then again I have the apostles filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts,,I must see their actions as the greater in this right?
Listen Gong show.......it is entirely true and exactly why he said what he said unto them.....there is NO IF game and the 2nd coming was SET before the casting down of the world......Stephen was NOT going to change that regardless of what they did or did not do....that is pure poppycock
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EDIT time ran out....
Listen Gong show.......it is entirely true and exactly why he said what he said unto them.....there is NO IF game and the 2nd coming was SET before the casting down of the world......Stephen was NOT going to change that regardless of what they did or did not do....that is pure poppycock...and no offence by me using pet names.....I do that to everyone I know.....no offence meant
Listen Gong show.......it is entirely true and exactly why he said what he said unto them.....there is NO IF game and the 2nd coming was SET before the casting down of the world......Stephen was NOT going to change that regardless of what they did or did not do....that is pure poppycock...and no offence by me using pet names.....I do that to everyone I know.....no offence meant
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Contrary to what I said? And what actions are greater ? I agree they were discussing those things . There are spirit filled people discussing those same things today .The reformation has come. There are those today who would give no mind to it.
They were shadows used up until the reformation. They were never the literal holy place as if the kingdom could come by observation. .
When the veil was rent the temporal used to provide substance had served it purpose .
They were shadows used up until the reformation. They were never the literal holy place as if the kingdom could come by observation. .
When the veil was rent the temporal used to provide substance had served it purpose .
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