Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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TheDivineWatermark

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I don't understand your explanation, nor does it align with Matthew 25.
Matthew 25 states that all nations will be assembled at the return of Christ and will be judged. Eternal life or eternal punishment are the two options..no other.
Matthew 25 is speaking of a judgment [/separation] of "still-living" persons [of the nations (plural)] at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth; the judgment/separation has to do with who will ENTER the MK age (NO "RESURRECTION" is taking place in this chpt (nor in Matt13 upon which His disciples' Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED, and which kicks off this whole two-chpt answer/response by Him [note: v.25:40,45 "the least of these My brethren" is not speaking of those BEING judged/separated here (the Sheep/goats, by contrast, are "of the nations [PLURAL]" who are the ones being judged/separated in view of how they themselves either AIDED [/blessed] "the least of these My brethren, or did NOT do so)]

And, there is no intervening period.
The "intervening" time-period is NOT "between His 2nd Coming/Return to the earth" [here] and the START of the MK age; but [instead]

…[but] IS the MK age [the time-period between His "2nd Coming/Return to the earth [Rev19:19,21/16:14-16,20:5, i.e. the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22]" and the later "GWTj [Rev20:11-15, i.e. the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22!]

I encourage folks to read the Gospels and Epistles without dispensationalist blinders that insert gaps where they don't exist.
And I encourage the readers to not disregard all of the timing- and chronology- and sequence-clues and wordings which are abundant, but which the "amill-teachings" [and others] thoroughly disregard, as though insignificant and of no matter/consequence

So, when Christ returns, this happens:
Matthew 25:46 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)
There is no room for an intervening period.
Both the Isa passage I supplied and the Rev passages I supplied (which are parallel) tell of a time period which FOLLOWS the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" events. ;) ("amill-teachings" disregard this, in order to hold to its viewpoint)

By the way, if someone else wants to try to explain your exegesis of 1 Corinthians 15, I'm open to it. I cannot understand the way that you phrase things. Your writing style simply doesn't work for me.
K, I'm just saying that 1Cor15:24's " *THEN the end" does not mean what the "amill-teachings" insist that it does, when THEY read it to be saying "then immediately [/right then] the end" [as tho nothing further is left to happen, His reign has already (at this point) accomplished "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death," according to their "chronology" which misses the chronology and timing issues (in abundance) provided in Scripture]; and

...rather than what Revelation 19:15b's wording says in its "FUTURE tense" [at that point] "And He SHALL shepherd them [/the nations] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]" where the wording of 1Tim6:15 parallels also Rev19:16, and 1Tim6:15 [one of only 2x "KING" is used in all of the epistles] is also "FUTURE"... "SHALL SHEW [/openly manifest]" (and which SEQUENCE "agrees" with other passages such as Dan7:27 [following the specific time-slot in v.25] and where that says, "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven"... [too many more...]


* THIS "THEN" is a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY with NO "TIME-ELEMENT" attached, and the LIST is telling the SEQUENCE;
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Matthew 25 is speaking of a judgment [/separation] of "still-living" persons [of the nations (plural)] at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth; the judgment/separation has to do with who will ENTER the MK age (NO "RESURRECTION" is taking place in this chpt (nor in Matt13 upon which His disciples' Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED, and which kicks off this whole two-chpt answer/response by Him [note: v.25:40,45 "the least of these My brethren" is not speaking of those BEING judged/separated here (the Sheep/goats, by contrast, are "of the nations [PLURAL]" who are the ones being judged/separated in view of how they themselves either AIDED [/blessed] "the least of these My brethren, or did NOT do so)]



The "intervening" time-period is NOT "between His 2nd Coming/Return to the earth" [here] and the START of the MK age; but [instead]

…[but] IS the MK age [the time-period between His "2nd Coming/Return to the earth [Rev19:19,21/16:14-16,20:5, i.e. the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22]" and the later "GWTj [Rev20:11-15, i.e. the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22!]



And I encourage the readers to not disregard all of the timing- and chronology- and sequence-clues and wordings which are abundant, but which the "amill-teachings" [and others] thoroughly disregard, as though insignificant and of no matter/consequence



Both the Isa passage I supplied and the Rev passages I supplied (which are parallel) tell of a time period which FOLLOWS the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" events. ;) ("amill-teachings" disregard this, in order to hold to its viewpoint)



K, I'm just saying that 1Cor15:24's " *THEN the end" does not mean what the "amill-teachings" insist that it does, when THEY read it to be saying "then immediately [/right then] the end" [as tho nothing further is left to happen, His reign has already (at this point) accomplished "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death," according to their "chronology" which misses the chronology and timing issues (in abundance) provided in Scripture]; and

...rather than what Revelation 19:15b's wording says in its "FUTURE tense" [at that point] "And He SHALL shepherd them [/the nations] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]" where the wording of 1Tim6:15 parallels also Rev19:16, and 1Tim6:15 [one of only 2x "KING" is used in all of the epistles] is also "FUTURE"... "SHALL SHEW [/openly manifest]" (and which SEQUENCE "agrees" with other passages such as Dan7:27 [following the specific time-slot in v.25] and where that says, "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven"... [too many more...]


* THIS "THEN" is a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY with NO "TIME-ELEMENT" attached, and the LIST is telling the SEQUENCE;

I don't think this is coherent..concerning Matthew 25.

It's obvious that "inheriting the kingdom" connects to the last verse talking about eternal life and eternal punishment.

I don't think you guys have good explanations, and all the wranglings that it takes to maintain dispensationalism simply gives me a headache.

I think some even believe "my brethren" refers exclusively to Jews, and that Gentiles are being rewarded in Matthew 25 strictly due to the way they treated Jews.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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whats the premillennial comeback to this?

By the way, check this out:


John 5:28‭-‬29
Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

"All who are in the tombs"....not just part of them...in one hour...

This sort of thing is why I am amillennial. If you read through the Gospels and epistles this is what you see. It is only the dispy reading of Rev. 20 that supports their view.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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whats the premillennial comeback to this?
Melach,

I had to get this explanation from the Amillennial forum I told you about on Facebook because I don't understand people here very well.

Here it is (by a former dispensationalist):

As I was taught it, this (Matt 25) is the judgment at the beginning of the millenium. Those judged, are judged, based on how they treated Israel during the tribulation. Those who treated Israel (Jesus's brethren) well - and therefore, the Lord - go into the millenium (in natural bodies, not resurrected bodies) those who treated Israel badly go into judgment. This is how dispensationalists place a regenerate and unregenerate population in the kingdom. Those who go in at the beginning are regenerate and their offspring will have in them unregenerate souls to become deceived by Satan at the end of the millenial reign.

I don't see how they can maintain that, though...it's obvious to me that it's talking about a general judgment.

As I have said, I don't believe in a period where the curse is mostly, but not completely, removed. I know why they think that, but I don't think 1 Cor 15 allows for it, despite their attempts to wrangle past it.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I don't think this is coherent..concerning Matthew 25.
It's obvious that "inheriting the kingdom" connects to the last verse talking about eternal life and eternal punishment.
I believe that "[come ye BLESSED of My Father] inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [apo [note: NOT "BEFORE - pro" used of OTHERS elsewhere! ;) ] the foundation of the world" is not the same thing as:

"I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."

[the whole "glory of God in two realms" thing I pointed out... and the two realms of Ephesians 1:10 (not taking place in the NOW)]

I don't think you guys have good explanations, and all the wranglings that it takes to maintain dispensationalism simply gives me a headache.
Your siggy [the massiveness of it!] gives me a headache every time I try to post a reply quoting your post, but I try not to complain. :D

I think some even believe "my brethren" refers exclusively to Jews, and that Gentiles are being rewarded in Matthew 25 strictly due to the way they treated Jews.
I don't believe it speaks "broadly" to Jews, but of those Jews in the Trib yrs who will have come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture (so the believing remnant of Jews, not the Unbelieving side), and who will then be "leading the charge" (though being in gravely-persecuted circumstances, because of their faith), and is who the early parts of Matt24 are speaking of "...for My names sake" and who will be the ones carrying the INVITATION *to* the kingdom age (per Matt24:14 [see also Rev7:9,14 (the RESULTS of that specific "msg")], Matt22:8-14 [/Rev19:9 (distinct from 19:7!)], this passage [vv.40,45 referring to them, as well as the earlier parts of Matt24 and even 25:1-13], and Daniel 12:1-4,6-7,10 (not a physical resurrection from the dead, like v.13 is! [so Rom11:15[25] also!]) and a number of other passages I've pointed to and listed in past posts...)
 

UnitedWithChrist

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I believe that "[come ye BLESSED of My Father] inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [apo [note: NOT "BEFORE - pro" used of OTHERS elsewhere! ;) ] the foundation of the world" is not the same thing as:

"I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."

[the whole "glory of God in two realms" thing I pointed out... and the two realms of Ephesians 1:10 (not taking place in the NOW)]



Your siggy [the massiveness of it!] gives me a headache every time I try to post a reply quoting your post, but I try not to complain. :D



I don't believe it speaks "broadly" to Jews, but of those Jews in the Trib yrs who will have come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture (so the believing remnant of Jews, not the Unbelieving side), and who will then be "leading the charge" (though being in gravely-persecuted circumstances, because of their faith), and is who the early parts of Matt24 are speaking of "...for My names sake" and who will be the ones carrying the INVITATION *to* the kingdom age (per Matt24:14 [see also Rev7:9,14 (the RESULTS of that specific "msg")], Matt22:8-14 [/Rev19:9 (distinct from 19:7!)], this passage [vv.40,45 referring to them, as well as the earlier parts of Matt24 and even 25:1-13], and Daniel 12:1-4,6-7,10 (not a physical resurrection from the dead, like v.13 is! [so Rom11:15[25] also!]) and a number of other passages I've pointed to and listed in past posts...)
:)

I like to feature a brief teaching in my signature :D
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Probably to pretend like there's a gap that Jesus simply left out :D
Except He didn't leave it out.

It's pretty much entirely what He was covering [Subject-wise... speaking toward] in His ministry while on earth.

He talked about it every time He referred to "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," and "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," and "the age [SINGULAR] to come," and the "G347 shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]," and when telling the 12 they would "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel," and the two times He mentioned the word "RETURN" (and what all would then take place at that point, in those passages, which then parallel OTHER passages still!), and so very much more... way too numerous to spell out here!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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:)
I like to feature a brief teaching in my signature :D
:D Pretty sure that by your choice of such a massive signature, that you feel you are justified in your "to strike [/smite] the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish" that you believe you are effecting [/putting into effect], LOL!!

[I'm onto you ;) ]
 

crossnote

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whats the premillennial comeback to this?
There are two Judgments.
Mt 25 takes place on earth before the Millennium.
The White Throne takes place in heaven after the Millennium.

If Mt 25 is the same as the WTJ then who are 'the least of these my brethren' (Mt 25:40)?

Besides if it was all one Judgment how do you explain this verse?...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.(Joh 5:24)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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this excerpted section pertaining to the distinction between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]" and the verses which others use to claim otherwise [i.e. that they are not distinct]:
[quoting FB Hole... EDIT: Nicolas Simon is the author]
"Beginning with the verses from Romans two: “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God” (Rom. 2:28-29). In the first three chapters of the Epistle to the Romans mankind is examined, so to speak, in the court of God. The verdict — both Jew and Gentile are found to be guilty! “For we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God” (Rom. 3:9-11). The verses used above fall, as it were, within the cross examination of the Jew (vss. 2:17-3:8). Being born a Jew did not make one righteous; no, God looked upon the heart. The Gentile is not in view at all in this portion; as to them, God rested His case in the earlier verses (vss. 1:19-2:16).

"We now turn our attention to the second verse [used by some to argue their viewpoint]: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As we have just seen, the first three chapters of this Epistle show both Jew and Gentile condemned by the Word of God. As far as that goes, they are indeed on common ground! This, however, presents a difficulty in the mind of the Jew. To them, the sovereign grace of God, which concludes all alike under judgment and which now holds out blessing for all, appears to set aside the special promises made to Israel — indeed, just as Covenant Theology has done. In Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven, the Apostle addresses this concern. […<snip>...]
"Paul begins in chapter nine by showing that the sovereign grace of God, in taking up the Gentile, does not make the Word of God (and especially the promises to Israel) of none effect (Rom. 9:6). The Jew, however, tenaciously clings to his natural descent as the guarantor of those promises. They have to learn otherwise. Of Abraham's two sons, Isaac, and not Ishmael, was the child of promise. With Jacob and Esau the argument is even stronger—they were twins born of the same parents (Ishmael had a different mother) and yet, even before they were born, Rebecca is told by God, “The elder shall serve the younger” (Rom. 9:12). This was God’s sovereign election. A Jew cannot simply rest upon his genealogy; for that matter, he never could. The principle, “the just shall live by his faith” (Hab. 2:4; Heb. 10:38), is indeed common to both the Old Testament and the New. When God looked down upon the Israel of old, He saw a faithful remnant in the midst of an unbelieving nation—this remnant was the true Israel of God.

"In conclusion, neither of the portions (in Romans chapters two and nine), used by Covenant Theologians, speak of a spiritual Israel extending beyond the fold of that nation; rather, these verses speak of a faithful sub-set within that people. It is a principle which excludes. It is not expansive—he is not a Jew; not all Israel."

--FB Hole [EDIT: Nicolas Simon is the author], Bible Truth Publishers

[end quoting; bold and underline mine; brackets mine]
Pretty sure I put the wrong author's name on this piece (I must have had a number of Tabs open at the same time and grabbed the incorrect "name/author" to put with this... MY APOLOGIES!!)

This excerpt was instead written by a "Nicolas Simon" at the SAME "Bible Truth Publishers" site:

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/pa...as-simon/the-holy-scriptures/n-simon/la158372

Again, my apologies for placing the wrong author's name to this article!




:geek: [checkin my glasses now...]

...pretty sure I have that right, now.
 

garee

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I believe that "[come ye BLESSED of My Father] inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [apo [note: NOT "BEFORE - pro" used of OTHERS elsewhere! ;) ] the foundation of the world" is not the same thing as:

"I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."

[the whole "glory of God in two realms" thing I pointed out... and the two realms of Ephesians 1:10 (not taking place in the NOW)]



Your siggy [the massiveness of it!] gives me a headache every time I try to post a reply quoting your post, but I try not to complain. :D



I don't believe it speaks "broadly" to Jews, but of those Jews in the Trib yrs who will have come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture (so the believing remnant of Jews, not the Unbelieving side), and who will then be "leading the charge" (though being in gravely-persecuted circumstances, because of their faith), and is who the early parts of Matt24 are speaking of "...for My names sake" and who will be the ones carrying the INVITATION *to* the kingdom age (per Matt24:14 [see also Rev7:9,14 (the RESULTS of that specific "msg")], Matt22:8-14 [/Rev19:9 (distinct from 19:7!)], this passage [vv.40,45 referring to them, as well as the earlier parts of Matt24 and even 25:1-13], and Daniel 12:1-4,6-7,10 (not a physical resurrection from the dead, like v.13 is! [so Rom11:15[25] also!]) and a number of other passages I've pointed to and listed in past posts...)

The work of salvation is what he has prepared for us. He performed that as the lamb of God slain from the 6 days he did work . The demonstration 2000 years ago points back to the first 6 days. Before his eternal rest the seventh.

Six times in in book of John he refers to the last day or day of the Lord in Revelation 1. Doing its two fold work faithfully casting the letter of the law death into the fiery judgment never to rise and condemn a whole creation . And in the same twinkling of the eye. The promise of our living hope the new incorruptible body .Then the glory of God will appear. and there will be no night.

hn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

garee

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There are two Judgments.
Mt 25 takes place on earth before the Millennium.
The White Throne takes place in heaven after the Millennium.

If Mt 25 is the same as the WTJ then who are 'the least of these my brethren' (Mt 25:40)?

Besides if it was all one Judgment how do you explain this verse?...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.(Joh 5:24)
The ones that have passed from death to life are those who are written in the lambs book of life. Those who are under the judgement of the letter of the law are judged because they do not have the faith of Christ needed to believe God.

The wrath of God shows the first judgment all die. The what you call second judgment is when death as the letter of the law.It will not rise and corrupt a whole creation ever again. Christ in that sense sat in the judgment seat of Christ. No double jeopardy
 

crossnote

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The ones that have passed from death to life are those who are written in the lambs book of life. Those who are under the judgement of the letter of the law are judged because they do not have the faith of Christ needed to believe God.

The wrath of God shows the first judgment all die. The what you call second judgment is when death as the letter of the law.It will not rise and corrupt a whole creation ever again. Christ in that sense sat in the judgment seat of Christ. No double jeopardy
Why can't we simply say John 5:24 pertains to believers and Rev 20 applies to the rest of mankind?
 

UnitedWithChrist

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By the way, I am relatively new to amillennialism...

But, simply by the behavior of premillennial dispensationalist teachers, I would be persuaded AGAINST believing their theology because they practice cultic techniques including propagandistic slams.

And, this includes many well-known dispensationalists.

The main claims are: 1) amillennialists use "allegory" in the sense of Roman Catholic hermeneutics and 2) amillennialists are antiSemitic.

Well, I've been around amillennialists enough to know that this is not true.

With the first claim, amillennialists simply recognize figurative language and symbols. So do dispensationalists when it fits their doctrine, but when it doesn't, they cry foul and accuse amillennialists of "allegorization" and "spiritualizing", when they themselves employ it when it does not interfere with their dispensationalist doctrine.

Amillennialists consider the genre of the individual book, and whether the genre is likely to use figurative language and symbols. Certainly prophecy and poetry fit this category.

With the second claim, I have not heard any amillennialist making antiSemitic claims. In fact, amillennialists realize that Jesus is a Jew, and to be antiSemitic would be absurd.

And, just because Roman Catholics and Martin Luther made some antiSemitic remarks does not mean that this can be generalized to all amillennialists, or the normative amillennial position.

I'll give you videos of two examples regarding these kinds of claims from a Chosen People conference. Recognize that these videos are not ignorant laymen making random remarks, but they are acknowledged dispensationalist authority figures:

Here's the first one (notice the inference that non-dispensationalist Christians hate Jews, which, again, is absurd because amillennialists hid Jews during the Holocaust too):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNM4fFCcQC0

Here's the second one:



Notice the second speaker claims that believers are also "high priests". This is ridiculous. Only Jesus is high priest. These guys need to understand the Bible first before they teach others.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Sorry, I got the order switched on the videos and comments.

By the way, I am relatively new to amillennialism...

But, simply by the behavior of premillennial dispensationalist teachers, I would be persuaded AGAINST believing their theology because they practice cultic techniques including propagandistic slams.

And, this includes many well-known dispensationalists.

The main claims are: 1) amillennialists use "allegory" in the sense of Roman Catholic hermeneutics and 2) amillennialists are antiSemitic.

Well, I've been around amillennialists enough to know that this is not true.

With the first claim, amillennialists simply recognize figurative language and symbols. So do dispensationalists when it fits their doctrine, but when it doesn't, they cry foul and accuse amillennialists of "allegorization" and "spiritualizing", when they themselves employ it when it does not interfere with their dispensationalist doctrine.

Amillennialists consider the genre of the individual book, and whether the genre is likely to use figurative language and symbols. Certainly prophecy and poetry fit this category.

With the second claim, I have not heard any amillennialist making antiSemitic claims. In fact, amillennialists realize that Jesus is a Jew, and to be antiSemitic would be absurd.

And, just because Roman Catholics and Martin Luther made some antiSemitic remarks does not mean that this can be generalized to all amillennialists, or the normative amillennial position.

I'll give you videos of two examples regarding these kinds of claims from a Chosen People conference. Recognize that these videos are not ignorant laymen making random remarks, but they are acknowledged dispensationalist authority figures:

Here's the first one (notice the inference that non-dispensationalist Christians hate Jews, which, again, is absurd because amillennialists hid Jews during the Holocaust too):


Here's the second one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNM4fFCcQC0

Notice the second speaker claims that believers are also "high priests". This is ridiculous. Only Jesus is high priest. These guys need to understand the Bible first before they teach others.

His explanation of amillennial hermeneutics is false. But, notice that he is affirming that their interpretation has some merit even while he slanders it.

And, this guy is a professor at Moody Bible Institute.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Matthew 25 states that all nations will be assembled at the return of Christ and will be judged. Eternal life or eternal punishment are the two options..no other.
And, there is no intervening period. […<snip>…]]
So, when Christ returns, this happens:
Matthew 25:46 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(ESV)
There is no room for an intervening period.
It seems you did not take a look at the verses I attached with this point in the chronology ^ .

I'd said:

"The "intervening" time-period is NOT "between His 2nd Coming/Return to the earth" [here] and the START of the MK age; but [instead]

"…[but] IS the MK age [the time-period between His "2nd Coming/Return to the earth [Rev19:19,21/16:14-16,20:5, i.e. the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22]" and the later "GWTj [Rev20:11-15, i.e. the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22!]"

So,

at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (which is when the Sheep and goat judgment/separation takes place), this is also when Revelation 19:21 takes place: "and the remnant WAS SLAIN" (the first of the two "punish" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], which is followed by a time-period [the MK age transpiring on the earth, minus the ones "SLAIN"] and then [after that] the second of the two "punish" words in Isa24:21-22 is carried out).

Once the "was slain" takes place at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot (this being the SAME point in time as "And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT" of Matt25:46a, BECAUSE once a person DIES [Rev19:21] there is NO CHANGING their eternal status, so to speak; there is no "reversing" of the sentence, no further "opportunity" to change the outcome (the "sentence" is FOREVER SET). Yet the MK age will go on without them being present on the earth (this is the "time-period" that follows the first of the two "punish" words in Isa24:21-22[23]--and the second "punish" word in Isa24:21-22 is the later GWTj, but this does NOT mean that the earlier "punish" word was not an 'ETERNAL' SENTENCING, so to speak, for they DIED and there is no changing the verdict AFTER DEATH! It is ETERNAL).
 

UnitedWithChrist

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It seems you did not take a look at the verses I attached with this point in the chronology ^ .

I'd said:

"The "intervening" time-period is NOT "between His 2nd Coming/Return to the earth" [here] and the START of the MK age; but [instead]

"…[but] IS the MK age [the time-period between His "2nd Coming/Return to the earth [Rev19:19,21/16:14-16,20:5, i.e. the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22]" and the later "GWTj [Rev20:11-15, i.e. the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22!]"

So,

at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (which is when the Sheep and goat judgment/separation takes place), this is also when Revelation 19:21 takes place: "and the remnant WAS SLAIN" (the first of the two "punish" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], which is followed by a time-period [the MK age] and then the second of the two "punish" words in Isa24:21-22 is carried out).

Once the "was slain" takes place at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot (this being the SAME point in time as "And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT" of Matt25:46a, BECAUSE once a person DIES [Rev19:21] there is NO CHANGING their eternal status, so to speak; there is no "reversing" of the sentence, no further "opportunity" to change the outcome (the "sentence" is FOREVER SET). Yet the MK age will go on without them being present on the earth (this is the "time-period" that follows the first of the two "punish" words in Isa24:21-22[23]--and the second "punish" word in Isa24:21-22 is the later GWTj, but this does NOT mean that the earlier "punish" word was not an 'ETERNAL' SENTENCING, so to speak, for they DIED and there is no changing the verdict AFTER DEATH! It is ETERNAL).
I'm sure it all works out in your dispy worldview, but it sounds too complicated for me to swallow.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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By the way, what was your point regarding the "lamb's book of life" and the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world"?

I'm not sure why that verse causes dispensationalists to feel a burr under their saddle, but after looking at that closely, it's irrelevant to me.

If the Lamb's book of life was written before the foundation of the world, or he was slain before the foundation of the world, there is no difference. The Lamb's book of life being written before the foundation of the world means that his sacrifice was also determined before the foundation of the world, else the book would not be called the Lamb's book of life. Do you know the meaning behind the Passover lamb?

So, if you can explain to me why you made such a big deal over this verse, I would find it interesting. Put it in potato-head language, though, so I don't have to spend an hour trying to figure out your gyrations.

What do you object to, and why does it assault your dispie sensitivities?

It was mentioned in a book I've been reading comparing dispensationalism and covenant theology..I suppose it might be due to the objection to the "covenant of redemption"....however, it's plain to me that the Triune God foreknew every event so why would he not make provision for mankind's salvation before any of the necessary factors presented themselves?

:)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Revelation 19:21 ['WAS SLAIN'] and Isaiah 24:21-22's first of two "PUNISH" words are both followed by a TIME PERIOD which "amill-teachings" fail to recognize and acknowledge