An Appeal: Lift the ban on Hyper-Grace

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#21
Hyper-grace is the idea that all sins are forgiven and we never have to confess our transgressions as Christians after redemption and regeneration.
I personally feel that Christians should be able to discuss anything that arrives within the body of the church. We have God. What is there to fear on the mortal worldly plain that would make us mute ourselves?
It isn't that we are not to confess our transgressions. The question is, for what reason are they being confessed? Is it to be open with the Lord about our shortcomings and seeking His deliverance and sanctification (from such sin) or is it for forgiveness, to maintain salvation and justification before God? The latter is where it could be argued there is faulty logic because it contradicts the work of Christ, making it of no effect. Is forgiveness found through the blood of Christ, a once and for all sacrifice for all sin, or is it through our own work of confession, as a means of "staying justified"?

This is one area that also is misunderstood, the total forgiveness of sin the believer has in Christ, due to His work and present ministry.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
#22
But Ben surely you can just make a thread revealing what scripture says about good ol' grace then, you know? In its base form, without taking it to...

"HYPER-MODEAHHHHHHH!!"
powerup.gif


"ABOUNDINGGG!! ABOUNDINGGGGGAAHHHHH!!"
powerup2.gif

----

(Just Joshing with the gifs. I mean no disrespect)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,567
709
113
29
#23
But Ben surely you can just make a thread revealing what scripture says about good ol' grace then, you know? In its base form, without taking it to...

"HYPER-MODEAHHHHHHH!!"
View attachment 187858


"ABOUNDINGGG!! ABOUNDINGGGGGAAHHHHH!!"
View attachment 187859

----

(Just Joshing with the gifs. I mean no disrespect)
That was funny, I enjoyed the gifs. This is more so a matter of principle, and people not feeling like they must have apprehension speaking on topics that fall under "hyper grace."
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#24
It isn't that we are not to confess our transgressions. The question is, for what reason are they being confessed? Is it to be open with the Lord about our shortcomings and seeking His deliverance and sanctification (from such sin) or is it for forgiveness, to maintain salvation and justification before God? The latter is where it could be argued there is faulty logic because it contradicts the work of Christ, making it of no effect. Is forgiveness found through the blood of Christ, a once and for all sacrifice for all sin, or is it through our own work of confession, as a means of "staying justified"?

This is one area that also is misunderstood, the total forgiveness of sin the believer has in Christ, due to His work and present ministry.
Ben, yes exactly as you once posted many moons ago.....

The word "confess" simply means to agree with God.

The word in Greek means according to Strong's G3670 - homologeō - ὁμολογέω is to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent.

Confess does not mean to ask for forgiveness.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,567
709
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#25
@CS1 Would you mind weighing in on this? This is an appeal that I hope you and other moderators will heartfully consider.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#26
I think it’s sad when people argue about the grace of God.

I wonder what God thinks.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
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#27
Hypergrace was banned because of the war brought on by a group of people that would do anythign they could to attack the subject. As the op said, most of them have been banned, As well as many who got so angry and responded to them in kind

It is also still spoken of and talked about alot. Some people still are so focussed on hyper grace they can not have a normal converation because they see anyone that teaches grace and people who fell for this heresy as they call it.

Most of the issue with Hypergrace teachers is the “wealth and health” aspect anyway, Which has nothign to do with salvation or how one is saved. And many of the claims against the gospel of hypergrace were proven to be found wrong anyway (ie, a large argument against is that J Prince did not teach one should confess their sin after they were saved. Which was proven wrong by his own words. Where he said we should)

In my view, I would we would stop discussing these groups of people
(hypergrace/calvanism/catholicism/osas etc etc) and start discussing what the word says, without our preconcieved ideas, our discussions would be much more fruitful. When I was a baptist in the later years, I stopped telling people I was a baptist because people would hear that and assumed they already know what I believed, Which alot of time they had no idea. But it hindered our discussion because every word I said was sifted through their preconcieved ideas of what I was saying so they could never understand what I was saying.

This happens far to often in here. Thats the issue, Not hypergrace. Or OSAS or any of the other things, but people and their pride and refusal to stop and listen, ie, “What is this person trying to say”, instead of “I already knows what he believes so I will continue to attack him in this area” even though they fail to see the person does not even believe what they assume he does.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,004
2,068
113
#28
@CS1 Would you mind weighing in on this? This is an appeal that I hope you and other moderators will heartfully consider.
Are you having a Sparticus moment?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,851
4,331
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#29
I have not found where the ban was meant to be temporary

you wouldn't exaggerate now would you Ben? to try and swing it you way?

here's why it was banned

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

as there is absolutely no reason whatsoever the doctrines of grace, justification, sanctification and so on cannot be discussed without the use of the term hyper-grace, I am on the edge of thinking there is something else behind your request.

at any rate, God's grace is not hyper anything. It is constant and we can depend on Him because He does not change. there is grace for everyone but not everyone accepts His grace

there has been some extremely faulty teaching that accompanies the grace debates, as I already noted and perhaps some of the people banned were banned for those reasons as this forum does not allow teaching contrary to scripture to go on and on. they do allow some, but if it continues people have been banned for continuing in the unbiblical teaching

I was actually pretty much on the side of so called 'hyper' grace until the other teaching crept in and there was more and more of it.

that woke me up and I decided that if a person comes to such understanding and believes these things, then perhaps certain teachers should not be allowed...I'm speaking of the videos etc. as this is not a teaching platform although some people certainly seem to try and use it that way

to this day, I am not sure people understood all that was being presented. quite a bit was simply the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie

the mods do have the final say of course, but I certainly do not see where the ban was a temporary fix.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,567
709
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#30
I have not found where the ban was meant to be temporary

you wouldn't exaggerate now would you Ben? to try and swing it you way?

here's why it was banned

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

as there is absolutely no reason whatsoever the doctrines of grace, justification, sanctification and so on cannot be discussed without the use of the term hyper-grace, I am on the edge of thinking there is something else behind your request.

at any rate, God's grace is not hyper anything. It is constant and we can depend on Him because He does not change. there is grace for everyone but not everyone accepts His grace

there has been some extremely faulty teaching that accompanies the grace debates, as I already noted and perhaps some of the people banned were banned for those reasons as this forum does not allow teaching contrary to scripture to go on and on. they do allow some, but if it continues people have been banned for continuing in the unbiblical teaching

I was actually pretty much on the side of so called 'hyper' grace until the other teaching crept in and there was more and more of it.

that woke me up and I decided that if a person comes to such understanding and believes these things, then perhaps certain teachers should not be allowed...I'm speaking of the videos etc. as this is not a teaching platform although some people certainly seem to try and use it that way

to this day, I am not sure people understood all that was being presented. quite a bit was simply the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie

the mods do have the final say of course, but I certainly do not see where the ban was a temporary fix.
Let me give you an analogy, and please bare with me. When you discipline your children who might be fighting with each other, you may decide to give them a time out or ground them. This time out is temporary, not indefinite. It is to let them consider their actions and reflect upon what they are doing.

Likewise, what was the purpose of this ban? To calm the onslaught that was between two groups of users, that became very pervasive. Specific users, in fact. Users who have been banned on both sides or moved on. Hence, the purpose for the ban was, in fact, for a temporal purpose, to give the kids a time out. It isn't meant to be indefinite, but was used as a means of calming the waters.

There is no need for you to imply ulterior motives, or a hidden agenda. I have been very plain as to why I have presented this appeal. Simply put, it served a temporal purpose, and such people have moved on. Secondly, it limits free discourse on an open platform for Christians to discuss topics relevant to them. Hyper-grace, whether we like it or not, is a hot topic in Christian circles, that unfortunately has many misconceptions around it.

Do I believe in hyper-grace? I believe in many of the doctrines that may fall under that umbrella (term), but I believe in God's Word. I can make an argument for some of the doctrines I agree with under hyper-grace, convincingly I hope (because they truly are doctrines of importance). So yes I would like to be able to discuss these things without having apprehension and 'Ooh he is talking about hyper-grace, incoming ban" speculations, when the ban isn't even about hyper-grace itself, but conduct.

People are being limited in their discussions today from the actions of a few people two years ago. I think that the ban has served its purpose, and now just sits there, for no reason. Whether CC likes it or not, or any of us like it, just as there are many people in agreement with OSAS or losing one's salvation (both very vocal lately) there are believers who agree with doctrines defined as "hyper-grace" and those that are against such beliefs. It isn't fair to quiet one side, that many people align with.

It is a matter of principle. Free discourse on an open platform. Its Christian chat, let the Christians chat.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,567
709
113
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#31
Considering @Oncefallen was part of the decision I'd also like to bring this to your attention by bringing up your name in this post.

Hey Oncefallen, lol. :) Even you yourself pointed out the issue was contention, a free for all that people couldn't constrain themselves. One could equally make the argument that today the pervasiveness of hyper-grace is now replaced with OSAS vs loss of salvation, and so it seems that things just go in cycles. One topic out and another one in. Regardless, the whole ban had to do with conduct. The conduct of people who for the most part have moved on (bans, time, etc). It now just sits there, quieting people from freely expressing themselves.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,851
4,331
113
#32
well I tell you what

if I had children fighting over something that was hurting both parties? I would not give them a time out out

I would give the implement of their mutual pain a permanent time out as in remove it

I made the case for God's grace period. people might ask themselves why someone put a hyper in front of it

is there a reason people must by swayed that God's grace is hyper? His grace is ALL sufficient.

frankly, I find the argument...for lack of a better word I'm not arguing and I don't think you are...for wanting to discuss justification etc with the inclusion of the word hyper to be illogical. I find God very logical. I am swayed by the logic of Paul's arguments and I believe

this forum, of which I have been a member longer than my profile indicates as I left and came back, did just dandy before the intro of hyper anything.

I'm not sure which principal is being applied to your desire to persuade the whole parade to start all over because I guarantee you there will be no change and it will ramp up the same

I am looking at both sides of the issue and I have an excellent memory. I can play the whole thing back without much effort so while agreeing that it is most definitely Christian Chat, it is not an open platform.

in fact, every social site has rules and the owners run it as they please, to the chagrin of some and the pleasure of others. you may have noticed that, especially lately


this site is privately owned and there is no advertising on it such as on others. people are free to donate or not. perhaps a monthly amount would be applicable, but no. the owner makes it available to all but I am pretty sure that your 'free discourse', which really ended up more like a 'free for all', is not a very good witness for Christians and certainly not for those who do not know Christ

why do you or anyone need to persuade those who are already believers that hyper grace as taught by Prince and others, is something that this forum needs?

again, at the risk of boring you and anyone else still reading, there is no need for the intro or re-intro of hyper grace when any discussion on God's grace, taken IN context from scripture is sufficient to convince the hardest heart is is ENOUGH if they are going to respond to the gospel

discussing God's grace does not need video after video of Prince teaching or preaching and it does not need copy/paste after copy/paste inserted to make an arguement that an individual should really be making from God's word

you say let the Christians Chat, but we were being inundated by a few people's desires to present what they consider we all should believe and every person here is able to tune into those people if they want and watch till the cows come home and they can go to the copy/pastes sites and read those instead of their Bibles

just a totally illogical presentation Ben IMO

I said yesterday I was going to leave off responding and I think that would be best for me. I don't need to spend time on here making a case that contradicts what you say.

like I said, the mods will do what they do and I guess we will all respond as we do

but I say thanks, but NO thanks
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#33
I want to start this appeal off by thanking the moderators for their work, their time, and patience throughout the years. You've probably felt like you were baby-sitting children at times, especially when hyper-grace and law were the sole focus of discussion for a very long period of time. The reason I bring this appeal to the moderators of CC is that the ban on hyper-grace wasn't (and isn't) so much about the doctrines of hyper-grace, but the conduct of its participants in its discussion. I would argue that many of the people in its discussion at that time either have been banned or moved on since then, and some have stayed (such as myself). The ban was on the conduct surrounding its discussion, not the topic itself truly. The reason the topic was banned wasn't due to its content, again, but the content of our character.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/

CS1 (moderator at CC) said, "Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed." As we clearly see, the concern wasn't so much for the belief systems of hyper-grace, or law, but conduct.

I find that the ban is outdated and old, hence why I marked it as such awhile back. It also hinders discussions on topics that could be beneficial, such as justification and knowing our standing before God based upon the work of Christ. No condemnation as a result of Christ as our High Priest, and the blood of Christ. These are so called "doctrines of hyper-grace" but truly, they are truths found in God's Word. With a ban on the subject, that really isn't enforced (we've all seen threads on the topic), its just a superficial ban, just there as a scar bringing up the past.

The appeal is to un-sticky the hyper-grace ban, and to remove the ban all together. It served its purpose in quieting down the vitriol and back and forth of users at the time, some of those users having been banned or moved on since. Its just been there permanently, when in fact it really was there to serve a temporal purpose. That purpose was achieved and now only serves to hinder discussion on what could lead to interesting, uplifting, and edifying topics revolved around Jesus.

Thank you, moderators, for considering my appeal and for taking the time to read all of what has been written. I appreciate all of your efforts to keep the site running smoothly and appropriately, upholding our Christian witness and honoring God with our actions.
I think hypergrace doctrine was being understood by the mods as the prosperity gospel.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,004
2,068
113
#34
We do not need hyper grace teaching. We do not need Joel Olsten's teaching. We do need to discuss sound doctrine and exhort each other to contemplate the word of God. We must defend the faith not undermine the faith.

There is no more urgent business for believers than to witness for Christ that others might come to a genuine saving knowledge of Him. Teach and preach the gospel as it is presented in the bible.

Separate from the world and its ways.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,567
709
113
29
#36
well I tell you what

if I had children fighting over something that was hurting both parties? I would not give them a time out out

I would give the implement of their mutual pain a permanent time out as in remove it

I made the case for God's grace period. people might ask themselves why someone put a hyper in front of it

is there a reason people must by swayed that God's grace is hyper? His grace is ALL sufficient.

frankly, I find the argument...for lack of a better word I'm not arguing and I don't think you are...for wanting to discuss justification etc with the inclusion of the word hyper to be illogical. I find God very logical. I am swayed by the logic of Paul's arguments and I believe

this forum, of which I have been a member longer than my profile indicates as I left and came back, did just dandy before the intro of hyper anything.

I'm not sure which principal is being applied to your desire to persuade the whole parade to start all over because I guarantee you there will be no change and it will ramp up the same

I am looking at both sides of the issue and I have an excellent memory. I can play the whole thing back without much effort so while agreeing that it is most definitely Christian Chat, it is not an open platform.

in fact, every social site has rules and the owners run it as they please, to the chagrin of some and the pleasure of others. you may have noticed that, especially lately


this site is privately owned and there is no advertising on it such as on others. people are free to donate or not. perhaps a monthly amount would be applicable, but no. the owner makes it available to all but I am pretty sure that your 'free discourse', which really ended up more like a 'free for all', is not a very good witness for Christians and certainly not for those who do not know Christ

why do you or anyone need to persuade those who are already believers that hyper grace as taught by Prince and others, is something that this forum needs?

again, at the risk of boring you and anyone else still reading, there is no need for the intro or re-intro of hyper grace when any discussion on God's grace, taken IN context from scripture is sufficient to convince the hardest heart is is ENOUGH if they are going to respond to the gospel

discussing God's grace does not need video after video of Prince teaching or preaching and it does not need copy/paste after copy/paste inserted to make an arguement that an individual should really be making from God's word

you say let the Christians Chat, but we were being inundated by a few people's desires to present what they consider we all should believe and every person here is able to tune into those people if they want and watch till the cows come home and they can go to the copy/pastes sites and read those instead of their Bibles

just a totally illogical presentation Ben IMO

I said yesterday I was going to leave off responding and I think that would be best for me. I don't need to spend time on here making a case that contradicts what you say.

like I said, the mods will do what they do and I guess we will all respond as we do

but I say thanks, but NO thanks
I will say it again 7keysrekeyed. You're putting the emphasis on hyper-grace, I am putting it on free discourse. Being allowed to discuss topics relevant to Christians today. I think the ban was necessary, at the time. It is long past due. It served its temporal purpose. I could equally see a ban on OSAS (under the same premise for the ban on hyper-grace), but that would pretty much silence all discussion, lol. I wouldn't want that ban though, because it is an important discussion that emphasizes Christ's work, giving Him the glory He deserves. Likewise, certain doctrines that fall under hyper-grace are important to discuss.

I do not put hyper in front of God's grace, as I explained to you. That was a term coined in opposition to teachings revolved around the grace of God. A term used to vilify a teaching. The person who coined the term though has pulled back from their initial standings, and have even found places of agreement amongst their differences.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,380
1,269
113
#37
Two kinds of grace .The fulness of... or partial as to a undetermined amount called Catholic grace with purgatory to finish that which they say Christ has not.. One does despite to God's grace our teacher the other fulfills as a hyperlink to forgiveness.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#38
I want to start this appeal off by thanking the moderators for their work, their time, and patience throughout the years. You've probably felt like you were baby-sitting children at times, especially when hyper-grace and law were the sole focus of discussion for a very long period of time. The reason I bring this appeal to the moderators of CC is that the ban on hyper-grace wasn't (and isn't) so much about the doctrines of hyper-grace, but the conduct of its participants in its discussion. I would argue that many of the people in its discussion at that time either have been banned or moved on since then, and some have stayed (such as myself). The ban was on the conduct surrounding its discussion, not the topic itself truly. The reason the topic was banned wasn't due to its content, again, but the content of our character.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/

CS1 (moderator at CC) said, "Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed." As we clearly see, the concern wasn't so much for the belief systems of hyper-grace, or law, but conduct.

I find that the ban is outdated and old, hence why I marked it as such awhile back. It also hinders discussions on topics that could be beneficial, such as justification and knowing our standing before God based upon the work of Christ. No condemnation as a result of Christ as our High Priest, and the blood of Christ. These are so called "doctrines of hyper-grace" but truly, they are truths found in God's Word. With a ban on the subject, that really isn't enforced (we've all seen threads on the topic), its just a superficial ban, just there as a scar bringing up the past.

The appeal is to un-sticky the hyper-grace ban, and to remove the ban all together. It served its purpose in quieting down the vitriol and back and forth of users at the time, some of those users having been banned or moved on since. Its just been there permanently, when in fact it really was there to serve a temporal purpose. That purpose was achieved and now only serves to hinder discussion on what could lead to interesting, uplifting, and edifying topics revolved around Jesus.

Thank you, moderators, for considering my appeal and for taking the time to read all of what has been written. I appreciate all of your efforts to keep the site running smoothly and appropriately, upholding our Christian witness and honoring God with our actions.

Beings that I Have found nowhere in the Bible, any mention of such a "critter" named "hyper-ANYTHING?" I (speaking for myself only), can only see this as some "tradition of man" doctrinal's.

Course, the same can be said for OSAS, and Calvinistic's verses Armaenian's "doctrinal's" as well! Just to mention some of the more prevalent, or "popular(?)" "Theology's" "cussed and discussed" in this venue.

Having said that? I have, nor have had any reservations concerning, what I myself consider, just "another" traditions of men, or doing that which seems good, in the eyes of men.

Cuz, when Jesus was scolding the Pharisee's concerning their traditions of men? I feel fairly certain, and confident in saying: THIS, was where Jesus was "quoting" from! Albeit, in an "updated" rendition! ;)


Jeremiah 17 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

“Y’hudah’s sin is written with an iron pen;
with a diamond point it is engraved
on the tablet of their hearts
and on the horns of your altars.
2
As they remember their children,
so they remember their altars
and their sacred poles by the green trees
on the high hills.
3
My mountain in the field, your wealth
and all your treasures will be plundered;
because of the sin of your high places
throughout your territory.
4
You will relinquish your hold
on your heritage which I gave you.
I will make you serve your enemies
in a land you do not know.
For you have kindled my fiery anger,
and it will burn forever.”
5
Here is what Adonai says:

“A curse on the person who trusts in humans,
who relies on merely human strength,
whose heart turns away from Adonai.
6
He will be like a tamarisk in the ‘Aravah —
when relief comes, it is unaffected;
for it lives in the sun-baked desert,
in salty, uninhabited land.

But, in defense of the "mods" banning "hyper gracing" threads? I witnessed that with hyper grace? Came "hyper spamming!"

You may correct me if I'm wrong here! :)
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,417
1,018
113
#39
@CS1 Would you mind weighing in on this? This is an appeal that I hope you and other moderators will heartfully consider.
BenFtw can I ask you what is Hyper-Grace? then I will weight in.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,303
432
83
#40
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Jesus can keep us from falling, but that is only if you allow the Spirit to lead you.

But some people say they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, which is not true, and many hold unto sin because of that and say hyper grace.

If they sin they do it on purpose, and they cannot abstain from sin does not apply, but they want to enjoy sins, fleshy pleasures, and worldly ways with their worldly movies, and television, and music, and entertainment, money, and material things, and then say hyper grace.