An Appeal: Lift the ban on Hyper-Grace

[rlm68]

First of all, NONE OF US BELIEVERS are worthy of God and His AMAZING GRACE!!

Secondly, we ALL sin daily and that is a complete tragedy knowing what God personally did for us upon the CROSS!!

Thirdly, anyone with a brain will always be in prayer and seeking forgiveness due to the fact we are nothing but filthy rags compared to the absolute HOLINESS of our God!!

Fourthly, IF ONE IS TRULY SAVED...then that ONE would not want to commit such sins to begin with!!

Fifthly, Grace is a CONDITION based upon the MERCY of God...MEANING...only a complete moron would believe they have Grace to sin when it is God's MERCY that keeps God from striking us dead!! It's why He died for us, because He took His wrath deserved for us and applied it to Himself!!

And last but not least, Isaiah described an altar in heaven. Altars have ONE PURPOSE...to bare the sins and find forgiveness.

MAYBE IF SOME OF US FOUND AN ALTAR AND FELL UPON OUR FACES BEFORE GOD, WE WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT GRACE AND BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT GROWING CLOSER TO GOD.

PEOPLE ONLY USE THE TERM GRACE WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE FULL OF SIN!!

It is an complete HYPOCRISY!!

May some of YOU discover God's MERCY, because Grace and the idealism behind it is a lie from the pits of HELL!!

 

[NayborBear]

Colossians 1

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers : all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Putting Jesus' name on a "prosperity gospel?" Does not "brighten the corner" where this comes from yanno?

jez sayin'

(gotta go cut the grass....color me gone!)

 

[UnderGrace]

First of all, NONE OF US BELIEVERS are worthy of God and His AMAZING GRACE!!

Secondly, we ALL sin daily and that is a complete tragedy knowing what God personally did for us upon the CROSS!!

Thirdly, anyone with a brain will always be in prayer and seeking forgiveness due to the fact we are nothing but filthy rags compared to the absolute HOLINESS of our God!!

Fourthly, IF ONE IS TRULY SAVED...then that ONE would not want to commit such sins to begin with!!

Fifthly, Grace is a CONDITION based upon the MERCY of God...MEANING...only a complete moron would believe they have Grace to sin when it is God's MERCY that keeps God from striking us dead!! It's why He died for us, because He took His wrath deserved for us and applied it to Himself!!

And last but not least, Isaiah described an altar in heaven. Altars have ONE PURPOSE...to bare the sins and find forgiveness.

MAYBE IF SOME OF US FOUND AN ALTAR AND FELL UPON OUR FACES BEFORE GOD, WE WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT GRACE AND BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT GROWING CLOSER TO GOD.

PEOPLE ONLY USE THE TERM GRACE WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE FULL OF SIN!!

It is an complete HYPOCRISY!!

May some of YOU discover God's MERCY, because Grace and the idealism behind it is a lie from the pits of HELL!!

Well it would seem you have redefined the grace of God to suit your own dogma.

we are nothing but filthy rags

Not true, you have wretched this scripture from its context. People are not filthy rags ...... perhaps this is how you view them Not God!!

PEOPLE ONLY USE THE TERM GRACE WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE FULL OF SIN!!

Grace is the divine influence of God on the hearts of men and God calls us to partake liberally, something you obviously have a problem with.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

PEOPLE ONLY USE THE TERM GRACE WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE FULL OF SIN!!

It is an complete HYPOCRISY!!

May some of YOU discover God's MERCY, because Grace and the idealism behind it is a lie from the pits of HELL!!

pound the pulpit much?

people only talk about the grace of God when they know they are full of sin?

at what point do you believe God no longer sees your sin but sees you as a new creation in Christ?

while I don't agree with the HG agenda, I certainly do NOT agree with this kind of blasting people either

may God deliver us from both

 

[UnderGrace]

BenFtw can I ask you what is Hyper-Grace? then I will weight in.

Here is a start


From Dictionary.com
hyper: word-forming element meaning "over, above, beyond, exceedingly, to excess," from Greek hyper (prep. and adv.) "over, beyond, overmuch, above measure," from PIE super- "over" (see super-).

From the Bible -

"Where sin increased, grace *abounded* all the more." Romans 5:20

From The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon -

Strong's Number: 5248
Original Word Word Origin
uperperisseuo from (5228) and (4052)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Huperperisseuo 6:58,828
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
hoop-er-per-is-syoo'-o Verb
Definition

to abound beyond measure, abound exceedingly
to overflow, to enjoy abundantly

NAS Word Usage - Total: 3
abounded all 1, abounded all the more 1, overflowing 1

The term "hyper-grace" was coined because the word abounded had "huper" in its definition.

As with all things, some lesser known writers and people who oppose the teaching, riding on the coat tails of someone else's fame, have used it and twisted to mean you can sin all you want and it is all okay.

 

[BenFTW]

BenFtw can I ask you what is Hyper-Grace? then I will weight in.

I will give you my definition of hyper-grace in a moment, but I will say, that isn't at the heart of the "issue." It is withholding discourse on a topic that is common amongst Christians (I have even been in church where young adults asked the pastor what it was). This platform allows us to discuss openly and freely (usually without scrutiny unless it attacks tenets of the faith). Hyper-grace doesn't attack tenets of the faith, but upholds them, fleshes them out (by explaining in detail the intricacies of the finished work of Jesus Christ, and all that He has done for us, including the effects of such work).

At the core hyper-grace (the term) originated from a man named Michael Brown, and he coined the term because he believed people were taking God's grace too far and dismissing holiness. He would post on holiness on Facebook, and would get responses that seemed to dismiss the call we have of righteousness and holiness. It concerned him, and he ended up writing a book on it. He then also misunderstood teachers of this "grace message" and misconstrued things they taught, in ignorance. He has since sat down with so called leaders of hyper-grace, such as Joseph Prince, having seen the division such a disagreement was causing in the Body of Christ.

After such discussions he saw that he was in error with some of his understandings of their teachings, and realized they had more in common than he thought. That they served the same Lord, and Savior. That they do indeed preach holiness and righteousness, and those that endorse any lifestyle of sin do not understand the grace of God that sets us free.

Hyper-grace then is in essence an understanding of God's forgiveness and justification that reconciles us to God, thereby removing condemnation (a tool of the enemy), permitting us to fellowship with the Lord unhindered.
It breaks down religious walls of legalism that attempts to raise up the wall Christ tore down. It puts emphasis, and due glory, on Christ our Redeemer. It attempts to reveal God as our Father, who loves us, doesn't condemn us, and wishes to fellowship with us. None of this is truly "hyper-grace", the term coined by Michael Brown, but is God's grace revealed throughout scripture. Especially in Hebrews.

The areas that are controversial are centered on misconceptions and error, thinking that God's grace is a license to sin is not taught by any known, prominent, grace preacher. The call is the same, to serve the Lord and fellowship with Him, to love others. Only the motivation is different, and the reason that is, is that people often pursue from God, as if it must be earned, that which He has freely provided in Christ. The foundation then of so called "hyper-grace teaching" is to fully explain all that Christ has purchased for us through His blood (total forgiveness of sin, reconciliation to the Father, assurance of salvation, etc). Things that any prudent bible reading Christian would come in agreement with.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

 

[BenFTW]

For anyone interested in the chat between Michael Brown and Joseph Prince, here is the article: https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/62639-my-meeting-with-joseph-prince

 

[Ralph-]

The areas that are controversial are centered on misconceptions and error, thinking that God's grace is a license to sin is not taught by any known, prominent, grace preacher.

Well of course they don't say that. What Hypergrace teaches is you CAN make grace a license to sin, and even go back to unbelief, and you will still be saved when Jesus comes back. (Brace yourself for all the denials, folks).

The foundation then of so called "hyper-grace teaching" is to fully explain all that Christ has purchased for us through His blood (total forgiveness of sin, reconciliation to the Father, assurance of salvation, etc). Things that any prudent bible reading Christian would come in agreement with.

You're going to have to address the core issues that divide Hypergrace doctrine from actual Biblical doctrine. Hypergrace doctrine agreeing with much of our standard traditional grace beliefs doesn't make that doctrine okay'. Those areas where they are in agreement with traditional, Biblical grace teachings are used to deceive and draw weaker, less devout Christians into the poison of their movement--the belief that you can walk away from the Lord in unbelief and you are still saved. That's not going to work with God when the mark of the beast gets here and people in the church are taking the mark of the beast to avoid persecution and death thinking they are still going to be saved.

The great deception of the end times is here and Hypergrace doctrine is part of it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

you hit the nail on the head

it is the EXCLUSION of other teachings that is the biggest problem...like a subtle twisting of the word and 'did God really say that?'

that was the basis for the worst arguments in the HG threads and the reason people took sides

in fact, one of main teachers of hyper-grace, Joseph Prince in fact (in the video link above) has gone so far as to say that I John 1 was written to Gnostics so that does not apply to believers. Prince says that on page 106 of his book

that is just one small sample of how the teaching on hg is subtle and if you point it out, you get an answer that avoids the question or a volley of unrelated scripture

 

[UnderGrace]

Well of course they don't say that. What Hypergrace teaches is you CAN make grace a license to sin, and even go back to unbelief, and you will still be saved when Jesus comes back. (Brace yourself for all the denials, folks).



You're going to have to address the core issues that divide Hypergrace doctrine from actual Biblical doctrine. Hypergrace doctrine agreeing with much of our standard traditional grace beliefs doesn't make that doctrine okay'. Those areas where they are in agreement with traditional, Biblical grace teachings are used to deceive and draw weaker, less devout Christians into the poison of their movement--the belief that you can walk away from the Lord in unbelief and you are still saved. That's not going to work with God when the mark of the beast gets here and people in the church are taking the mark of the beast to avoid persecution and death thinking they are still going to be saved.

Hypergrace teaches is you CAN make grace a license to sin,

Again with this misinformation.

Well the other option is the law, are you preaching we go back under the law?

 

[BenFTW]

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

This definition is full of the misconceptions I was referring to. Often, no offense intended, the regurgitated concepts that are rooted in misunderstandings. I could address each of these points, but I don't wish to derail the purpose of this thread. I will just shortly say that repentance is still upheld, confession to God (for the right reasons), forgiveness towards others, and the Law (if used lawfully, and used for its intended purposes). All upheld.

 

[Ralph-]

Again with this misinformation.

Denial will get you no where.

I've posted quotes from Charles Stanley that instantly show the deceit of your claim of 'misinformation'.

Well the other option is the law, are you preaching we go back under the law?

Good grief, UG. Of course not.

No, the other option is not 'the law'.

 

[Ralph-]

Wake up, folks...

"Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation." "

"In a chapter entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing", he says, "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74)." A little later, Stanley also writes: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord" (p. 80)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine


He's plainly saying grace is your license to go back to unbelief. He's not telling anyone to do that (quite the opposite, I'm sure). What he's saying is you CAN and you are still saved. That's called making grace a license to sin, instead of what it actually is, your 'license' to escape sin and it's just punishment.

So no more claims of misinformation. There it is in black and white from a well known and popular grace teacher.

 

[UnderGrace]

Denial will get you no where.

I've posted quotes from Charles Stanley that instantly show the deceit of your claim of 'misinformation'.



Good grief, UG. Of course not.

No, the other option is not 'the law'.

Charles Stanley in that passage does not instruct people to go and sin.

What is the other option if not grace?

 

[Ralph-]

This crap snuck in unawares. Grace teaching slowly got changed into this perverted 'hyper-extended' thing that the Bible does not teach. But we should not be surprised that it came in unawares because that is how Jude describes it's appearance in the church even in his day:

"I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."-Jude 1:3-4

It seems to largely have come in unawares under the guise of the 'once saved always saved' teaching of these end times. It seems as long as it endorses 'once saved always saved' Christians are okay with whatever else it says. Especially when the 'whatever else' it teaches is so ear tickling and attractive to struggling Christians who have yet to experience grace for what it was given for--to teach you to say 'no' to ungodliness.

 

[Ralph-]

Charles Stanley in that passage does not instruct people to go and sin.

You never listen.

I said they don't come right out and say that. They say you CAN do that.

Start paying attention.

What is the other option if not grace?

The other option is grace according to what the Bible actually teaches about it. That's the other option.

God's grace is your 'license' to NOT sin. Quit making it into a license to not be changed by the Spirit of God!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

oh my.

Princes's book, Destined to Reign, is CHOCK full of the very things that give the term hyper to the grace of God

it is documented.

one of the other hallmarks of hg seems to be changing your answer just enough to make it sound like the hearer/reader misunderstood what was said

if anyone cares to go back and look at the old threads, its all there

hyper grace is not a better understanding of grace or anything else so much as a redefinition, subtle and at the detriment of the Old Testament and quite a bit in the New

 

[BenFTW]

Wake up, folks...

"Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation." "

"In a chapter entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing", he says, "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74)." A little later, Stanley also writes: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord" (p. 80)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine


He's plainly saying grace is your license to go back to unbelief. He's not telling anyone to do that (quite the opposite, I'm sure). What he's saying is you CAN and you are still saved. That's called making grace a license to sin, instead of what it actually is, your 'license' to escape sin and it's just punishment.

So no more claims of misinformation. There it is in black and white from a well known and popular grace teacher.

I personally don't even know who Charles Stanley is, and most people that think about hyper-grace think about people like Joseph Prince, Paul Ellis, or... forgot his name. Either way, that isn't a central teaching of hyper-grace, but a teaching or belief of Charles Stanley (in particular). I've heard grace teachers agree with the idea of a person who goes out sinning all they want as either not understanding the grace of God that sets free (its even in the article I linked) or they aren't an actual believer. God's grace isn't a license to sin, and as even the article I linked reads, from such teachings run.

 

[UnderGrace]

You never listen.

I said they don't come right out and say that. They say you CAN do that.

Start paying attention.

LOL.......... I only pay attention to teachers who preach according to scripture we are "under grace not the law"