An Appeal: Lift the ban on Hyper-Grace

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
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#1
I want to start this appeal off by thanking the moderators for their work, their time, and patience throughout the years. You've probably felt like you were baby-sitting children at times, especially when hyper-grace and law were the sole focus of discussion for a very long period of time. The reason I bring this appeal to the moderators of CC is that the ban on hyper-grace wasn't (and isn't) so much about the doctrines of hyper-grace, but the conduct of its participants in its discussion. I would argue that many of the people in its discussion at that time either have been banned or moved on since then, and some have stayed (such as myself). The ban was on the conduct surrounding its discussion, not the topic itself truly. The reason the topic was banned wasn't due to its content, again, but the content of our character.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/

CS1 (moderator at CC) said, "Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed." As we clearly see, the concern wasn't so much for the belief systems of hyper-grace, or law, but conduct.

I find that the ban is outdated and old, hence why I marked it as such awhile back. It also hinders discussions on topics that could be beneficial, such as justification and knowing our standing before God based upon the work of Christ. No condemnation as a result of Christ as our High Priest, and the blood of Christ. These are so called "doctrines of hyper-grace" but truly, they are truths found in God's Word. With a ban on the subject, that really isn't enforced (we've all seen threads on the topic), its just a superficial ban, just there as a scar bringing up the past.

The appeal is to un-sticky the hyper-grace ban, and to remove the ban all together. It served its purpose in quieting down the vitriol and back and forth of users at the time, some of those users having been banned or moved on since. Its just been there permanently, when in fact it really was there to serve a temporal purpose. That purpose was achieved and now only serves to hinder discussion on what could lead to interesting, uplifting, and edifying topics revolved around Jesus.

Thank you, moderators, for considering my appeal and for taking the time to read all of what has been written. I appreciate all of your efforts to keep the site running smoothly and appropriately, upholding our Christian witness and honoring God with our actions.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,152
113
#2
why can't people just discuss the grace of God without going hyper?

no I'm not a mod, but why not write a mod rather than put this in the Bible discussion forum?

personally, I opted out of those discussion before the ban was created

how do you quantify that ban with any discussion on any attributes of God?

I certainly hope they do not lift 'the ban'

there is optimal room here to discuss anything without going hyper on it

It also hinders discussions on topics that could be beneficial, such as justification and knowing our standing before God based upon the work of Christ.
how's that? are we going to discuss hyper justification and maybe hyper standing before God?

and possibly the hyper work of Christ?

seriously? it came to the point that almost nothing could be discussed without some referral to hyper grace...pretty sure that was the reason for the ban and no doubt the same will occur

I see no reason to label God's grace with a hyper but I do see where a misapplication of grace would and has, spilled over into understanding NT scripture...such as stating we don't really have to apply Jesus' teaching because He was under the law and we don't have to forgive people because we are already forgiven or the Lord's prayer is obsolete

all of those things were posted by so called 'hyper-gracers' in this forum and that goes far past a simple ban on hyper grace

not to mention the flooding of the forum with videos and many many copy/pastes

some discussion :rolleyes:

I guess you were hoping for a discussion on it since you stuck this in the BDF
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#3
why can't people just discuss the grace of God without going hyper?

no I'm not a mod, but why not write a mod rather than put this in the Bible discussion forum?

personally, I opted out of those discussion before the ban was created

how do you quantify that ban with any discussion on any attributes of God?

I certainly hope they do not lift 'the ban'

there is optimal room here to discuss anything without going hyper on it



how's that? are we going to discuss hyper justification and maybe hyper standing before God?

and possibly the hyper work of Christ?

seriously? it came to the point that almost nothing could be discussed without some referral to hyper grace...pretty sure that was the reason for the ban and no doubt the same will occur

I see no reason to label God's grace with a hyper but I do see where a misapplication of grace would and has, spilled over into understanding NT scripture...such as stating we don't really have to apply Jesus' teaching because He was under the law and we don't have to forgive people because we are already forgiven or the Lord's prayer is obsolete

all of those things were posted by so called 'hyper-gracers' in this forum and that goes far past a simple ban on hyper grace

not to mention the flooding of the forum with videos and many many copy/pastes

some discussion :rolleyes:

I guess you were hoping for a discussion on it since you stuck this in the BDF
Hey 7seasrekeyed. I noticed that there was somewhat of a split on the ban (looking at the positive and negative reactions) and if a good portion of the user base wants to be able to discuss a topic (39%, of those voting), I find it unreasonable to ban them for discussing it. Obviously a level of maturity is called for in its discussion, but if we're being honest here, OSAS is pervading topics now to the degree hyper-grace was then. I don't see a ban on OSAS because it is a central topic of discussion that people feel needs to be addressed.

Likewise, there are certain aspects of what people deem "hyper-grace" that really aren't particular to hyper-grace but God's word, and that should be shown with verses. It isn't a matter of adding hyper to anything, as that was a tool used by people in ignorance to what was really being taught, to vilify a teaching. It was done in ignorance, in fact where this whole discussion originated, the author, actually ended up discussing with a prominent "grace teacher" and realized they actually agreed a lot and misunderstood one another in certain areas. They saw the division their disagreement had on the Body of Christ, and they sought to mend it. To unify the people.

I appreciate your input though, and yes, people should feel free to chime in. I do see some misunderstandings in what you say hyper-grace people taught though, and that's where a lot of this whole hyper-grace shenanigans began. Maybe if the ban is lifted that misunderstanding can be resolved.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,152
113
#4
Hey 7seasrekeyed. I noticed that there was somewhat of a split on the ban (looking at the positive and negative reactions) and if a good portion of the user base wants to be able to discuss a topic (39%, of those voting), I find it unreasonable to ban them for discussing it. Obviously a level of maturity is called for in its discussion, but if we're being honest here, OSAS is pervading topics now to the degree hyper-grace was then. I don't see a ban on OSAS because it is a central topic of discussion that people feel needs to be addressed.

Likewise, there are certain aspects of what people deem "hyper-grace" that really aren't particular to hyper-grace but God's word, and that should be shown with verses. It isn't a matter of adding hyper to anything, as that was a tool used by people in ignorance to what was really being taught, to vilify a teaching. It was done in ignorance, in fact where this whole discussion originated, the author, actually ended up discussing with a prominent "grace teacher" and realized they actually agreed a lot and misunderstood one another in certain areas. They saw the division their disagreement had on the Body of Christ, and they sought to mend it. To unify the people.

I appreciate your input though, and yes, people should feel free to chime in. I do see some misunderstandings in what you say hyper-grace people taught though, and that's where a lot of this whole hyper-grace shenanigans began. Maybe if the ban is lifted that misunderstanding can be resolved.

we have very different recollections of the events
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#5
we have very different recollections of the events
Possibly, but even so, its in the past. Many people have moved on (either by force or time, lol). I am not making an appeal so every thread can be hyper-grace again, but I just find the ban, top of the page, to be outdated (back in 2016!). CS1 intended to calm things down (it worked), and its been so long that new members and people see it, and for what? It does nothing, but give anyone who even partly agrees with doctrines that may fall under "hyper-grace" apprehension from sharing. It makes this open platform caged. It seems so unnecessary.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,955
2,754
113
#6
The reason the topic was banned wasn't due to its content, again, but the content of our character.
Not exactly. Joaniemarie was posting this false doctrine of Hyper Grace on a weekly basis, and just creating issues for nothing. Removing the ban would bring a whole flood of false teachings which are not really edifying.
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
300
431
63
#7
God's grace is hyper , and never ending right now in the age of Grace , really dont understand the opposition to it at all !!!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,418
6,822
113
64
Florida
#8
I want to start this appeal off by thanking the moderators for their work, their time, and patience throughout the years. You've probably felt like you were baby-sitting children at times, especially when hyper-grace and law were the sole focus of discussion for a very long period of time. The reason I bring this appeal to the moderators of CC is that the ban on hyper-grace wasn't (and isn't) so much about the doctrines of hyper-grace, but the conduct of its participants in its discussion. I would argue that many of the people in its discussion at that time either have been banned or moved on since then, and some have stayed (such as myself). The ban was on the conduct surrounding its discussion, not the topic itself truly. The reason the topic was banned wasn't due to its content, again, but the content of our character.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/

CS1 (moderator at CC) said, "Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed." As we clearly see, the concern wasn't so much for the belief systems of hyper-grace, or law, but conduct.

I find that the ban is outdated and old, hence why I marked it as such awhile back. It also hinders discussions on topics that could be beneficial, such as justification and knowing our standing before God based upon the work of Christ. No condemnation as a result of Christ as our High Priest, and the blood of Christ. These are so called "doctrines of hyper-grace" but truly, they are truths found in God's Word. With a ban on the subject, that really isn't enforced (we've all seen threads on the topic), its just a superficial ban, just there as a scar bringing up the past.

The appeal is to un-sticky the hyper-grace ban, and to remove the ban all together. It served its purpose in quieting down the vitriol and back and forth of users at the time, some of those users having been banned or moved on since. Its just been there permanently, when in fact it really was there to serve a temporal purpose. That purpose was achieved and now only serves to hinder discussion on what could lead to interesting, uplifting, and edifying topics revolved around Jesus.

Thank you, moderators, for considering my appeal and for taking the time to read all of what has been written. I appreciate all of your efforts to keep the site running smoothly and appropriately, upholding our Christian witness and honoring God with our actions.
What is the difference between the grace of God and hyper-grace? Isn't this the same thing?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,418
6,822
113
64
Florida
#9
What's the difference between hyper-grace and the grace of God. Aren't they one and the same?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#10
Not exactly. Joaniemarie was posting this false doctrine of Hyper Grace on a weekly basis, and just creating issues for nothing. Removing the ban would bring a whole flood of false teachings which are not really edifying.
You see, people say false doctrine of hyper-grace, but if it could be shown to be correct, there then is this ban. It limits discussion, on what is supposed to be an open platform. I am not sure of your understanding on hyper-grace, or the doctrines found therein, but I will tell you, many people have misconceptions about it. Now, I am not trying to defend hyper-grace, in and of itself, but rather I would present the doctrines of God's Word. People categorize teachings one way or another, for good or bad intentions, but if it can be shown to be correct it'll give someone something to ponder.

Joaniemarie, in my personal experience, has always been friendly and kind, simply sharing what she found to be helpful in her own life experience and walk with the Lord. Those teachings helped her, and her desire was to help others. She, if I recall correctly, even had permission from the site owner to post the things she was. Issues only came up when those who disagreed with her posted in her threads. Had they practiced self-control, Christian conduct, there would've been far less strife. Not to mention mischaracterizations. Things were a little wild back then, and many of the aggressors (or participants) have moved on or been banned.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#11
What is the difference between the grace of God and hyper-grace? Isn't this the same thing?
There is no difference, and any suggested difference would come from misconceptions, or preconceived ideas of what is being taught (unfortunately). The misconception would be "live like a heathen, God's grace is sufficient."
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,397
5,841
113
#12
God's grace is hyper , and never ending right now in the age of Grace , really dont understand the opposition to it at all !!!

AMEN!!
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,152
113
#13
that's because you agree with her

there was plenty of discord and nonsense in her threads

had they practiced self control? oh. I guess you were not on the receiving end of one of her 'everyone is attacking me' claims

I won't say more, but many of her posts were the most disingenuous I've seen...that and her lament to bring back the banned

honestly Ben, we know which side of the debate you were on but for those of us who were fed up with the constant copy/pastes,
being told we were slandering because we disagreed and the all other videos and rhetoric, we disagree with your proposal

I think people will remember things a little better than you seem to want to represent them

without prejudice but I find no need to say more other than to caution the mods if I might
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#14
that's because you agree with her

there was plenty of discord and nonsense in her threads

had they practiced self control? oh. I guess you were not on the receiving end of one of her 'everyone is attacking me' claims

I won't say more, but many of her posts were the most disingenuous I've seen...that and her lament to bring back the banned

honestly Ben, we know which side of the debate you were on but for those of us who were fed up with the constant copy/pastes,
being told we were slandering because we disagreed and the all other videos and rhetoric, we disagree with your proposal

I think people will remember things a little better than you seem to want to represent them

without prejudice but I find no need to say more other than to caution the mods if I might
I understand we may differ in how we viewed each of the participants at the time and [view them] now. That's fine. Across the board the moderators found both sides to be at fault (regardless if it was reactionary). I am not mispresenting anything, as I am telling it through my lens. I know that people were copy/pasting a lot, not exactly my style.

Again, this comes down to character and conduct. As for the teaching (of so called hyper-grace), I feel that it can be debated in a healthy manner, but I wouldn't even endeavor to call it "hyper-grace" as opposed to God's grace. It may be hyper, but it is still His grace.

I see no reason to revisit the past and argue over who was in the right or wrong. My only issue here is the limitation on discourse, that was really meant to be temporary (to solve a current issue then).
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#15
But ban or no ban not one person will be phased by these debates. Its an endless cycle of people set on what they believe trying to convince other people who are equally set in their beliefs, just in the opposite direction.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,177
13,593
113
#16
Grace is grace.......people coin phrases all the time to try an discredit other belief systems and or make a stance against something they disagree with.....the bible does say we are saved by grace, it also states that grace is a position that a believer is placed into, it also states that grace abounds the more where sin abounds in a believer......to me the word hyper has no bearing on Grace and what the bible has to state about it.........just sayin!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#17
But ban or no ban not one person will be phased by these debates. Its an endless cycle of people set on what they believe trying to convince other people who are equally set in their beliefs, just in the opposite direction.
True, but for those that are observing not being on one side or the other, it can allow them to make an informed decision. Some people are open-minded.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily about hyper-grace, but the principle of an open platform for Christians to discuss topics relevant to them. The ban is outdated, meant to solve a problem that was current at the time and is long past (for a number of reasons). It is limiting discourse, and giving apprehension to users to post about topics that may appeal to them.

The focus shouldn't be hyper-grace, but free discourse, without having to worry about being banned because a few people (in the past) didn't in the view of moderators behave. In essence, the majority being penalized for the minority, still to this day.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#18
True, but for those that are observing not being on one side or the other, it can allow them to make an informed decision. Some people are open-minded.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily about hyper-grace, but the principle of an open platform for Christians to discuss topics relevant to them. The ban is outdated, meant to solve a problem that was current at the time and is long past (for a number of reasons). It is limiting discourse, and giving apprehension to users to post about topics that may appeal to them.

The focus shouldn't be hyper-grace, but free discourse, without having to worry about being banned because a few people (in the past) didn't in the view of moderators behave. In essence, the majority being penalized for the minority, still to this day.
I get your point. You said it about three times in your first OP alone. But mostly, from what I observed over the years, people either join in the melee or run screaming in terror.
True, some may learn something, but it's a pretty small group and they usually give up eventually.
And I say that as one that actually did learn some things when I first joined the forums.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
534
113
#19
Grace is grace.......people coin phrases all the time to try an discredit other belief systems and or make a stance against something they disagree with.....the bible does say we are saved by grace, it also states that grace is a position that a believer is placed into, it also states that grace abounds the more where sin abounds in a believer......to me the word hyper has no bearing on Grace and what the bible has to state about it.........just sayin!
Hyper-grace is the idea that all sins are forgiven and we never have to confess our transgressions as Christians after redemption and regeneration.
I personally feel that Christians should be able to discuss anything that arrives within the body of the church. We have God. What is there to fear on the mortal worldly plain that would make us mute ourselves?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,177
13,593
113
#20
Hyper-grace is the idea that all sins are forgiven and we never have to confess our transgressions as Christians after redemption and regeneration.
I personally feel that Christians should be able to discuss anything that arrives within the body of the church. We have God. What is there to fear on the mortal worldly plain that would make us mute ourselves?
It is finished = paid in full.....the only sin not forgiven in Christ is unbelief into the finished work of Christ on the cross......Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more.....God chastens his children, he does not dangle their sin above their heads and cast them away...nor does he require his Son to be nailed to the cross again!