And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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Punishment is a singular noun not an adjective. An adjective would be “punishing” and if that were in Matthew 25:46 it would describe the eternal state of the unrighteous. However, punishment being a singular noun, it doesn’t imply a continual state of punishment that’s ongoing. Punishment is one thing and the Bible repeatedly says the unrighteous are destroyed or put to death, not tormented eternally.
Eternal punishment is death. They lose their immortality as the Bible repeatedly says.
Eternal punishment is death. They lose their immortality as the Bible repeatedly says.
Of course it is figurative. We don't know what it looks like exactly. The fire, the worms, the smoke, they are all other worldly. The bodies that the wicked are raised with that are cast into the Lake of Fire are other worldly. There is every reason to think they can suffer forever without "burning up" and every reason to think that the worms of their torment can gnaw at them forever, they are not physical bodies in the earthly sense.
sorry I am not able to only replay part of your post do to my old computer not work good
but your question is sodom still burning
no
but hell burn forever
so the analogy use hell doesn’t mean exact happen to hell
analogy only to clarifying some thing or explain not to prove anything
if you want to know what analogy do, read this link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...vidence.html&usg=AOvVaw1X9BZcH2YwF8bi6zD2cTBs
one day Jesus use analogy to explain about kingdom
farmer spread the seed
farmer is preacher
seed is the word
to make people, may be some that hear are farmer so they have idea what going on
not to prove that word is seed
but your question is sodom still burning
no
but hell burn forever
so the analogy use hell doesn’t mean exact happen to hell
analogy only to clarifying some thing or explain not to prove anything
if you want to know what analogy do, read this link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...vidence.html&usg=AOvVaw1X9BZcH2YwF8bi6zD2cTBs
one day Jesus use analogy to explain about kingdom
farmer spread the seed
farmer is preacher
seed is the word
to make people, may be some that hear are farmer so they have idea what going on
not to prove that word is seed
this from oxford dictionary online
the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
"crime demands just punishment
infliction mean the action that make pain
So eternal punishment mean to make eternal pain
how you impose punishment to death soul
you can not make death soul pain anymore
remember the word eternal mean never ending
the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
"crime demands just punishment
infliction mean the action that make pain
So eternal punishment mean to make eternal pain
how you impose punishment to death soul
you can not make death soul pain anymore
remember the word eternal mean never ending
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You are needing to constantly attempt to say things that don't make sense in order to support your ideas that contradict the plain meaning of the scriptures. You should be aware that we are all noticing that. When you have to do that over and over again for various scriptures it is a sign that of a false teaching or even a cult.
Punishment requires someone to be on the receiving end of the punishment. Punishment requires that someone have feeling of being punished. It is impossible in Greek or English to call something eternal punishment that does not involved a person feeling the effects of the punishment eternally.
You are trying to define eternal punishment to mean eternal consequences or something similar in your adlib logic but you don't have the authority to do so and no one will agree with your attempt to change the definition of words. You will have to work with Websters or Oxford or Merriam on that but until then, punishment still means that someone is feeling the punishment for it to be punishment.
Eternal punishment requires the subjects of the punishment to know that they are being punished. And even why.
Punishment requires someone to be on the receiving end of the punishment. Punishment requires that someone have feeling of being punished. It is impossible in Greek or English to call something eternal punishment that does not involved a person feeling the effects of the punishment eternally.
You are trying to define eternal punishment to mean eternal consequences or something similar in your adlib logic but you don't have the authority to do so and no one will agree with your attempt to change the definition of words. You will have to work with Websters or Oxford or Merriam on that but until then, punishment still means that someone is feeling the punishment for it to be punishment.
Eternal punishment requires the subjects of the punishment to know that they are being punished. And even why.
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Yes it requires that the subject being punished be alive to know about it. No one ever says we are punishing the dead criminal by not mowing his grave. That would be nonsense. We are not punishing him, if he is not aware of it. We might be disrespecting his memory or insulting his grave, but we are not punishing him.
In the biblical context of eternal punishment it would require that they be aware of it in that spiritual realm. There is no such thing as eternal punishment with no one there to receive the punishment. If they are not existing it might be possible to call that eternal consequences but it can't be called eternal punishment.
To insist on calling their death eternal punishment is either 1) extreme ignorance of English word usage or 2) willful belligerent, obnoxious forcing of definitions that violate the English and announce to everyone that you are intellectually dishonest and childish willing to dig in your heels when you should be conceding that punishment is not what you can do to dead people.
In the biblical context of eternal punishment it would require that they be aware of it in that spiritual realm. There is no such thing as eternal punishment with no one there to receive the punishment. If they are not existing it might be possible to call that eternal consequences but it can't be called eternal punishment.
To insist on calling their death eternal punishment is either 1) extreme ignorance of English word usage or 2) willful belligerent, obnoxious forcing of definitions that violate the English and announce to everyone that you are intellectually dishonest and childish willing to dig in your heels when you should be conceding that punishment is not what you can do to dead people.
You say that you can punish dead people. The entire rest of the English speaking world says that you can't punish dead people.
If they are dead and unawares you can't do anything to them that would be called punishing them.
If they were executed for a crime that would be their punishment and it would end there. No one ever said they are punished forever because they were executed. They are dead forever yes. But they are not punished forever. That is not proper English. And if you told your students that it was you should have been fired.
The only way that they could be punished forever is spiritual judgment from God whereby they are aware of it forever. And that is a real thing.
If they are dead and unawares you can't do anything to them that would be called punishing them.
If they were executed for a crime that would be their punishment and it would end there. No one ever said they are punished forever because they were executed. They are dead forever yes. But they are not punished forever. That is not proper English. And if you told your students that it was you should have been fired.
The only way that they could be punished forever is spiritual judgment from God whereby they are aware of it forever. And that is a real thing.
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Thread's getting tiring. I'm going to start ignoring this after this response. But...
My "assumption" was based on actual words. So definitionally it's not an assumption.
I don't know who's in Hell now. Do you know who died and burned up once and now is no more? I would however say that that rich man Jesus spoke about, the one who was thoroughly insensitive to the needs of a disabled man, was not consumed by fire, but was in perpetual torment. A thousand years after the great tribulation, the devil will be again released and, after his glorious butt-kicking, will go to join the beast -- who will apparently still be there experiencing barbecue from the perspective of a chicken leg.
I'm done with the this and the stupid snarkiness it has brought out of some people.
My "assumption" was based on actual words. So definitionally it's not an assumption.
I don't know who's in Hell now. Do you know who died and burned up once and now is no more? I would however say that that rich man Jesus spoke about, the one who was thoroughly insensitive to the needs of a disabled man, was not consumed by fire, but was in perpetual torment. A thousand years after the great tribulation, the devil will be again released and, after his glorious butt-kicking, will go to join the beast -- who will apparently still be there experiencing barbecue from the perspective of a chicken leg.
I'm done with the this and the stupid snarkiness it has brought out of some people.
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You’re right this thread is getting tiring. At this point in the thread we have people arguing that death doesn’t mean death, destroy doesn’t mean destroy, and people get eternal life in hell, it’s just such a spectacle to watch people changing word definitions.
I’m not changing my mind, they’re not changing their mind, maybe I should do what you’re doing and move on to more fertile soil.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, though, but it doesn’t say the rich man was there forever. It also says the rich man went to torment for receiving good things in life. I’m pretty sure people aren’t tormented for having good things in life or most of us are in big trouble.
I’m not changing my mind, they’re not changing their mind, maybe I should do what you’re doing and move on to more fertile soil.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, though, but it doesn’t say the rich man was there forever. It also says the rich man went to torment for receiving good things in life. I’m pretty sure people aren’t tormented for having good things in life or most of us are in big trouble.
Again, punishment is a singular noun. Torment is mental or physical anguish, weeping, wailing, burning, worms eating you, etc so that is more than one punishment. You’re saying those in hell have punishments - plural. That’s false.
It’s Biblically and grammatically impossible for Matthew 25:45 to say what you want it to say because words have meaning and the Bible doesn’t contradict itself.
Your response was unrelated and an attempt to put words in my mouth by saying I think dead people can be punished, something I never said. So your pretense is false and your conclusion is false.
It’s Biblically and grammatically impossible for Matthew 25:45 to say what you want it to say because words have meaning and the Bible doesn’t contradict itself.
Your response was unrelated and an attempt to put words in my mouth by saying I think dead people can be punished, something I never said. So your pretense is false and your conclusion is false.