ANIMAL SACRIFICES to resume FOR US in the future!

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Depleted

Guest
#41
Hello Lynn,

Yikes!

I think we're off to a bad start here...

I'm just trying to invite you to a friendly conversation.

If you disagree, then great! Share with me what you know, so I can learn from you.

But can we be a little more gentle to start?

Maybe something like: "Hello BibleGuy, I'd like to share with you my opinion, and the evidence which I believe supports it."

Instead, you charge in with "you have no clue..." and even if that's true, it's not very gentle.

If you really hope to help me learn from you, then try being a little more friendly....

I'm trying to be friendly to you too....

thank you....
Let's try it this way. You started this by preaching what you wanted and expected us to agree. Let me try preaching what I want, and then see how you react to it.

My preaching:
All teddy bears are sentient. They live, breath and have their being.

They also have their own creators, who are not God, but people. Now, because of this, it goes back to when people first started at the inception of the teddy bear. There are three different stories of who made the first teddy bears, so teddy bears chose their own creators.

German teddy bears pick Margarete Steiff. She first started making stuffed bears back in the 19th century.

American stuffed bears believe the Creator is the Michtoms -- Rose and Morris.

And the Brits are a funny lot. They believe the first bear was connected to King Edward VIII, because a salesperson came to the door and asked the maid, if anyone wanted a "teddy bare." She got snippy and said, "We prefer our Teddy dressed."

So obviously, there is disagreement among teddy bears on who the creator was, but mostly because teddy bears like to argue about this, because they are real.

End of preaching.

So, would you like to discuss this is a nice respectful way? Or would you prefer saying the obvious, "You are clueless?"

Seems to me "clueless" works a lot faster and cuts to the chase, rather than argue over the obvious.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#42
Hello Angela,

Nice to meet you.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Thank you for sharing Scripture too. And I agree with every Scripture you cited.

I agree with every Scripture in ALL the Bible.

That's why I also agree with the prophets which guarantee restoration of future animal sacrifices.

You gave us no reason to disagree with the yet-unfulfilled-prophecies of the prophets.

So, you haven't really justified your position against mine.

And, am I a "Hebrew Roots" person? Answer: I am a BIBLEGUY! I go with the Bible.

Moreover, let's be nice...and stop accusing of me of things you don't even know. I've read the New Testament MANY times. And I've thoroughly documented my position in hundreds of pages of text consistent with BOTH testaments. So it's quite silly of you to suppose I "forgot to read the New Testament".

Hmmm....you're not showing signs of being a genuine truth-seeker. Please be careful...for your own sake.

I know it's stressful when people challenge you! But that's ok. It's part of the growth process. Let's take a deep breath and settle down and focus on the evidence at hand.

Now, I AGREE Jesus' sacrifice is the ultimate sacrifice. So stop implying my position entails that Jesus' sacrifice was for naught.

And:

1. Paul condoned sacrificial activity AFTER his conversion (Ac. 21).
2. Jesus condoned sacrificial activity during his ministry, and His teachings APPLY to ALL DISCIPLES (Mt. 28:20)
3. Thousands of 1st-century disciples had NO PROBLEM participating in sacrificial activity (Ac. 21)
4. MANY disciples were sacrifice-performing priests even AFTER the resurrection (Ac. 6).

So, it's clear that YOU have a problem with the idea of ongoing animal sacrifices.

But Scripture is OK with it.

In fact, Heb. 8:13 confirms that the Old Covenant is READY to pass away (implying it had not yet passed away as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of the book of Hebrews.)

Therefore, your claim that we changed from Old Covenant to New Covenant is incorrect. Rather, BOTH covenants now function simultaneously, and neither is presently terminated (as I've shown).

You wrote: "The Church is the New Covenant."

My response: ??? The "church" is a people-group. The New Covenant is an agreement between God and ISRAEL (Jer. 31).

Let's be careful in our thinking.

You wrote: "...
it is NOT God’s plan to sacrifice animals
"

My response: So God was just joking in Zec. 14 and Eze. 40-47 and Dt. 30:1-8 and Jer. 33 and Mal. 3 regarding the animal sacrifices to occur in that future time?

Of course not! Please adjust your position to be consistent with Scripture.

You wrote: "
I hope he will stay around and read the posts and find Jesus
"

My response: Are you writing to me? Or to someone else?

And, I hope you learn that Jesus comes to rebuild the temple (Zec. 6:12-13) which should be a house of prayer for all nations (Mk. 11:17) in which offerings and sacrifices on the altar are acceptable (Is. 56:7) when Jesus RESTORES the sacrifice-performing duties of the ongoing covenant with Levi (Mal. 3:1-4).

You wrote: "
There is no need for sacrifices ever."

My response: Please take the time to look up the Scriptures I've cited which disconfirm your claim.

Ok...hope to hear from you.

blessings....
Hi Bibleguy...I just want to ask , why will animal sacrifices be needed when Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice , I am asking this as I truly am interested , for what purpose will these animals be sacrificed for ...xox...
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#43
Ezekiel 20:21 ..the children rebelled against me,”
“They polluted [MY sabbaths].…”

He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).
“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”

“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered…with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],

and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).
“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,

SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.…
And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress
against me… and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).

43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake,
not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel,
saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel 36

21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned
among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,

Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but
for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.

28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:

and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye
shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts;
so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#44
Since NONE of the animal sacrifices pre Christ EVER removed a SINGLE sin, but was instead intended to be a model of the ONLY Sacrifice that could take away sin, why is it so outlandish to believe that millennial animal sacrifices are performed to COMMEMORATE the ONLY Sacrifice that takes away sin?
Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying millenialists still sacrifice animals? Why?

Granted, more than one animal was sacrificed for me, but I like meat, so that's going to happen. Why are millenialists sacrificing them still? And, do their parents know?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#45
There would be no need for Sacrifices to remind people that sin causes death or of Christs sacrifice. According to belief people will still die during the Millennium so death will be very obvious. In any case at the end of the Millennium there is a last big rebellion against God so any sacrifices seem to be a waste of time.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,157
783
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#46
Zech 14:14-15 is pre millennial kingdom. It tells of the last battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation. Blood will fill the valley to the horses bridal. Yep they will use great numbers of horses in the battle and not the machines of modern war.

Don't get your theology all mixed up. There will be yet a third temple as yet unbuilt. Lots of great and mighty works the Lord will perform.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#47
There is no "future" redeemed Israel:
But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there;
and have chosen David to be over my people Israel. 2 Chronicles 6:6

As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured:
so will I multiply the seed of [David my servant], and [the Levites that minister unto me].

20Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant
of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;.....

Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any
of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their
captivity to return, and have mercy on them. (Jeremiah 33:20-26)


And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd:
they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. Ezekiel 37:24

Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee to set thee on his throne,
to be king for the Lord thy God: (2 Chronicles 9:8)

because thy God loved Israel, to establish them for ever,
therefore made he thee king over them, to do judgment and justice.-
-

5 Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over
Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?
-

Hosea 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God,
and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness [in the latter days].
-

And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your
fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their
children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
-

In 2 Samuel 23:1, 5, we find: “Now these be the last words of David.
God hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure.…”

-
In other words, a covenant that shall endure forever and cannot fail!
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#48
You stick with your Herbert Armstrong doctrine prove-all - I see no point in addressing your points.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#49


I bet you were typing that all out before I first clicked this thread, and doing the research to quote this scripture, in at least half an hour. (Possibly longer.) Meanwhile, I come in and respond in a whopping 1-2 minutes.


No, Lynn! Certainly not more than 20 minutes. I copy, paste and reformat fast! Even on my iPad, although the computer is much easier and better, because I keep getting the CC page reloaded and losing what I was writing, when I go to look up verses! Then I have to press the button that puts back what I wrote, twice!


Anyway, my concern is that Bibleguy has pretty much answered everyone but me. After all the time I put in??;)

So, he must have me on ignore. I guess my posts are too convicting and blast his nonsense to shreds. But then, everyone else does too! It isn't hard to blast this utter nonsense to shreds, is it? You don't even have to use Greek or Hebrew to prove just how wrong he is. So, here is a wrap up, again!

No temple, no sacrifices ever! Not needed, Jesus death on the cross paid "once for all" for our sins.

Again, but shorter!


"For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" Hebrews 10:4

"By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ o
nce for all".Hebrews 10:10

"Now where there is forgiveness of these(sins), there is no longer any offering for sin." Hebrews 10:18

The New Covenant means we do not need animal sacrifices. And even if some fanatical people start sacrificing animals here is what the Word of God says, about those people and those sacrifices.

"
When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second." Hebrews 10:8-9
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,799
88
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#50
Don't get your theology all mixed up. There will be yet a third temple as yet unbuilt. Lots of great and mighty works the Lord will perform.
There is no third temple, the only temple is the body of Christ of which all believers in Christ are part of.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#51
I see no point in addressing your points.
I see you still deny scriptures, and can not answer,
so you accuse others to make yourself look good.
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,799
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#52
No, Lynn! Certainly not more than 20 minutes. I copy, paste and reformat fast! Even on my iPad, although the computer is much easier and better, because I keep getting the CC page reloaded and losing what I was writing, when I go to look up verses! Then I have to press the button that puts back what I wrote, twice!


Anyway, my concern is that Bibleguy has pretty much answered everyone but me. After all the time I put in??;)

So, he must have me on ignore. I guess my posts are too convicting and blast his nonsense to shreds. But then, everyone else does too! It isn't hard to blast this utter nonsense to shreds, is it? You don't even have to use Greek or Hebrew to prove just how wrong he is. So, here is a wrap up, again!

No temple, no sacrifices ever! Not needed, Jesus death on the cross paid "once for all" for our sins.

Again, but shorter!


"For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" Hebrews 10:4

"By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ o
nce for all".Hebrews 10:10

"Now where there is forgiveness of these(sins), there is no longer any offering for sin." Hebrews 10:18

The New Covenant means we do not need animal sacrifices. And even if some fanatical people start sacrificing animals here is what the Word of God says, about those people and those sacrifices.

"
When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second." Hebrews 10:8-9
I think he did answer you somewhat Angela.

The guy has totally redefined the Greek "eggus" to fit his "theology".

Strongs

G1451 eggus eng-goos'

from a primary verb agcho (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of G43);

near (literally or figuratively, of place or time).


KJV: from , at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

-----------------------------------

Me thinks he has eggus on face...:cool:
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,157
783
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#53
There is no third temple, the only temple is the body of Christ of which all believers in Christ are part of.
You may even live long enough to see it started. Israel will have a third temple. Just because believers are the Spiritual temple does not preclude an earthly temple of Israel.

You are not ready to deal with the end of the age of us Gentiles and the restoration of Israel. Jehovah will fulfill His covenant with them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,799
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#54
I see you still deny scriptures, and can not answer,
so you accuse others to make yourself look good.
I'm not going to waste my time with an Armstrongite - been there done that.
 
May 19, 2016
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#55
This statement is sufficient justification to maintain a clear distinction between future redeemed and restored Israel and the Church. "We" is the Church, and for the Church there is no participation in what future Israel does or does not do. As to the saved nations which will surround Israel at that time, once again the Church will be distinct from those nations and will be in its eternal home -- the New Jerusalem.
Hello Nehemiah6,

Nice to meet you.

You wrote: "...
for the Church there is no participation in what future Israel does or does not do."

My response: To the contrary. Paul says that even Gentile Christians are NO LONGER EXCLUDED (thus, they are INCLUDED) in the covenants (Eph. 2:12).

The New Covenant, for example, is between GOD and ISRAEL. Thus, Gentile Christians are INCLUDED as fellow Israelites.

REMEMBER: The New Covenant is ONLY between God and ISRAEL (Jer. 31; Heb. 8). NOT between God and some other non-Israelite church of the future somewhere.

Do you participate in the New Covenant?

Then you are an Israelite! (per Jer. 31; Heb. 8).

Are you NOT an Israelite? Then you are NOT a New Covenant participant (per Jer. 31; Heb. 8).

God has a family. The family name is ISRAEL.

Welcome to the family! You are an Israelite.

I trust you are indeed in the family....but you just might not realize it yet!

regards...


 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#56

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,799
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#57
You are not ready to deal with the end of the age of us Gentiles and the restoration of Israel.
There is no restoration of Israel, the time of the Gentiles were fulfilled in the 1st century AD:

Luke 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,799
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#59
So what we have here with the futurist "theologies" is a total denial of Jesus' own words - but this is nothing new.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

John 4:22 “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

John 4:23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers..

Apparently Jesus was wrong, there is going to be worship in a third temple in Jerusalem.