Animals in Heaven

[UnoiAmarah]

But the faculty of reason, the "soul" , is clearly only applied to humans in the rest of the Bible.

Animals have the ability to reason, that isn't the meaning of 'soul'. Animals are highly intelligent creatures, so I wouldn't make lite of their ability to reason but look for another talking point that differentiates the substance of the soul relative to the spirit and the duality required for living systems.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Actually plants do breathe, just not in the same manner as mammals or fish.

Nor the same substance either, plants absorb carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.

 

[Lightskin]

Nor the same substance either, plants absorb carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.

I think it is so cool that plants exhale oxygen. God is so incredible in His design.

 

[Diakonos]

Actually plants do breathe, just not in the same manner as mammals or fish.

The literal Hebrew means "throat", indicating breathing. I don't think plant have throats....but I see what you are saying

 

[Diakonos]

Will there be kitty litter in heaven?

No

 

[posthuman]

You might find this surprising, but its possible that our soul technically resides in our blood. It depends on whether you believe that every occurrence of the word "nephesh" should mean "soul"

you are contradicting your argument:

Right because In that Genesis-creation context, nefesh indicates a "breathing creature". Plants don't breath. Humans and animals do. That's the only thing we have in common. But the faculty of reason, the "soul" , is clearly only applied to humans in the rest of the Bible.

if "the life is in the blood" means that the soul is connected to blood, then in the context of the first 9 chapters of Genesis nephesh speaks of the soul.

if "nephesh" in the context of the Genesis account merely refers to breathing then "the life is in the blood" is a reference to nothing more than oxygenation.

why is it you really don't want God to confirm that animals have personhood, cognizance & emotion?
are you afraid you will have to become a vegetarian? that isn't so. He gave Noah all creatures for food, and that is extraordinarily profound. their lives are given in order that you may live. does this remind you of something? another example of a life laid down in order that others may have life? something sacred, perhaps?

or maybe this word to Noah is really fairly meaningless. maybe it has no deeper meaning than yeah btw you can have not only chocolate milkshakes but also now strawberry.

 

[tourist]

yes; i don't look forward to being reunited with a copy of my grandmother.
my actual grandmother.
did Christ come to save my actual grandmother or to destroy her and create a new similar grandmother to dwell with Him?

Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; ​

Thy judgments are a great deep: ​

O LORD, Thou preservest man and beast!​

(Psalm 36:6)​

​

"preservation" is conceptually very different from disposal and substitution. this is a fundamental error in JW theology

Maybe God is not capable of restoring your actual grandmother but will provide a reasonable facsimile. Provide a reasonable facsimile of you and me too. There are those that claim we will not have any memory whatsoever about what happened down here on earth so in the end it won't matter. In my opinion, God blotting out our memory of loved ones, including pets like they never existed is the same as lying. Well, a reasonable facsimile to a lie anyways.

 

[Diakonos]

as previously mentioned, context.

Genesis chapters 1 & 2.

The purpose of that comment was to show that nefesh does not mean "soul" every time....to help segway into other points

 

[tourist]

Will there be kitty litter in heaven?

Yeah, but you'll have to pay for it.

 

[Diakonos]

Look at the verses i called to your attention and see if you can explain them as being written from an atheistic perspective.

Well Solomon is clearly affirming that God will "judge both the righteous and the wicked". He used the phrase "they are like beasts" to indicate that we die just like animals because we have a body, just as animals do.. We cannot escape this fate. "It is appointed for all men to die one, then comes judgement" (Somewhere in the Hebrew epistle).
This verse addresses the physical destination for all living things under the sun.

 

[watchman333]

Does anyone think there are animals in Heaven? Jesus comes back on a white horse so I think there is....

Hi Sherry, as it is written, the lion will lie down with the lamb . . .

 

[Diakonos]

The thing is, it's not irrelevant for me. I don't care about the new animals in heaven. I want the old animals.

What I meant by "Beloved" is irrelevant:
The fact that we want something or love something....doesn't affect God's plan. Our desires and preferences in this regard do not affect the outcome. God could care less about what we want. He want us to wan Him, and be satisfied with Him alone.
"The Lord is My shepherd, I shall not want". Psalm 23:1

 

[Diakonos]

the creation waits in earnest expectation to share in the glory of the redemption.

this is not speaking of the creation eagerly looking forward to being annihilated and replaced with disconnected copies of itself any more than you have some kind of hope of being extinguished so that some person who is kinda similar to you can live forever in the new heavens and the new earth.

That is because, this creation will be awakened and set free from its bondage for 1000 years (where our animals may very well remain).....and it will burn after the Millenia.
But the new earth it totally from scratch.

 

[Lightskin]

God could care less about what we want.

What Scripture supports this?

 

[Diakonos]

you ought to re-read Genesis 3.

mankind is not cursed. the earth was cursed for Adam's sake

I know that the word "curse" is not used in Genesis 3. But are you suggesting that sin isn't a curse?

 

[Diakonos]

Animals have the ability to reason, that isn't the meaning of 'soul'. Animals are highly intelligent creatures, so I wouldn't make lite of their ability to reason but look for another talking point that differentiates the substance of the soul relative to the spirit and the duality required for living systems.

So you think animals are made in the image of God?

 

[Diakonos]

you are contradicting your argument:



if "the life is in the blood" means that the soul is connected to blood, then in the context of the first 9 chapters of Genesis nephesh speaks of the soul.

if "nephesh" in the context of the Genesis account merely refers to breathing then "the life is in the blood" is a reference to nothing more than oxygenation.

why is it you really don't want God to confirm that animals have personhood, cognizance & emotion?
are you afraid you will have to become a vegetarian? that isn't so. He gave Noah all creatures for food, and that is extraordinarily profound. their lives are given in order that you may live. does this remind you of something? another example of a life laid down in order that others may have life? something sacred, perhaps?

or maybe this word to Noah is really fairly meaningless. maybe it has no deeper meaning than yeah btw you can have not only chocolate milkshakes but also now strawberry.

I don't have a preference. I don't really care. But I do know that mankind was made in the triune image of God and not animals.
So that means Animals either
-don't have a body
-don't have a spirit
-don't have a soul

I believe that the whole council of God show us that the 3rd is the case. Some have argued that "animals have a "soul", but the animal soul and the human soul are not of the same essence". I'm open to studying this conclusion, but so far I haven't been convinced.

The closest Scripture to this idea is probably Daniel chapter 4 when Nebuchadnezzar was turned into a beast because he refused to recognize
"That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes"

He stood on top of his palace and said
"Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?"
As a result, God made it so that "his soul" was made like that of beasts, and his dwelling place was with the wild donkeys. He was given grass to eat like cattle"...

Here in Daniel 4, the Aramaic word "soul" is= "the locus of a person’s thoughts (mind), volition, emotions, and knowledge of right from wrong (conscience)" Sometimes its translated "heart", but definitionally, its really the soul.

....."But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever". (Dan 4:34)
Reason(Aramaic)= "the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning".

Like I said, i am open to other conclusions. But I need Biblical, lexical evidence that outweighs what I'm aware of currently.

 

[tourist]

What I meant by "Beloved" is irrelevant:
The fact that we want something or love something....doesn't affect God's plan. Our desires and preferences in this regard do not affect the outcome. God could care less about what we want. He want us to wan Him, and be satisfied with Him alone.
"The Lord is My shepherd, I shall not want". Psalm 23:1

If God could care less about what we want then I must conclude that God is insensitive to our needs. Fortunately, this is not the case. God is very concerned about our wants and needs.

Matthew 6:30-34
Therefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things. But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Diakonos]

What Scripture supports this?

Please don't read assume as an independent statement.
I said that in the context of Him breathing out His word, His desire for us. Our desire(s) didn't alter what God gave us in the Bible.
For example. If God knew that people would love to get drunk, that would'n't change what God would say about drinking. God's Word depends on His character and desires, not ours.

In addition to this, we know that most people will end up in the Lake of Fire, even our loved ones. I could turn the question around to make my point:
"Why would God prohibit beloved family from joining us in heaven?"
Answer: because "what we love" doesn't determine God's plan.

 

[Diakonos]

If God could care less about what we want then I must conclude that God is insensitive to our needs. Fortunately, this is not the case. God is very concerned about our wants and needs.

Matthew 6:30-34
Therefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things. But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

He is concerned with our
-needs
-wants (when it is congruent with His)

But the entire category of "our wants"....God does not condone, nor is He concerned.