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The word creature does not necessarily exclude animals, either 
.
And if there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and the old earth had animals, why is it such a stretch for you to conceive that the new earth will also have animals?
And if we'll be there (from the old earth), why is it also such a stretch to conceive that animals, and yes, even our pets (from the old earth), will be there, too?
-JGIG
.And if there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and the old earth had animals, why is it such a stretch for you to conceive that the new earth will also have animals?
And if we'll be there (from the old earth), why is it also such a stretch to conceive that animals, and yes, even our pets (from the old earth), will be there, too?
-JGIG
J
we had a thread just like this a few weeks back. so anyway, what about Solomon and him communicating with animals? i think the bible says he understood them but not so much that he talked back to them but none the less does it not suggest that humans and animals may have a stronger connection than we think?
B
Psalms 49:20 says "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish."
Seems God is saying that animals don't have understanding like we do to know the ways of God, to have the salvation offered to us as God in His grace and mercy did.
Genesis 5:1-2 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
We have the blessing of being created by God in His image. No animal on earth has that or ever had it at any other time. Something about us is different. We have that ability to accept God's grace or reject it, something that no other creature on earth can. We alone on this earth can comprehend morality, good, bad, evil, good....all things which we need to reason and understand the Cross.
And the soul is our essence, the invisible which go on before us to judgement. Our soul doesn't save us but God through His mercy and blood has saved our soul. So that's part of it.
To be honest I don't worry much if animals will be in heaven because our ultimate destination isn't heaven, it's the new earth. And I do think animals will be there. Whether it's going to be our beloved pets or one of the burger's we've eaten remade, I don't know. It's not something that has anything to do with salvation or none, just an interesting thing to wonder about. Same as "did Adam and Eve have a belly button?". It's something to wonder about and talk for a minute in idle moments but in the end what's the care?
I could be totally right or totally wrong. God knows best. so Meh.
Seems God is saying that animals don't have understanding like we do to know the ways of God, to have the salvation offered to us as God in His grace and mercy did.
Genesis 5:1-2 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
We have the blessing of being created by God in His image. No animal on earth has that or ever had it at any other time. Something about us is different. We have that ability to accept God's grace or reject it, something that no other creature on earth can. We alone on this earth can comprehend morality, good, bad, evil, good....all things which we need to reason and understand the Cross.
And the soul is our essence, the invisible which go on before us to judgement. Our soul doesn't save us but God through His mercy and blood has saved our soul. So that's part of it.
To be honest I don't worry much if animals will be in heaven because our ultimate destination isn't heaven, it's the new earth. And I do think animals will be there. Whether it's going to be our beloved pets or one of the burger's we've eaten remade, I don't know. It's not something that has anything to do with salvation or none, just an interesting thing to wonder about. Same as "did Adam and Eve have a belly button?". It's something to wonder about and talk for a minute in idle moments but in the end what's the care?
I could be totally right or totally wrong. God knows best. so Meh.
I'm sorry, I should have said, being a soul. We don't have a soul, we are a living soul. It is written, Adam BECAME A LIVING SOUL.
If the soul is your consciousness, then your soul is you. It goes where you go when you are alive and when you die. It is never separated from where you are. If you are in heaven, so is it. If you are in hell, your soul is their right with you.
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
The souls the above verse is referring to, includes animals.
The word used in Revelation is soul, the same word used in 1 Corinthians.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As you should already know, the literal translation for the word, soul, in the Greek is, breath.
If you go back to Genesis, you should see that the breath used in the new testament is the same breath of life in the old and that they are connected to a living soul.
The breath of life is a living soul.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Adam was made a living soul after God breathed the breath of life into him, why would it be different for any other breathing creature?
Notice, the animals have the same breath of life that Adam received to become a living soul, like it says of the fish in Revelation.
Are you referring to the kind of "living soul" or living being that Adam became, after God breathed the breath of life in him?
As I already stated, God said the same thing about the fish of the seas in Revelation.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The same Hebrew word is use for both the living soul and the one in hell.
The living soul is not the body, but the life of the body. Note the soul is still alive in hell, but the body is dead.
First off, I didn't say the soul has a body of it's own, though it could be interpreted that way.
No, as far as I can tell, the soul uses both a physical body when alive in this world, and a spiritual body when dead or in the other world.
Let's look at the account of the rich man and Lazarus. Did the rich man that was in the flames have a spiritual body that he could see, hear, speak, and feel? If his soul was in hell, then so was he.
Truly, separating the heart and mind is a difficult thing to see. It took me a while to see it myself, because they are so closely related to the thoughts of the person. But the heart is so much more.
1Sa 2:35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
I'm not trying to belittle you by saying it this way but the word, and, separates the two, making one distinct from the other.
Even as the soul and heart are not the same, and the soul and mind, neither is the heart and mind.
Just from these examples you should be able to see that the heart and mind are indeed distinct one from the other, yet make up you to be what you are today. The heart is not the mind, the mind is not the soul, the soul is not the heart, and so on.
If you look further, one interpretation in Greek, is a man, he (every) man.
And to back that up, take a look at who God held accountable for their evil heart of unbelief when they spied out the land of Jericho. Didn't God put an age limit of 20 years and up, on who He would hold accountable?
On the contrary, it is. It is talking about when he was a child, before he knew the law.
And no, it is not talking about a Christian being alive apart from the law once. Alive means, living, not alive in Christ. He grew up being taught the law. That was the only thing he knew. Before he was old enough to understand the law he was free from it, like all children. God does not hold them accountable for their sins because they don't understand. The verse is about when he was a child, before he came to understand the law. The whole chapter is about the law and the results of knowing it.
If the soul is your consciousness, then your soul is you. It goes where you go when you are alive and when you die. It is never separated from where you are. If you are in heaven, so is it. If you are in hell, your soul is their right with you.
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
The souls the above verse is referring to, includes animals.
The word used in Revelation is soul, the same word used in 1 Corinthians.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As you should already know, the literal translation for the word, soul, in the Greek is, breath.
If you go back to Genesis, you should see that the breath used in the new testament is the same breath of life in the old and that they are connected to a living soul.
The breath of life is a living soul.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Adam was made a living soul after God breathed the breath of life into him, why would it be different for any other breathing creature?
Notice, the animals have the same breath of life that Adam received to become a living soul, like it says of the fish in Revelation.
Are you referring to the kind of "living soul" or living being that Adam became, after God breathed the breath of life in him?
As I already stated, God said the same thing about the fish of the seas in Revelation.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The same Hebrew word is use for both the living soul and the one in hell.
The living soul is not the body, but the life of the body. Note the soul is still alive in hell, but the body is dead.
First off, I didn't say the soul has a body of it's own, though it could be interpreted that way.
No, as far as I can tell, the soul uses both a physical body when alive in this world, and a spiritual body when dead or in the other world.
Let's look at the account of the rich man and Lazarus. Did the rich man that was in the flames have a spiritual body that he could see, hear, speak, and feel? If his soul was in hell, then so was he.
Truly, separating the heart and mind is a difficult thing to see. It took me a while to see it myself, because they are so closely related to the thoughts of the person. But the heart is so much more.
1Sa 2:35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
I'm not trying to belittle you by saying it this way but the word, and, separates the two, making one distinct from the other.
Even as the soul and heart are not the same, and the soul and mind, neither is the heart and mind.
Just from these examples you should be able to see that the heart and mind are indeed distinct one from the other, yet make up you to be what you are today. The heart is not the mind, the mind is not the soul, the soul is not the heart, and so on.
If you look further, one interpretation in Greek, is a man, he (every) man.
And to back that up, take a look at who God held accountable for their evil heart of unbelief when they spied out the land of Jericho. Didn't God put an age limit of 20 years and up, on who He would hold accountable?
On the contrary, it is. It is talking about when he was a child, before he knew the law.
And no, it is not talking about a Christian being alive apart from the law once. Alive means, living, not alive in Christ. He grew up being taught the law. That was the only thing he knew. Before he was old enough to understand the law he was free from it, like all children. God does not hold them accountable for their sins because they don't understand. The verse is about when he was a child, before he came to understand the law. The whole chapter is about the law and the results of knowing it.
The word creature does not necessarily exclude animals, either .
And if there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and the old earth had animals, why is it such a stretch for you to conceive that the new earth will also have animals?
And if we'll be there (from the old earth), why is it also such a stretch to conceive that animals, and yes, even our pets (from the old earth), will be there, too?
-JGIG
.And if there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and the old earth had animals, why is it such a stretch for you to conceive that the new earth will also have animals?
And if we'll be there (from the old earth), why is it also such a stretch to conceive that animals, and yes, even our pets (from the old earth), will be there, too?
-JGIG
I have no doubt about the earth........just dont see the heaven application in scripture.....
The key word is heaven..... I have no doubt about the earth........just dont see the heaven application in scripture.....
I have no doubt about the earth........just dont see the heaven application in scripture.....
Now whether or not animals 'sleep' until all things are made new or their souls are with their loved ones who are in heaven I think is a debatable point; my *opinion* is that their souls and whatever form we (created beings collectively) take when we die do go to be with God until the Final Things play out and all things are restored. I don't believe in the concept of soul sleep for humans, and God tends to be consistent, so I don't believe in it for animals, either. Again, my *opinion*.
Thanks for that clarification, dcon
.-JGIG
B
To the OP, I empathize with your struggle to come to terms with this issue. For much of my life, animals friends (pets) have been vital to my life and I do think the LORD provided them. Over the years I have grieved over many and grappled with this issue myself as I grew in the Lord. I want to be clear... I do not think anyone is less... but I do believe the issue is not really the issue, but a springboard to draw you forward in your walk... to challenge you to seek TRUTH via the scriptures, to develop discernment and strengthen your faith. Being past grappling with this conflict myself, it is no longer vital concern, I can look forward knowing there will be animals in heaven... and in my life... God granted me some pets to love and enjoy.
I really hope that God surprises us with our animals when all things are remade !
The Holy Bible says nothing regarding being reunited with pets...and almost nothing regarding reuniting with human loved ones.
In fact, what is stated is that we won't even remember our earthly life at all.
Zero.
Nor will it ever come to mind.
What matters is being with the one who created us....an infinite God...all else means absolutely nothing...
V
Not so. King David said concerning his deceased baby boy, "I will go to him (in glory) but he can't come back to me."
And Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord "the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", for God is the God of the Living, not the dead. We will see them all in glory.
We won't marry or have the same type of relationships we have in this age. But in the age to come we will be like angels and will never die, Jesus said.
And Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord "the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", for God is the God of the Living, not the dead. We will see them all in glory.
We won't marry or have the same type of relationships we have in this age. But in the age to come we will be like angels and will never die, Jesus said.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-21(NIV)
"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
“Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; and with every living creature [soul/nephesh] that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth.” (Genesis 9:9–10)
“Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures [soul/nephesh], and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” God created the great sea monsters and every living creature [soul/nephesh] that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.” (Genesis 1:20–21)
“Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures [soul/nephesh] after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so.” (Genesis 1:24)
“and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life [soul/nephesh], I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.” (Genesis 1:30)
“Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of life; and man became a living being [soul/nephesh].” (Genesis 2:7)
“Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.” (Genesis 6:17)
“But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. “Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. “Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand is the life [soul/nephesh] of every living thing, And the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of all mankind?” (Job 12:7–10)
"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
“Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; and with every living creature [soul/nephesh] that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth.” (Genesis 9:9–10)
“Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures [soul/nephesh], and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” God created the great sea monsters and every living creature [soul/nephesh] that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.” (Genesis 1:20–21)
“Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures [soul/nephesh] after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so.” (Genesis 1:24)
“and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life [soul/nephesh], I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.” (Genesis 1:30)
“Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of life; and man became a living being [soul/nephesh].” (Genesis 2:7)
“Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.” (Genesis 6:17)
“But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. “Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. “Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand is the life [soul/nephesh] of every living thing, And the breath [spirit/ ruwach] of all mankind?” (Job 12:7–10)
Your example from 2 Sam 12.23 is the very same as that found in Gen 37.35....and refers to joining his son in the grave!
God is the God of all of us....that does not mean that we will see our loved ones again in Heaven.
Being reunited with earthly loved ones is NOT what Heaven is about.
Being with God is what Heaven is about.
All else means absolutely nothing.
And we will worship God forever...Amen.
God is the God of all of us....that does not mean that we will see our loved ones again in Heaven.
Being reunited with earthly loved ones is NOT what Heaven is about.
Being with God is what Heaven is about.
All else means absolutely nothing.
And we will worship God forever...Amen.