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Yes, Jesus is the only begotten son of God, i see we all agree with that. Or were you implying that Jesus is the only son of God?
Jesus is the "only begotten son of God," but he is not the only son God has. I expect many of Gods other sons are spirits like Jesus was before he came to earth. Others may be in some life form we know nothing about. Most of the life on earth has similar features, heart, lungs, blood, eyes, liver, intestines and so forth.
Apparently God wanted mankind and animals to be similar in some respects. Gods other children may be built for the world they live in and perhaps are doing the same thing Jesus did here, being a savior of their worlds. We wont know the answer to that until later.
Jesus is the "only begotten son of God," but he is not the only son God has. I expect many of Gods other sons are spirits like Jesus was before he came to earth. Others may be in some life form we know nothing about. Most of the life on earth has similar features, heart, lungs, blood, eyes, liver, intestines and so forth.
Apparently God wanted mankind and animals to be similar in some respects. Gods other children may be built for the world they live in and perhaps are doing the same thing Jesus did here, being a savior of their worlds. We wont know the answer to that until later.
C
You won't find that in any Greek original scripture, it's a spurious addition to the Latin Vulgate.
Mat. 28:19 "Go therefore, and diciple all people, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and know that I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, Amen."
Just Trinitarians adding to the word again.
Mat. 28:19 "Go therefore, and diciple all people, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and know that I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, Amen."
Just Trinitarians adding to the word again.
Well as I've said before, you Oneness believers should get your own bibles. I'm sure that's not a problem for you, as you reject the KJV I know, - hey at least you're consistent - but it's a problem for others such as Watchmen as they believe the KJV to be the perfect Word of God and the only version to use. Perhaps you can educate your fellow Oneness believers about this, or I've just found a plain contradiction... I'm glad you are honest enough to admit that verse is Trinitarian, unlike your Oneness brethren.
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B
No one can argue for or against something which they themselves clearly do not fully understand.
God does not create nor does He desire contention.
And yet...
...it is always so evident amongst "believers"... in places such as this.
There is NO doubt where it comes from.
And yet...we continue to feed it.
J
That is absolutely true that they added that. King James was a very evil king in the first place and had his translators misinterpret deliberately also, to keep a spiritual hierarch instead of the greatest becomming the servant. He also had them add, "office of a bishop". There is NO appointment of bishop in the true texts. I call it BS. Sorry if that seems harsh but I call it for what it is. 2John 5:8 was added also, there are three that bear record in heaven, the father the word and the holy Ghost. Here is something taken from The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy by Michael Clark and George Davis. To those who don't like to read, you can watch it on youtube also.
[SIZE=-1]By 600 AD Latin was the only language allowed for scripture. The scriptures were thus subject to Papal interpretation and were most certainly altered to suit the church’s ecclesiastical paradigm. This explains the hatred for the Hebrew and Greek texts, since the original texts exposed their façade.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Albert Gilmore explains,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]How did the Greek word Ekklesia, meaning a called out assembly, come to be translated church, a word that is neither Greek or English but is of doubtful Latin or perhaps Scottish origin and implies temple worship? Some believe it to be of pagan origin. Regardless, what is a word that is neither Greek nor English doing in a Greek to English translation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Why did the Greek words "presbytery (the elderly), apostle (envoy or sent one), and deacon (servant) remain untranslated into their Anglicized form? Why was the Greek word presbuteros (older or elderly) translated priest? Why indeed! There is little doubt that these words remained untranslated so the clergy could redefine them, interpreting them with the strongest institutional and hierarchical connotations. Was this mere ignorance, or a means of creating a ruling class of super saints? It is clear to us that down through the years the scriptures have been subjected to papal tampering. There even remains evidence that some of the early manuscripts were altered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In the third century, the wound worsened by the full marriage of this apostate church to paganism. This new "Christianity" became the imperial religion of the Roman Empire. It was there at Constantinople that the very first Christian temples were constructed. They were merely christianized pagan temples. The priesthood was fashioned after a mixture of the Old Testament and pagan priesthoods. Finally, Rome had done it. If they could not add Christ to the pantheon, they would bring the pantheon to Christianity. The Romans had long since tried to further unite their empire by uniting all its gods in one temple, the pantheon. There the worship of the Son was mixed with the worship of the sun, so much so that a third century mosaic from a tomb found under Saint Peter’s in Rome depicted Christ as the sun god in his chariot. It was not until the fifth century that the worshipers in Rome stopped bowing to the sun before entering Saint Peter's basilica.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]After Tyndale was martyred for his efforts, and all but two of his Bibles destroyed, several important events occurred. First, Henry VIII evicted the Catholic Church from England because the Pope refused to annul his marriage with Catherine of Aragon and sanction his illicit relationship with Anne Boleyn. The break with Rome came in 1534, when Parliament passed the Supremacy Act, making Henry head of the Church of England. Henry was somewhat sympathetic to Luther's views, which opened England as never before to Protestant influences, including translating, printing and importing Protestant Bibles. Some men, such as Coverdale, were inspired to continue in the spirit of Tyndale's work. There was also the Geneva Bible, which effected great changes throughout Europe. In the tradition of Tyndale, these Bibles no longer promoted the divine right of kings and ruling bishops, but instead recognized the priesthood of all believers. To kings and bishops who exercised absolute authority over the masses, this was intolerable. More than anything else, this set the stage for the translation of a new Bible. The king's new Bible was translated to solidify the station of both king and bishops, preserving and advancing a system of Church government that stood in antithesis to Christ's example and teachings and continues to do so until this very day.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]We believe in the inspiration and accuracy of the koine Greek texts of the New Testament. However the translations that have followed are not as reliable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is ecclesiastical ambition. Historically, this love letter from God that we call the Bible was shaped into a scepter of power in the hands of popes, kings and would-be kings to further consolidate their power over the masses. Undoubtedly this very ambition has tainted the translations from Jerome onward. This reached new heights at a time when bishops sought the approval of kings to authorize translations that had been purposefully skewed toward their ecclesiastical paradigm.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]It is ludicrous to many that the Protestant Church could be guilty of carrying on any of the traditions of the Catholic Church that it so loudly objected to. To some, the idea of an ongoing conspiracy is even more unbelievable, because they already possess the unadulterated truth. They hold it in their hands, professing that it is the ultimate authority, the only true Bible, the authorized Bible, the King James Bible. Authorized by whom? No less than King James himself! King James did his part in preserving the conspiracy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]An understanding of the political climate of the early 16th century is crucial if we are to comprehend the motives and logic behind the king's new translation. King James was a staunch advocate of the divine right of kings, as facilitated by puppet bishops. This was the Anglican answer to papal succession, in which active resistance to pope or king was considered a sin worthy of eternal ****ation. In his Basilicon Doron, in the second sonnet entitled "THE ARGUMENT OF THE BOOK" (written to his son), we catch a glimpse of James' exaggerated appraisal of kingship.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Chapter 1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The King’s New Bible[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] History is brimming with men whose hearts were forged in times of religious tyranny. The abuses increased until someone came forth with God’s cry for freedom. Men like Peter Waldo, John Wycliffe, John Hus, Savonarola, Martin Luther, Huldreich Zwingli, and John Calvin, to name a few. Some of these gave their very lives for that declaration. These were men crying for reformation. The word reformation implies that the church to be reformed was deformed or malformed. What was in need of reformation? What was wrong? Some things seemed obvious, but average people had no way of proving or disproving their suspicions. If they did speak up their lives would be endangered by the very institution that claimed to speak for the God of love. The terror that plagued the hearts and minds at the very mention of the word heretic kept them silent, for the end of everyone who was given the title was the same--burning at the stake.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]There was one that would not keep silent. His keen mind had been honed in the finest schools of 15th century England. William Tyndale was a graduate of Oxford and Cambridge, a Greek scholar. He was a man moved by compassion for the plight of the people of England. He despised the tyranny of the papal Church, showing his contempt by referring to its priesthood as scribes and Pharisees.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]There was one that would not keep silent. His keen mind had been honed in the finest schools of 15th century England. William Tyndale was a graduate of Oxford and Cambridge, a Greek scholar. He was a man moved by compassion for the plight of the people of England. He despised the tyranny of the papal Church, showing his contempt by referring to its priesthood as scribes and Pharisees.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"Moreover, because the kingdom of heaven, which is the scripture and word of God, may be so locked up, that he which readeth or heareth it, cannot understand it: as Christ testifieth how the Scribes and the Pharisees had so shut it up (Matt 23) and had taken away the key of knowledge (Luke 11) that their Jews which thought themselves within, were yet so locked out, and are to this day that they can understand no sentence of the scripture unto salvation, though they can rehearse the texts everywhere and dispute thereof as subtly as the popish doctors of dunce's dark learning, which with their sophistry, served us, as the Pharisees did the Jews…" (Tyndale’s New Testament, preface 1534)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Furthermore, he accused them of altering the scriptures to suit their own purpose.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"I thought it my duty (most dear reader) to warn thee before and to show thee the right way in, and to give thee the true key to open it withal, and to arm thee against false prophets and malicious hypocrites whose perpetual study is to leavn the scripture with glosses, and there to lock it up where it should save thy soul, and to make us shoot at a wrong mark, to put our trust in those things that profit their bellies only and slay our souls."(Ibid, Preface)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Later George Fox wrote:[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"Master Tyndale considered this only, or most chiefly, to be the cause of all mischief in the Church, that the Scriptures of God were hidden from the people's eyes; for so long the abominable doings and idolatries maintained by the pharisaical clergy could not be espied; and therefore all their labor was with might and main to keep it down, so that either it should not be read at all, or if it were, they would darken the right sense with the mist of their sophistry, and so entangle those who rebuked or despised their abominations; wresting the Scripture unto their own purpose, contrary unto the meaning of the text, they would so delude the unlearned lay people, that though thou felt in thy heart, and wert sure that all were false that they said, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles." Foxe, pp. 141-142.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Tyndale's assessment of the problem was that the scriptures were hidden from the eyes of the people. As a result, the people could not solve the priest’s subtle riddles. The clergy covered up their abominations and idolatries by hiding the scriptures from the people's eyes and darkening the right sense of the scriptures by their fallacious arguments. This went well beyond mere verbal deceit to tampering with the scriptural text.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Tyndale set himself to solve this problem by producing the world’s first English New Testament, translated from the original Greek into the common vernacular of the people. In doing so, he exposed what we call the great ecclesiastical conspiracy that was at the heart of all the abuses. The church had something to protect and protect it they did, and in their usual manner they began to plot the death of the heretic.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Michael Scheifler tells of the general sense of ill will toward Tyndale by those of the papal church, and why.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"Sir Thomas More, had this to say about Tyndale- he calls him 'a beast', as one of the 'hell-hounds that the devil hath in his kennel', discharging a 'filthy foam of blasphemies out of his brutish beastly mouth'...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"So what had Tyndale done in his translation that was so heretical? According to David Daniell, Tyndale had translated the Greek word for 'elder' as 'elder' instead of 'priest', he had translated the Greek word for 'congregation' as 'congregation' instead of 'church', the Greek word for 'repentance' as 'repentance' instead of 'penance' etc. Why were such differences important to the church? The Roman Church has priests, not elders. A congregation implies a locally autonomous group of believers guided by the Holy Spirit and not a hierarchical unified church subject to a Pope. The Roman Church is built on penance and indulgences to the priest and Church, not repentance to, and forgiveness from God. In trying to faithfully render the Greek into English, Tyndale's translation exposed the errors of the church to the people which quickly brought the wrath of the church down on him." (Michael Scheifler William Tyndale - Heretical Blasphemer?)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Even the casual reader of history will discover that there was in fact an attempt by the Church of Rome to adulterate the scriptures. An attempt to replace the Greek and Hebrew text with Latin to keep the true meaning of the scriptures from the people, concealing them in a dead language that only scholars knew. It was a conspiracy conceived in hell.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Let us digress for a moment.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]By 600 AD Latin was the only language allowed for scripture. The scriptures were thus subject to Papal interpretation and were most certainly altered to suit the church’s ecclesiastical paradigm. This explains the hatred for the Hebrew and Greek texts, since the original texts exposed their façade.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Albert Gilmore explains,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"The languages of the early Bibles, Hebrew and Greek, were no longer of interest. So marked did this lack of interest become that when, after the Renaissance, Cardinal Ximenes published his Polyglot edition with the Latin Vulgate between the Greek and Hebrew versions of the Old Testament, he stated in his preface that it was 'like Jesus between two thieves" (Gilmore, The Bible: Beacon Light of History, Boston: Associated Authors, 1935, p. 170).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Tyndale was right. They were wresting the scriptures unto their own purposes. How far had the church fallen from its original norm? Suffice it to say that it was nothing like its founder (Jesus) intended. Amazingly enough, the Bible itself was the primary tool for deception. By the adulteration and misrepresentation of the scriptures, ambitious men justified their jobs in a system ruled by despotic pontiff kings and their hireling bishops. This is no less than a conspiracy that continues to this very day.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]The following questions may help us see the depth of this conspiracy.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]How did the Greek word Ekklesia, meaning a called out assembly, come to be translated church, a word that is neither Greek or English but is of doubtful Latin or perhaps Scottish origin and implies temple worship? Some believe it to be of pagan origin. Regardless, what is a word that is neither Greek nor English doing in a Greek to English translation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Why did the Greek words "presbytery (the elderly), apostle (envoy or sent one), and deacon (servant) remain untranslated into their Anglicized form? Why was the Greek word presbuteros (older or elderly) translated priest? Why indeed! There is little doubt that these words remained untranslated so the clergy could redefine them, interpreting them with the strongest institutional and hierarchical connotations. Was this mere ignorance, or a means of creating a ruling class of super saints? It is clear to us that down through the years the scriptures have been subjected to papal tampering. There even remains evidence that some of the early manuscripts were altered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"But almost all authorities on the text agree that they preserve a better text than the standardized 5th century one, which shows clear signs of having been edited." (Erdmans handbook to the Bible, pp. 73)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]It is also clear that this tampering was to promote and justify a system of church government ordered after the government of "the kings of the Gentiles," which Christ had strictly prohibited, saying, "But you shall not be so." (See Luke 22:25-26). Whatever happened to the servanthood that Jesus and the early Church modeled? How did these servants of the first century give way to the pontiff kings of the fourth and fifth centuries? Had Christ’s declaration, "But you shall not be so," been forgotten?[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]The early believers followed the Lord's example and instructions on this all-important matter, and they viewed servanthood as the highest vocation. But by the close of the first century, the subtle signs of the rise of the bishops began, ever so cunningly, to corrupt the simplicity of the faith and to defile the example of the lowly Christ. As absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely, so the corruption began. Like a dead corpse rotting away, in time the Church bore only a vague resemblance to what was once living and vibrant.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]In the third century, the wound worsened by the full marriage of this apostate church to paganism. This new "Christianity" became the imperial religion of the Roman Empire. It was there at Constantinople that the very first Christian temples were constructed. They were merely christianized pagan temples. The priesthood was fashioned after a mixture of the Old Testament and pagan priesthoods. Finally, Rome had done it. If they could not add Christ to the pantheon, they would bring the pantheon to Christianity. The Romans had long since tried to further unite their empire by uniting all its gods in one temple, the pantheon. There the worship of the Son was mixed with the worship of the sun, so much so that a third century mosaic from a tomb found under Saint Peter’s in Rome depicted Christ as the sun god in his chariot. It was not until the fifth century that the worshipers in Rome stopped bowing to the sun before entering Saint Peter's basilica.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"Pope Leo 1, in the middle of the fifth century, rebuked worshippers who turned around to bow to the sun before entering St Peters basilica." (Erdmans’ handbook to the history of Christianity pg. 131)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The deception reigned unchecked for 925 years, until William Tyndale challenged this religious institution with the light of the truth. He revealed part of the conspiracy that had enslaved the family of God in this twisted, abnormal thing, which the pharisaical clergy called the church.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Although he revealed some of the conspiracy, changing history forever, it none the less remains. The light sent it scurrying into the shadows only to return in a more subtle, congenial form, an anglicized form. It now smiled as it placed the dagger between the forth and the fifth rib. A tame beast is still a beast, and though defanged and declawed, it can still cripple and maim.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]After Tyndale was martyred for his efforts, and all but two of his Bibles destroyed, several important events occurred. First, Henry VIII evicted the Catholic Church from England because the Pope refused to annul his marriage with Catherine of Aragon and sanction his illicit relationship with Anne Boleyn. The break with Rome came in 1534, when Parliament passed the Supremacy Act, making Henry head of the Church of England. Henry was somewhat sympathetic to Luther's views, which opened England as never before to Protestant influences, including translating, printing and importing Protestant Bibles. Some men, such as Coverdale, were inspired to continue in the spirit of Tyndale's work. There was also the Geneva Bible, which effected great changes throughout Europe. In the tradition of Tyndale, these Bibles no longer promoted the divine right of kings and ruling bishops, but instead recognized the priesthood of all believers. To kings and bishops who exercised absolute authority over the masses, this was intolerable. More than anything else, this set the stage for the translation of a new Bible. The king's new Bible was translated to solidify the station of both king and bishops, preserving and advancing a system of Church government that stood in antithesis to Christ's example and teachings and continues to do so until this very day.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]We believe in the inspiration and accuracy of the koine Greek texts of the New Testament. However the translations that have followed are not as reliable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is ecclesiastical ambition. Historically, this love letter from God that we call the Bible was shaped into a scepter of power in the hands of popes, kings and would-be kings to further consolidate their power over the masses. Undoubtedly this very ambition has tainted the translations from Jerome onward. This reached new heights at a time when bishops sought the approval of kings to authorize translations that had been purposefully skewed toward their ecclesiastical paradigm.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]It is ludicrous to many that the Protestant Church could be guilty of carrying on any of the traditions of the Catholic Church that it so loudly objected to. To some, the idea of an ongoing conspiracy is even more unbelievable, because they already possess the unadulterated truth. They hold it in their hands, professing that it is the ultimate authority, the only true Bible, the authorized Bible, the King James Bible. Authorized by whom? No less than King James himself! King James did his part in preserving the conspiracy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]An understanding of the political climate of the early 16th century is crucial if we are to comprehend the motives and logic behind the king's new translation. King James was a staunch advocate of the divine right of kings, as facilitated by puppet bishops. This was the Anglican answer to papal succession, in which active resistance to pope or king was considered a sin worthy of eternal ****ation. In his Basilicon Doron, in the second sonnet entitled "THE ARGUMENT OF THE BOOK" (written to his son), we catch a glimpse of James' exaggerated appraisal of kingship.[/SIZE]
Jezreel I heard many years ago that the bible was created to be used to control man. The rulers of the day wanted control over the populace and so they formulated the bible to do so by making and enforcing laws. I have since recanted any thoughts that that may be the case or even factual in certainty. But highly possible.
As watchmen, our purpose is to maintain the truth and keep it so. The King James Version has been proven to be highly accurate. What has failed is that most people do not know what the old words meant and so they sue them in the usage we have today, which in may cases is not correct to the meaning of which it was written.
Buddee You asked and posed a very good question. I don’ think anyone is implying an addition of words, but rather a false interpretations of them. There has been some added through time or changed to meet the intended religion.
I John 5:7 was added in some bibles: “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”
And left out after it was discovered that it was not original text and replaced with part of what was once I John 5:6: “And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
I John 5:7 was added because people that felt that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were all the same being. The NIV bible is similar to learning a religion rather than history. Not a choice of mine to learn from.
To understand the falseness of the Trinity you only need to look in your heart. But some have been mislead for so long they do not see so clearly, so consider these:
“My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father`s hand.” John 10:29
Jesus is declaring that God is greater than he is and has given him people, like us, to claim as his own(followers).
In the previous verse you can see that it is Jesus who gives us eternal life, not God. “and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.”
This is why Jesus said a person must be born of “water” and “spirit.” God gives us the spirit through the sowing of the seeds, but ultimately the decision is left to Jesus and only Jesus.
This is true for the time of grace we live in now until he returns. That is when all the times will end. No more people will be made or produced, but I expect many will be born during the millennium, perhaps many of those who were aborted now or miscarried. Perhaps even some will be born after it as well since there will be another resurrection then.
Jesus left the Holy Spirit behind because he is one person and can only be heard in person or via hearsay. The Holy Spirit can occupy many people at one time and teach them.
The three are not one in the same nor share the same abilities. God is one and only one, made up of or having seven spirits. Jesus is the son who has a flesh body like us while the Holy Spirit has no body but is only a spirit invisible to everyone.
Then keep I mind this: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].” John 1:18
John wrote this after he was taken up or else he was speculating about where Jesus was. Jesus returned to be with God as written in the book of Revelation where he is seen in the “midst of the throne.”
If Jesus was God, then that means that several thousand people saw God and not just one. The “word” that became flesh was not God, it was his word which formed and made everything. In essence, it was his promise. Though it is true and correctly written by John, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” it is misunderstood.
Gods “word” is always with him and it is always made by God. All things exist by God’s word, even us. His word made everything and still makes everything today, even the expansive universe is made daily by God and while we sleep it keeps growing. “But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work.” John 5:17
As watchmen, our purpose is to maintain the truth and keep it so. The King James Version has been proven to be highly accurate. What has failed is that most people do not know what the old words meant and so they sue them in the usage we have today, which in may cases is not correct to the meaning of which it was written.
Buddee You asked and posed a very good question. I don’ think anyone is implying an addition of words, but rather a false interpretations of them. There has been some added through time or changed to meet the intended religion.
I John 5:7 was added in some bibles: “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”
And left out after it was discovered that it was not original text and replaced with part of what was once I John 5:6: “And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
I John 5:7 was added because people that felt that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were all the same being. The NIV bible is similar to learning a religion rather than history. Not a choice of mine to learn from.
To understand the falseness of the Trinity you only need to look in your heart. But some have been mislead for so long they do not see so clearly, so consider these:
“My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father`s hand.” John 10:29
Jesus is declaring that God is greater than he is and has given him people, like us, to claim as his own(followers).
In the previous verse you can see that it is Jesus who gives us eternal life, not God. “and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.”
This is why Jesus said a person must be born of “water” and “spirit.” God gives us the spirit through the sowing of the seeds, but ultimately the decision is left to Jesus and only Jesus.
This is true for the time of grace we live in now until he returns. That is when all the times will end. No more people will be made or produced, but I expect many will be born during the millennium, perhaps many of those who were aborted now or miscarried. Perhaps even some will be born after it as well since there will be another resurrection then.
Jesus left the Holy Spirit behind because he is one person and can only be heard in person or via hearsay. The Holy Spirit can occupy many people at one time and teach them.
The three are not one in the same nor share the same abilities. God is one and only one, made up of or having seven spirits. Jesus is the son who has a flesh body like us while the Holy Spirit has no body but is only a spirit invisible to everyone.
Then keep I mind this: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].” John 1:18
John wrote this after he was taken up or else he was speculating about where Jesus was. Jesus returned to be with God as written in the book of Revelation where he is seen in the “midst of the throne.”
If Jesus was God, then that means that several thousand people saw God and not just one. The “word” that became flesh was not God, it was his word which formed and made everything. In essence, it was his promise. Though it is true and correctly written by John, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” it is misunderstood.
Gods “word” is always with him and it is always made by God. All things exist by God’s word, even us. His word made everything and still makes everything today, even the expansive universe is made daily by God and while we sleep it keeps growing. “But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work.” John 5:17
J
[SIZE=+1]"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
[/SIZE]The Mark of the Beast -------------666 on the forehead (when people are deceived to believe in their mind and worship/obey the dictates of the False Messiah).
The Mark on the hand will be evident on those people that will act on what they believe and put the dictates of the False Prophet (a prominent leader) into action.
In other words --- think and do. Forehead and hand.
The Antichrist is already here but has not taken full control of a body yet.
Their political agenda is now operating as the New World Order into a One World Government.
Got time? Watch this movie. Click now!
[/SIZE]The Mark of the Beast -------------666 on the forehead (when people are deceived to believe in their mind and worship/obey the dictates of the False Messiah).
The Mark on the hand will be evident on those people that will act on what they believe and put the dictates of the False Prophet (a prominent leader) into action.
In other words --- think and do. Forehead and hand.
The Antichrist is already here but has not taken full control of a body yet.
Their political agenda is now operating as the New World Order into a One World Government.
Got time? Watch this movie. Click now!
J
Those who do not believe and will not obey the rules (possibly a law enforce) will be outlawed. Christian who has the mark of the covenant (Holy Spirit) cannot submit to this law and therefore will have to run and hide in the mountains (tribulation period -- I suppose). But if we remain alert and vigilant we will be caught in the rapture.
Believe and ye shall be save! Jesus Christ was and is to come.
Believe and ye shall be save! Jesus Christ was and is to come.
Seriously concerned over what is being said in this thread... the Holy Spirit in me is absolutely rejecting this garbage. did you seriously say the Father/Son/Holy spirit has come from satan?? wow ... In "testing" the spirits I choose to reject this and will no longer subscribe to this thread because it is obviously being multiposted by people who are AntiChristian.
imoss Did you not understand the statement? Consider this: If God is a spirit, Jesus is flesh, the Holy Spirit is here, then when someone says God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same being, it cannot be any spirit saying this except the spirit of the antichrist lead by none other than Satan.
"test the spirits to confess" for whoever denies the father and the son is not of god but of the antichrist. To claim that God and Jesus are one in the same is "antichrist" and comes from the devil, not God.
The Trinity belief disallows for a separation of entities. They are not one in the same.
"test the spirits to confess" for whoever denies the father and the son is not of god but of the antichrist. To claim that God and Jesus are one in the same is "antichrist" and comes from the devil, not God.
The Trinity belief disallows for a separation of entities. They are not one in the same.
Jinno It sounds like you're on drugs (figurative speaking). None of the signs of the rise completion of Satan have happened yet. True, the antichrist is here, but it is not singular, but plural, and will not be one man. You have much to learn.
Your analogy of the mark of the beast is interesting. I keep and maintain that NO ONE knows what the mark of the beast is because the completion has not happened. But here's what we do know:
"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto lamb, and he spake as a dragon." This beast will cause an image to be made in the likeness of the Beast with seven heads. It also this beast that brings on the mark, not the beast with seven heads and ten horns.
Until this image is made and stands in the holy place, Jesus is not scheduled to return. As for the mark, no one knows exactly what the seven heads and ten horns represent at this time. Some say it is the seven churches, some say it is the EU, some say it is the revised Roman empire, some say it is the seven continents on earth. The fact is, NO ONE KNOWS or will know until the image is made or caused to be made.
"When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand)," Mat 24:15
The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation that Jesus is talking about and is brought on by Satan as spoken of by Daniel. The holy place has no such image standing in it, and it cannot be agreed on yet as to where the holy place is. Temple mount or Mount Sinai or even a new temple? So until such an image is made and ready to be worshiped there will be no return of Jesus or any mark of the beast by any laws or country.
Your analogy of the mark of the beast is interesting. I keep and maintain that NO ONE knows what the mark of the beast is because the completion has not happened. But here's what we do know:
"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto lamb, and he spake as a dragon." This beast will cause an image to be made in the likeness of the Beast with seven heads. It also this beast that brings on the mark, not the beast with seven heads and ten horns.
Until this image is made and stands in the holy place, Jesus is not scheduled to return. As for the mark, no one knows exactly what the seven heads and ten horns represent at this time. Some say it is the seven churches, some say it is the EU, some say it is the revised Roman empire, some say it is the seven continents on earth. The fact is, NO ONE KNOWS or will know until the image is made or caused to be made.
"When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand)," Mat 24:15
The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation that Jesus is talking about and is brought on by Satan as spoken of by Daniel. The holy place has no such image standing in it, and it cannot be agreed on yet as to where the holy place is. Temple mount or Mount Sinai or even a new temple? So until such an image is made and ready to be worshiped there will be no return of Jesus or any mark of the beast by any laws or country.
To those who seek wisdom, notice that God has seven spirits before his throne called the seven spirits of God. Then compare that to Satan having seven heads who builds the beast which also has seven heads.
God made Satan out his own image having seven spirits giving Satan likeness with seven heads. The deception will be quite similar to the real thing when it happens. Who will be able to tell the difference between the seven spirits of God and the seven heads of the beast or Satan who is proclaiming to be God?
God made Satan out his own image having seven spirits giving Satan likeness with seven heads. The deception will be quite similar to the real thing when it happens. Who will be able to tell the difference between the seven spirits of God and the seven heads of the beast or Satan who is proclaiming to be God?