Apology - I have said the h. of Israel includes gentiles

[Gideon300]

I've realized it might have been a mistake on my part.

I'd like to just apologize to those that have saw my remark that the house of Israel includes Gentiles. Uh...

Many people seem to hold this belief that Israel is now a spiritual entity consisting of all believers, but I've recently realized that it's part of things taught by JWs (Jehovah's Witnesses aka the Watchtower), and at that point I was alerted that it might be a false doctrine, and that you might lead people astray by having this belief.

While I didn't say or believe Israel = today's believers, and was only making their house the "common returning place" (house of God) for all Christians, but I'm going to repent of it for now. I don't even want that logic.

This link may help: https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-Israel.html

It helps to remember that the original covenant God made was with Abraham, long before Israel existed. Before that, God promised Eve that her "seed", who we now know to be Lord Jesus, would crush Satan's head. Israel failed to fulfill God's purpose, as He knew she would.

Please be assured that doctrinal differences are not that important in God's kingdom. There will be no marks added or deducted for doctrinal purity. God looks at fruit and works. Is the fruit of the Spirit evident? Are the works of self or of God? The Corinthian church was most gifted spiritually, but knew little of fruit and their works were dead. If we seek God for reality and truth, He will keep us on the right track.

Of course there are some doctrines that are absolutes and need to be taken on board. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, to lead us into the Truth and keep us from error. As long was we keep humble (I don't know is a good place to start), we will be safe. Once we know something for sure, we can stand on that knowledge and not be swayed by false doctrines.

Maybe an example will help. There is a "prophet" who declared that the Holy Spirit is Lord, based on 2 Corinthians 3:17. Many Christians will immediately reject that interpretation because we know what the rest of God's word says. Jesus is Lord! It was not the Holy Spirit who went to the cross, suffered, died and rose again. We do not command demons in the name of the Holy Spirit. Those who do not know better could be deceived by a false interpretation. That's why we need to test everything and hold fast to that which is right and good.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

This is why Israel is comprised of children of the covenant, which includes non Jews. So, if you limit Israel to just the Jewish people, then you must believe that Abraham isn't the father of anyone else.

Now if the is JW teaching or doctrine, I don't know. But it is correct doctrine.

Actually, the JW acquaintance of mine told me that they believe the 144,000 firstfruits are "Israel of God," and they are the so-called "spiritual Israelites" that are chosen of JW, and only those few will become kings and priests. (Meaning the rest are not Israel.) This is pretty much non-biblical, and I'm going to tell him that.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

The Corinthian church was most gifted spiritually

I have heard that their ways started to get a bit messy, and hence the epistles of Paul.

Please be assured that doctrinal differences are not that important in God's kingdom. There will be no marks added or deducted for doctrinal purity.

Yes, I agree. But that's only if a slight difference doesn't cause any harm, right? If someone like the JW guy comes up and leads a believer away from the truth, he might end up in trouble. We should help mitigate that. They (JW) think that the 144,000 tribesmen of Israel mentioned in Rev 7 and 14 are not actual Israelites but people of the so-called "true spiritual Israel" chosen of JW. Now that's a big difference. Do the remaining prophecies referring to "house of Israel" pertain to the natural Jacobites or something else? Lost sheep of house of Israel? This should be asked more often.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Israel pertains to all nations on Earth IN CHRIST (All-capped for stress), then why should house of Israel pertain only to the Hebrew descendants?

Because the Abrahamic Covenant includes both. So please do a careful study of that covenant to see what God's plan is.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Because the Abrahamic Covenant includes both. So please do a careful study of that covenant to see what God's plan is.

And how is this supposed to answer my question? It was basically: How does the term "Israel" differ from the house of Israel?
If you can clarify your view/understanding on that, that'll be great.

And Just FYI, this thread is for discussion, so anything like "please just study" isn't helpful here, and I want the discussion to be constructive. Please keep that in mind when leaving comments like that. Thx.

 

[oyster67]

I've realized it might have been a mistake on my part.

I'd like to just apologize to those that have saw my remark that the house of Israel includes Gentiles. Uh...

Many people seem to hold this belief that Israel is now a spiritual entity consisting of all believers, but I've recently realized that it's part of things taught by JWs (Jehovah's Witnesses aka the Watchtower), and at that point I was alerted that it might be a false doctrine, and that you might lead people astray by having this belief.

While I didn't say or believe Israel = today's believers, and was only making their house the "common returning place" (house of God) for all Christians, but I'm going to repent of it for now. I don't even want that logic.

This is what the Bible says:

Galatians
3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We must not assume that we can achieve sound doctrine just by slamming JWs. We need to focus on the written and revealed Word of God.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

This is what the Bible says:

Galatians
3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We must not assume that we can achieve sound doctrine just by slamming JWs. We need to focus on the written and revealed Word of God.

I wasn't saying it was a wrong doctrine. I was "alerted".

It is indeed what the letters say. So this question to you, which I've put above for the others: Does the term "Israel" differ in any way from "the house of Israel"?

And do you believe that all prophecies concerning Israel now refer to the so-called "Spiritual Israel", and all believers are now called "Israel" because of seed of Abraham which is Christ?
(for more info, you might wanna look through the thread.)

 

[oyster67]

Does the term "Israel" differ in any way from "the house of Israel"?

Yes. The former contains one word and the latter contains 4 words. Splitting hairs? Absolutely.

do you believe that all prophecies concerning Israel now refer to the so-called "Spiritual Israel", and all believers are now called "Israel" because of seed of Abraham which is Christ?

No Judaizer will enter into the Kingdom unless he is born again. Jesus told this to a Jew named Nicodemus. No other way.

(for more info, you might wanna look through the thread.)

Read through 67 posts of flip-flop just to address one simple question? Not gonna happen.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

The former contains one word and the latter contains 4 words.

I request that you tell us HOW you define the two terms. If you think they're different, except in their spellings.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Read through 67 posts of flip-flop just to address one simple question? Not gonna happen.

So what are you here for then? I'm annoyed now. Based on the way you've replied to me so far, you don't seem interested in discussing this topic or in educating others in it.

why you here?

 

[oyster67]

why you here?

To answer all of pumpkinbread's highly personal and deeply philosophical questions?

Sorry about annoying you. Can we still be friends?