Are All Angels the Same?

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Mychael

Active member
Feb 18, 2020
139
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#41
This is from the Gnostic Gospels, for me it was an interesting read, it lists some of the Angels:
From The Gospel Of Bartholomew:
And Bartholomew asked him: Tell me all you have done and all you do. Beliar answered and said: I was first called Satanael, which means "angel of God". But when I rejected the image of God, I was called Satan, which means "angel of hell". I was the first angel to be created. For when God made the heavens he took a handful of fire and formed me first, Michael second, the captain of the hosts above, Gabriel third, Uriel forth, Raphael fifth, Nathanael sixth and 6,000 other angels, whose names I cannot tell. Then Bartholomew asked him: How do you chastise the souls of men? Beliar answered: Am I to describe the punishment of the hypocrites, the slanderers, the jesters, the covetous, the adulterers, the sorcerers, the soothsayers, and of those who believe in us, and of all behind whom I stand? ... and there came up from the abyss a wheel with a sword flashing fire, which had pipes. And I asked him: What is the sword? He answered: It is the sword for the gluttonous. They are put into this pipe, because in their gluttony they turn to every kind of sin. Into the second pipe come the slanderers, because they secretly slander their neighbours. Into the third pipe come the hypocrites and the rest whom I trip up with my machinations. Allow me to tell you about how I was casted down here, and how God made man. I wandered to and fro in the world, and God said to Michael: Bring me earth from the four ends of the world and water out of the four rivers of paradise. And when Michael had brought them to him, he formed Adam in the east, and gave form to the shapeless earth, and stretch sinews and veins, and unit everything into a harmonious whole. And he showed him reverence for his own sake, because he was in his image. And Michael also worshipped him. And when I came from the ends of the world, Michael said to me: Worship the image of God which he has made in his own likeness. But I said: I am fire of fire, I was the first angel to be formed, and shall I worship clay and matter? Michael said to me: Worship, lest God be angry with you.I answered: God will not be angry with me, but I will set up my throne over against his throne, and shall be as he is (Isa. 14:14). Then God was angry with me and casted me down, after he had commanded the window of heaven to be opened. When I was thrown down, he asked the 600 angels that stood under me, whether they would worship (Adam). They replied: As we saw our leader do,we also will not worship him who is less than ourselves.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#42
God sustained His Word in the book of wars of the Lord, do you know what man has done with it?

Numbers 21
14Wherefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah and the wadis. The Arnon
If you cannot trust the Bible we have as accurate then why believe it?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#44
Where are "seraphim" or "cherubim" called "angels" in the Bible? It seems to me that there is some logical gap-leaping going on.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#45
I trust there are other inspired books, do you or not?
I do not. Otherwise God through the Spirit and men would of included other books in our Bible.

Otherwise what is inspired is relative. And a matter of what books you like.

The Bible is the Word of God. True or not? Do you believe our current Bible is 100% infallible?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#46
This is from the Gnostic Gospels, for me it was an interesting read, it lists some of the Angels:
From The Gospel Of Bartholomew:
And Bartholomew asked him: Tell me all you have done and all you do. Beliar answered and said: I was first called Satanael, which means "angel of God". But when I rejected the image of God, I was called Satan, which means "angel of hell". I was the first angel to be created. For when God made the heavens he took a handful of fire and formed me first, Michael second, the captain of the hosts above, Gabriel third, Uriel forth, Raphael fifth, Nathanael sixth and 6,000 other angels, whose names I cannot tell. Then Bartholomew asked him: How do you chastise the souls of men? Beliar answered: Am I to describe the punishment of the hypocrites, the slanderers, the jesters, the covetous, the adulterers, the sorcerers, the soothsayers, and of those who believe in us, and of all behind whom I stand? ... and there came up from the abyss a wheel with a sword flashing fire, which had pipes. And I asked him: What is the sword? He answered: It is the sword for the gluttonous. They are put into this pipe, because in their gluttony they turn to every kind of sin. Into the second pipe come the slanderers, because they secretly slander their neighbours. Into the third pipe come the hypocrites and the rest whom I trip up with my machinations. Allow me to tell you about how I was casted down here, and how God made man. I wandered to and fro in the world, and God said to Michael: Bring me earth from the four ends of the world and water out of the four rivers of paradise. And when Michael had brought them to him, he formed Adam in the east, and gave form to the shapeless earth, and stretch sinews and veins, and unit everything into a harmonious whole. And he showed him reverence for his own sake, because he was in his image. And Michael also worshipped him. And when I came from the ends of the world, Michael said to me: Worship the image of God which he has made in his own likeness. But I said: I am fire of fire, I was the first angel to be formed, and shall I worship clay and matter? Michael said to me: Worship, lest God be angry with you.I answered: God will not be angry with me, but I will set up my throne over against his throne, and shall be as he is (Isa. 14:14). Then God was angry with me and casted me down, after he had commanded the window of heaven to be opened. When I was thrown down, he asked the 600 angels that stood under me, whether they would worship (Adam). They replied: As we saw our leader do,we also will not worship him who is less than ourselves.
Archangel Michael worshiped Adam? What a load of tripe.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#47
I do not. Otherwise God through the Spirit and men would of included other books in our Bible.

Otherwise what is inspired is relative. And a matter of what books you like.

The Bible is the Word of God. True or not? Do you believe our current Bible is 100% infallible?
This shows great trust in the flesh of men, for man is given free will and they can listen to the Lord or not listen to Him in deciding what is inspired.

As we are told, we are to watch for devils who enter the Lord's church to corrupt it. That is also true of the councils who decide on the books that are inspired. We can put our entire trust in everything of the Lord, but we cannot put our trust entirely in man.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#48
If you cannot trust the Bible we have as accurate then why believe it?
We can completely believe scripture from God but that does not mean we must not check the thoughts and reasons that man uses to decide what is of God. Men who love the Lord check these things to protect the word.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#49
I do not. Otherwise God through the Spirit and men would of included other books in our Bible.

Otherwise what is inspired is relative. And a matter of what books you like.

The Bible is the Word of God. True or not? Do you believe our current Bible is 100% infallible?
Thats a reason for your Roman sandals for you look not the word but the world for your answers
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#50
God sustained His Word in the book of wars of the Lord, do you know what man has done with it?

Numbers 21
14Wherefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah and the wadis. The Arnon
Mentioning a book in Scripture does not mean that particularly mentioned book was inspired.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#54
This shows great trust in the flesh of men, for man is given free will and they can listen to the Lord or not listen to Him in deciding what is inspired.

As we are told, we are to watch for devils who enter the Lord's church to corrupt it. That is also true of the councils who decide on the books that are inspired. We can put our entire trust in everything of the Lord, but we cannot put our trust entirely in man.
I have great trust in the Bible the Word of God. If you believe the Bible isn't accurate, corrupted or missing information then we have a HUGE problem making the Bible a fallible and inaccurate source because as you said men wrote it. Well, then you best throw out the whole thing because how do you know men ain't corrupted it since the beginning?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
113
#55
Thats a reason for your Roman sandals for you look not the word but the world for your answers
You are making no sense. God created the world didn't He? God's design has testified of God before we even had a written Word.

But besides that. The Bible is my source and everything is filtered through it. Everything of the world is filtered through it.

This is dangerous with the type of defense that Apocrypha is getting. Strange especially compared to the Bible.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#56
I have great trust in the Bible the Word of God. If you believe the Bible isn't accurate, corrupted or missing information then we have a HUGE problem making the Bible a fallible and inaccurate source because as you said men wrote it. Well, then you best throw out the whole thing because how do you know men ain't corrupted it since the beginning?
And I name on book that is mentioned there are several books mentions, but you toss those like a toy
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#57
You are making no sense. God created the world didn't He? God's design has testified of God before we even had a written Word.

But besides that. The Bible is my source and everything is filtered through it. Everything of the world is filtered through it.

This is dangerous with the type of defense that Apocrypha is getting. Strange especially compared to the Bible.
And your not a man of word for there are books mentioned but you fail in seeing them as something of God.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#58
Where are "seraphim" or "cherubim" called "angels" in the Bible? It seems to me that there is some logical gap-leaping going on.
Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

After God drove Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden, "He stationed cherubs at the east of the garden of Eden, and a fiery sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life" (Genesis 3:24).

Did you want scripture to state, for your personal satisfaction, that seraphim and cherabim are angels? Scripture tells us they exist, what do you say these are?
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
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#59
I have nothing more to say to neither of you two, burn those Roman shoes