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Originally Posted by notIbutChrist
The problem here is you ADDED prince of this world to the prophecy in Daniel 9. Daniel 9 is a prophecy of Messiah, not anti christ
Also the fact that you would stretch as far as to claim Genesis 29:27 has anything at all to do with the Tribulation shows you really have nothing to go on
The problem here is you ADDED prince of this world to the prophecy in Daniel 9. Daniel 9 is a prophecy of Messiah, not anti christ
Also the fact that you would stretch as far as to claim Genesis 29:27 has anything at all to do with the Tribulation shows you really have nothing to go on
J
I would like to know what Chruch Christ founded. The "church" was not astablished untill after Jesus had go into heaven. Christ's Church is all believers. Also, where does it ever say in the Bible that they don't believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, because I have never read it. We you please tell me where it is at?
P
I am not separating the verses and yes they must be interpreted together.
It sounds more like you are separating the verses?
Daniel 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And HE (prince of this world) shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the midst of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
John14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me
Daniel 11:22And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Daniel 11:28Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant; and he shall do [exploits], and return to his own land.
Daniel 11:30For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Daniel 11:32And such as do wickedly against the COVENANT shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].
You have no link putting (Jesus) as HE in verse 27
You have no link putting the seven years or (one week) back into the past.
You have no link putting the people of the prince as (Israel) in verse 26.
But there is links putting (prince of this world) as HE in verse 27
And that makes a link to the (people of the prince) being prince of this worlds people the AC in verse 26
Jesus told us what to look for in Matt24 and then shall great tribulation will begin.
It sounds more like you are separating the verses?
Daniel 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And HE (prince of this world) shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the midst of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
John14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me
Daniel 11:22And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Daniel 11:28Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant; and he shall do [exploits], and return to his own land.
Daniel 11:30For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Daniel 11:32And such as do wickedly against the COVENANT shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].
You have no link putting (Jesus) as HE in verse 27
You have no link putting the seven years or (one week) back into the past.
You have no link putting the people of the prince as (Israel) in verse 26.
But there is links putting (prince of this world) as HE in verse 27
And that makes a link to the (people of the prince) being prince of this worlds people the AC in verse 26
Jesus told us what to look for in Matt24 and then shall great tribulation will begin.
A
ib4gzus if the rapture is eminent. Then why did Paul have to write
the Thessalonians(reminding them) in chapter 2. He told them there had to be a apostacy first
and the man of sin revealed. Why would that be something they should know
and not be shaken or troubled or deceived over?
It doesnt make sense if they were to be raptured pretrib to tell them all this.
Paul in fact was telling them they would see these things...therefore the rapture was never
eminent.
the Thessalonians(reminding them) in chapter 2. He told them there had to be a apostacy first
and the man of sin revealed. Why would that be something they should know
and not be shaken or troubled or deceived over?
It doesnt make sense if they were to be raptured pretrib to tell them all this.
Paul in fact was telling them they would see these things...therefore the rapture was never
eminent.
ya i am not sure about the whole rapture thing. i certainly think it would be easier if we all got a free ride out of here instead of doing any work around here. i mean really this garden is all messed up. it would probably be easier to let it be destroyed than to try and clean the place up. i'm sure once we come back and we have a new garden that we wont do anything wrong to mess that one up. even if we do we can just wait to be airlifted out again before its cleaned up again. as for those left behind well they get what they deserve. never mind that those left behind will be family and friends, hey at least its not me down there.
does any of that sound like something a Christian should say? maybe not. does the bible say that's whats going to happen? i guess that depends on who you ask. does fear of damnation motivate you to be a Christian or does love and compassion motivate you to be a Christian? if you were walking next to Jesus during times of trouble would you just get out of there before something bad happened to you?
if the revelation and rapture came, what if you were the only person to notice it. would you just go and leave billions to die? what if everyone was going and only one person was left behind? would everyone just go and leave one to die? has anyone ever felt survivors guilt? how much joy will we feel when we know others are suffering.
the thing is no one knows when revelation will happen. it will happen like a thief in the night. the bags by the door will be left behind. so why bother trying to argue about when they should be packed. people have been claiming that the signs of it happening are all around us for years now. as they have throughout all times of trouble throughout history. personally i pray that by the time revelations happens, there wont be a single person left behind. maybe we should all pray for that.
Duewell
first will be last and last will be first.
does any of that sound like something a Christian should say? maybe not. does the bible say that's whats going to happen? i guess that depends on who you ask. does fear of damnation motivate you to be a Christian or does love and compassion motivate you to be a Christian? if you were walking next to Jesus during times of trouble would you just get out of there before something bad happened to you?
if the revelation and rapture came, what if you were the only person to notice it. would you just go and leave billions to die? what if everyone was going and only one person was left behind? would everyone just go and leave one to die? has anyone ever felt survivors guilt? how much joy will we feel when we know others are suffering.
the thing is no one knows when revelation will happen. it will happen like a thief in the night. the bags by the door will be left behind. so why bother trying to argue about when they should be packed. people have been claiming that the signs of it happening are all around us for years now. as they have throughout all times of trouble throughout history. personally i pray that by the time revelations happens, there wont be a single person left behind. maybe we should all pray for that.
Duewell
first will be last and last will be first.
This has been explained to you in the simplest of terms and you won't accept it because of your convoluted understanding. There was OT (dispensational) saints, there is NT (dispensational) saints and there will be Tribulation (70th week dispensational) saints. The NT saints are not the OT saints and the Tribulation saints will not be the NT church saints either. All saints in the eternal kingdom will all be gathered together as one. See how simple that is to understand. Try simplicity for a change, you just might get blessed. Dispensationalism is a beautiful way to understanding the work and plan of God throughout the ages and you know what, God never changed and remained immutable.
He found different ways to deal with man to bring man reconciliation, hope and impute His righteousness through faith in His promises. Even under the law of Moses the people of Israel were not established in the righteousness of God, they also needed to believe the promises of God like Joshua and Caleb did. We have a promise from God as the church and body of Christ, and in that promise we will not take part in any tribulation that is coming upon the earth to deal with Israel and the children of disobedience. If there is any that do not agree then they lack faith and live in unbelief.
The biggest boneheaded misunderstanding that can be attributed to your amillennial view is that Satan has been already bound for 1,000 years from deceiving the nations and that the church is the present kingdom reign of Christ. What an absurdity and such lack of understanding and wisdom that smacks God's eternal purpose in the face of our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan can only glory in that teaching as he continues to deceive the nations and those that believe him to be bound up. What a devilish trick of wisdom he has played on those amillennialist in getting them to believe is such a contrived course of events. Don't be sucked into this trap and web of lies that only comes from the father of all lies.
Show us the evidence Zone that Satan has not been deceiving the nations for the past 2,000 years. Open your eyes and wake out of your sleep and pray that God would give you light, because He has not answered you as to your prayer to not be deceived. When a person is living in darkness they pray for light to remove the obscurity so they can see. That is true repentance!
He found different ways to deal with man to bring man reconciliation, hope and impute His righteousness through faith in His promises. Even under the law of Moses the people of Israel were not established in the righteousness of God, they also needed to believe the promises of God like Joshua and Caleb did. We have a promise from God as the church and body of Christ, and in that promise we will not take part in any tribulation that is coming upon the earth to deal with Israel and the children of disobedience. If there is any that do not agree then they lack faith and live in unbelief.
The biggest boneheaded misunderstanding that can be attributed to your amillennial view is that Satan has been already bound for 1,000 years from deceiving the nations and that the church is the present kingdom reign of Christ. What an absurdity and such lack of understanding and wisdom that smacks God's eternal purpose in the face of our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan can only glory in that teaching as he continues to deceive the nations and those that believe him to be bound up. What a devilish trick of wisdom he has played on those amillennialist in getting them to believe is such a contrived course of events. Don't be sucked into this trap and web of lies that only comes from the father of all lies.
Show us the evidence Zone that Satan has not been deceiving the nations for the past 2,000 years. Open your eyes and wake out of your sleep and pray that God would give you light, because He has not answered you as to your prayer to not be deceived. When a person is living in darkness they pray for light to remove the obscurity so they can see. That is true repentance!
no we don't.
you're making God promise something He never did.
the opposite is true.
you are in opposition to the scriptures.
false teaching.
back to Plan A after Plan B is evacuated.
sure.
"to deal with Israel"? exactly what will God DO?
restore an earthly kingdom because the Pharisees and others rejcted Jesus and The Kingdom was postponed for them? yes, that's your theory.
BUT: the church is the Israel of God.
typical cultish language.
you're making God promise something He never did.
the opposite is true.
you are in opposition to the scriptures.
false teaching.
back to Plan A after Plan B is evacuated.
sure.
"to deal with Israel"? exactly what will God DO?
restore an earthly kingdom because the Pharisees and others rejcted Jesus and The Kingdom was postponed for them? yes, that's your theory.
BUT: the church is the Israel of God.
typical cultish language.
Is it cultish language to tell others that if they do not believe upon Christ for salvation and the forgiveness of sins, that they lack faith and live in unbelief? O foolish woman, you have become bewitched about the goodness and greatness of God and you are leading little ones astray with your deceitful handling of the word of God and your empty knowledge. You despise the goodness of God and don't want it to apply to the church and bride of Christ in relationship to the great tribulation coming upon the earth. You also despise the plan of God in relationship to Israel, His elect, who he put on the shelf until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, but has never forgotten or forsaken. You have screwed up Rom 9 & 11 all over the place and failed to see the goodness of God. The salvation for the church is minus the great tribulation because we are hid with Christ in God and we have been redeemed from it with all of its wrath and affliction upon Israel and the children of disobedience. YES, YES, YES, God will raise up the Jews (NOT THE CHURCH) during the tribulation to preach and worship the Lamb. The church won't be preaching during the time of Jacob's trouble or any part of the tribulation because they will forever be with the Lord. You should be rejoicing in that but you despise it and spurn God's goodness and promise. Wake up Zone, HELLO is there anybody there?
Baloney there is no dispensationalism! God always remains the same.
This is a twisted judahized christian misbelief.
You are serving the beast if you support this.
John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh,
that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
You cannot serve God and the devil.
You cannot help the fleshly nation of israel and the jews, who despise our Lord and savior Jesus Christ,
to rebuild their blasphemous temple in which they intent to carry out animal sacrifices.
2. Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Again dispensationalism is made up by rabbinical pharisaic jews and their stooges like darby and scofield with their perverted scofield bible to deceive the Christians believing in a counterfeit eschatology to build up the slave kingdom of the jews called their tikkun olam aka the nwo.
The jewish neocons have already taken over your congress.Your real president is warmonger benjamin netanjahu not to say the king of the western world.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about.
Dispensationalism is the total opposite and contradicts that God never changed.
It's is man made timeline to advocate the blueprint of counterfeit bible plan.
You can easily recognize it that most adherents are israel firsters to help them
to build up their earthy greater israel even support bloody preemptive wars with
is another blatant contradiction. Why? Cause Jesus told us: "Blessed are the peace makers!"
So if you support those criminals your are cursed!
Read your own words! You completely leave out and ignore Gods salvation plan!
A typical double minded twisted mindset of a judahizer always digging in death meat.
So you have nothing to offer us in spiritual term just old death man bones.
Therefore you mention the bloody book of joshua where killing,slaughtering
by the jews till there was no one left.That must tease you..
This is a twisted judahized christian misbelief.
You are serving the beast if you support this.
John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh,
that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
You cannot serve God and the devil.
You cannot help the fleshly nation of israel and the jews, who despise our Lord and savior Jesus Christ,
to rebuild their blasphemous temple in which they intent to carry out animal sacrifices.
2. Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Again dispensationalism is made up by rabbinical pharisaic jews and their stooges like darby and scofield with their perverted scofield bible to deceive the Christians believing in a counterfeit eschatology to build up the slave kingdom of the jews called their tikkun olam aka the nwo.
The jewish neocons have already taken over your congress.Your real president is warmonger benjamin netanjahu not to say the king of the western world.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about.
Dispensationalism is the total opposite and contradicts that God never changed.
It's is man made timeline to advocate the blueprint of counterfeit bible plan.
You can easily recognize it that most adherents are israel firsters to help them
to build up their earthy greater israel even support bloody preemptive wars with
is another blatant contradiction. Why? Cause Jesus told us: "Blessed are the peace makers!"
So if you support those criminals your are cursed!
Read your own words! You completely leave out and ignore Gods salvation plan!
A typical double minded twisted mindset of a judahizer always digging in death meat.
So you have nothing to offer us in spiritual term just old death man bones.
Therefore you mention the bloody book of joshua where killing,slaughtering
by the jews till there was no one left.That must tease you..
Something I said really ticked you off. We have a saying here when this kind of thing happens, 'Your underwear is showing'. Don't be angry, just love God and be thankful for His mercy and grace and for His goodness that will keep all believers OUT OF the great tribulation coming upon the earth. See how good God is that He would take those that He has redeemed with His blood and take them to be with Him in heaven. And as one member of the church has repeatedly said, YA GOD!
BTW - Those criminals that you are talking about, they were chosen by God not me, for I am a Gentile and because of their unbelief salvation has come to me. You won't find me being critical of those that you and others have come to despise.
BTW - Those criminals that you are talking about, they were chosen by God not me, for I am a Gentile and because of their unbelief salvation has come to me. You won't find me being critical of those that you and others have come to despise.
behold the tragedy of Scofieldism.
the reality of the rapture cult.
~
Although the pretribulation rapture doctrine is very popular and is even considered so crucial to Christianity that it is made a test of a person’s orthodoxy in some denominations, Bible colleges and seminaries, the exegetical and theological arguments used by its advocates are all classic cases of forcing one’s theological presuppositions onto particular texts (eisegesis).
The purpose of this brief study is to show that the pretribulation rapture theory is not plainly taught or directly stated in any place in Scripture, cannot be deduced from biblical teaching, contradicts the general teaching of the Bible regarding Christ’s second coming and was never taught in any branch of the church prior to 1830.
http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/rapture.htm
the reality of the rapture cult.
~
Although the pretribulation rapture doctrine is very popular and is even considered so crucial to Christianity that it is made a test of a person’s orthodoxy in some denominations, Bible colleges and seminaries, the exegetical and theological arguments used by its advocates are all classic cases of forcing one’s theological presuppositions onto particular texts (eisegesis).
The purpose of this brief study is to show that the pretribulation rapture theory is not plainly taught or directly stated in any place in Scripture, cannot be deduced from biblical teaching, contradicts the general teaching of the Bible regarding Christ’s second coming and was never taught in any branch of the church prior to 1830.
http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/rapture.htm
No you and all the judeo christians have an obsession with the alleged chosen ones
which are not but those who have faith in Jesus Christ alone.
You deliberately misinterpreting the bible for the sake of the jews.
And yes i can't stand the crying shame that the alleged victims are in fact the historical revolutionary
perpetrators and mass murderers and that they seem to get away with it always gutting the gentiles
mocking and spitting on Jesus and Christians.
And still most of the pseudo christians fell down for them in admiration instead to Jesus.
But..
Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me,
I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
1. Thessalonians 2:15-16
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
which are not but those who have faith in Jesus Christ alone.
You deliberately misinterpreting the bible for the sake of the jews.
And yes i can't stand the crying shame that the alleged victims are in fact the historical revolutionary
perpetrators and mass murderers and that they seem to get away with it always gutting the gentiles
mocking and spitting on Jesus and Christians.
And still most of the pseudo christians fell down for them in admiration instead to Jesus.
But..
Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me,
I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
1. Thessalonians 2:15-16
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.