Are Non-Trinitarians saved?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#61
No that's a contradiction.



It seems you did above when you said , three persons, one being. If the three are one being then the Father must be the Son, or you have a contradiction.

There is NO contradiction at all.

Its simple logic supported by scripture like I already demonstrated.

The best you can do is voice your unreferenced opinion...of which...means absolutely nothing...
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#62
Butch...

Trinitarians are unmoved by your ignorance.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#63
By the print in bold, I don't see how you can say you believe in the Trinity . You have denied God the Son.
You seem to have an old rehashed Arian view.
I've not denied the Son. I've stated that He is deity. The Arian view is that Jesus was created, I have not said that but rather that He was begotten of the Father. There is nothing in the Scriptures that says the three are coequal. on the contrary Jesus stated plainly that the Father was greater than He. They can't be equal if one is greater than the other. Likewise, I've shown that what I've stated is the earliest understanding of the Trinity. The idea of three coequal persons is a later invention.

Here's a quote from Ignatius a student of the apostle John.

I write this letter to you from Philippi. May He who is alone unbegotten, keep you stedfast both in the spirit and in the flesh, through Him who was begotten before time began!
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

This is how the early Christians understood it. Notice there is the unbegotten God and he one who was begotten.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#64
Butch...

Trinitarians are unmoved by your ignorance.
What ignorance? What I've stated aligns with Scripture and the historical understanding of the Trinity. What you're stated (3 persons one being) is a contradiction.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#65
There is NO contradiction at all.

Its simple logic supported by scripture like I already demonstrated.

The best you can do is voice your unreferenced opinion...of which...means absolutely nothing...
It's not logical. Three persons cannot be one. That is a contradiction. If you look up the word person you'll find that being is a definition. Thus three persons=one being is the same thing as three persons=One person. That simply doesn't add up
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#66
It's not logical. Three persons cannot be one. That is a contradiction. If you look up the word person you'll find that being is a definition. Thus three persons=one being is the same thing as three persons=One person. That simply doesn't add up

Here, Butch....show us the contradiction...

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#67
Having trouble, Butch....?
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#68
You deny the Trinity. You deny the Athanasian Creed, and therefore deny Trinity.
I deny the Anthanasian Creed, yes, It's in error. However, I do not deny the Trinity, I hold the Nicene Creed.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth]; Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead and in the Holy Ghost.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#69
Here, Butch....show us the contradiction...

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
I already have. Three persons cannot be one person.
 
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#71
What ignorance? What I've stated aligns with Scripture and the historical understanding of the Trinity. What you're stated (3 persons one being) is a contradiction.
You do not acknowledge the historical view. Read the Athanasian Creed, read the whole of Clement's Epistle to Corinth, read Iranaeus's Against Heresies, read Augustine's attack on the Manachaeans, and the Nicene Creed of the Council of Nicea.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#73
No, but I believe you will have difficulty trying to explain how three persons can be one person.
You don't study Biblical Greek by googling the internet for English renderings, brother!

Come on....
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#76
It's a contradiction no matter what language it's in.

Let's go with the original, then...

Can you at the very least show us the arthrous substantives contained in this verse...?


πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#77
You do not acknowledge the historical view. Read the Athanasian Creed, read the whole of Clement's Epistle to Corinth, read Iranaeus's Against Heresies, read Augustine's attack on the Manachaeans, and the Nicene Creed of the Council of Nicea.
I do acknowledge the historical view, the Nicene Creed. However, the Anthanaian Creed is not the historical view.

Nicene Creed.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
begotten of the Father [the
only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of
God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of
one substance
with the Father


Anthanasian Creed.

That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped

The part I bolded is not the historical view and Scripture refutes it.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#78
Let's go with the original, then...

Can you at the very least show us the arthrous substantives contained in this verse...?


πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
Changing the subject doesn't address the issue.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#79
You're busted...

Changing the subject doesn't address the issue.
What the Greek says IS the issue.

I think at this point, it would be better to give you a wet paper bag to dig your way out of....rotflol...!
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#80
it's all Greek to me. But faith in the work of the cross is in all languages.