Are our sins really just burned away?

[kardiaoangelous]

Walking by spirit is what have difficulty understanding and grasping.

We can best understand it by examples (which is why we really needed Christ to first set that example as Peter tells us at 1 Peter 2:21 and which is evident in the example Paul used at Romans 2:14-15).

To understand it, let's suppose that you were forming a group of people to come together for a specific purpose like as offering help to the elderly.

You would no doubt begin by creating a list of rules designed to keep this effort healthy and assure that no one caused harm to the ones your purpose was to help.

These rules or mini laws each one have a spirit behind why they were chosen by you.

For example, a rule says, "After you clean for them do not leave the trash in the home, but make certain it gets out to the trash."

But the spirit of that rule says, "It is an unloving thing to leave the trash in the home, for various reasons, stench, germs, clutter, and so forth."

Therefore, just as Paul shows at Romans 2:14-15, there will be some who won't do that until they read the rule, and there would be some who would have done that anyway never having read the rule.

This is why love is superior to law and this is why what we do shows what is really in our hearts.

 

[sinless]

homwardbound, how does God know people love Him?

Well, Jesus said if you love me you will obey me

 

[zone]

I absolutly stand by these statements, and if that is what Mike Bickle teaches then I would have to agree with him about that.

Do you oppose the idea that we are to understand who we are in Christ in reference to our Bridal identity?

i don't do IHOP cult lingo.

brainwashing....such a shame.
you could always repent and find a peaceful orthodox church.
but then you wouldn't be so special.

i will offer you a warning though.
the men you are getting these ideas from are a masonic homosexual group.

so, i oppose you, i'm afraid.
just like always.


Forerunner Eschatology
You don’t have to be around the IHOP movement very long17 before you are exposed to a large glossary of insider terms and phrases, such as wilderness lifestyle, friend of the Bridegroom, Daniel anointing, eating the scroll, fasted lifestyle, burning and shining lamps, wholehearted lovers, zones of glory, corridor of glory, and many more that could be added.18

A cautionary red light should go on whenever we discover any church or Christian movement creating, and extensively using, their own exclusive language. The habitual use of insider language by a Christian movement can develop a we-are-different culture vis-a-vis the greater church. Soon a person’s use of prescribed terms and phrases is the way to determine whether they are true “insiders.” It can also easily create a “us” and “them” attitude within the Body of Christ. Many Christians living within such a cloistered culture can often find it difficult to leave or relate with other Christians, who do not speak “their language,” and who are frequently seen as spiritually lukewarm or compromising.

This becomes especially disconcerting when most inside a Christian movement begin to “talk alike” and parrot the same terms and phrases in their prayers and songs. This emerging reality at IHOP can be demonstrated by listening to the rapid prayer times in their “Prayer Room” or to the lyrics of the songs of IHOP’s quality worship musicians and singers.

More than all of IHOP’s inside terms, however, it is the word “forerunner” that is nearly ubiquitous. Among IHOP’s ministries, there is the Forerunner Christian Fellowship, Forerunner Music Academy, Forerunner School of Ministry, Forerunner Media School, Forerunner Evangelism, and Forerunner Books. It is safe to say that “forerunner” is the brand name of Bickle’s IHOP ministry. The use of the word “forerunner” is no accident. In fact, “forerunner eschatology” provides the greatest insight into the inner ethos and ministry thrust of Bickle and IHOP.

...

Based on Bickle’s end-time teaching, Jesus’ second coming has preconditions. He teaches that Jesus will not return until the global church is crying out “Come, Lord Jesus” with a full understanding of her identity as the Bride of Christ. Jesus will only return when the church is functioning in the unity of the Spirit and is anointed in prayer to release the destructive end-time tribulation judgments.

 

[sinless]

i will offer you a warning though.
the men you are getting these ideas from are a masonic homosexual group.

You do realize that I have learned all I teach through the study of scripture and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying Jesus was a gay Mason?

 

[sinless]

Based on Bickle’s end-time teaching, Jesus’ second coming has preconditions. He teaches that Jesus will not return until the global church is crying out “Come, Lord Jesus” with a full understanding of her identity as the Bride of Christ. Jesus will only return when the church is functioning in the unity of the Spirit and is anointed in prayer to release the destructive end-time tribulation judgments.

Im not sure about creating condition for Christ return, however we do need to understand our identity as the Bride, not so we can usher in His return, but so that we through the knowledge of who we are can love and obey our Lord more perfectly

 

[zone]

You do realize that I have learned all I teach through the study of scripture and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying Jesus was a gay Mason?

i'll deal with you tomorrow.

 

[Radius]

still waiting for sinless to say whether or not he has ever been banned from Christian Chat.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

For the greatest part most on here are saying the same things as sinnless but from different angles of view.

Every side of a diamond is a true side.

The false views that are not actually sides are what we stand against.

For example, many have come to believe that they can be saved by a mere statement that they believe in and accept Christ. Babes all around us are yet freely entangling themselves and being further polluted by the sin in this world and many of their shepherds are comforting that this is OK because Christ knows that we cannot overcome sin in this life. And that is a lie of Satan designed to lead these little lambs blindly to their slaughter.

Jeremiah 23:1 "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace."

That is true today as it was then.

 

[Radius]

For the greatest part most on here are saying the same things as sinnless but from different angles of view.

Every side of a diamond is a true side.

The false views that are not actually sides are what we stand against.

For example, many have come to believe that they can be saved by a mere statement that they believe in and accept Christ. Babes all around us are yet freely entangling themselves and being further polluted by the sin in this world and many of their shepherds are comforting that this is OK because Christ knows that we cannot overcome sin in this life. And that is a lie of Satan designed to lead these little lambs blindly to their slaughter.

Jeremiah 23:1 "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace."

That is true today as it was then.

Let me clarify my OP. I said faith alone (and it is, you cannot add your good works for salvation), but I did not mean you can go on unchanged in mind and body. There has to be a repentance that follows if you are truly born again and this will come through the Holy Spirit, conviction and the desire to be more like Christ.
If you say you are born again yet live like the devil, murder, rape, do drugs, drunkard and without any remorse at all and lust for it, I'd probably think that person was never truly born again to begin with.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Let me clarify my OP. I said faith alone (and it is, you cannot add your good works for salvation), but I did not mean you can go on unchanged in mind and body. There has to be a repentance that follows if you are truly born again and this will come through the Holy Spirit, conviction and the desire to be more like Christ.
If you say you are born again yet live like the devil, murder, rape, do drugs, drunkard and without any remorse at all and lust for it, I'd probably think that person was never truly born again to begin with.

I 100% agree.

 

[homwardbound]

Well, Jesus said if you love me you will obey me

and in the born again Spirit one does because in the born againSpirit of God provided by the resurrection at the cross one recieves the Love of God apead about in their new heart that permeates the dead body Flesh that brings oine back to life anew and this is the onky way it can be done no self-righteousness is in the Spirit of God
And human flesh and blood cannot recieve the love of God much less perform it as in 1 cor 13 that is the love shed abroad in ones new heart that permeates through and through flesha nd blood dead here and now and held alive by the spirit of God here and now. Sharper than any two edged sword dividing soul and Spirit

 

[Radius]

Let me clarify my OP. I said faith alone (and it is, you cannot add your good works for salvation), but I did not mean you can go on unchanged in mind and body. There has to be a repentance that follows if you are truly born again and this will come through the Holy Spirit, conviction and the desire to be more like Christ.
If you say you are born again yet live like the devil, murder, rape, do drugs, drunkard and without any remorse at all and lust for it, I'd probably think that person was never truly born again to begin with.

Ha, sorry everyone, this was supposed to be posted in another thread.

 

[homwardbound]

For the greatest part most on here are saying the same things as sinnless but from different angles of view.

Every side of a diamond is a true side.

The false views that are not actually sides are what we stand against.

For example, many have come to believe that they can be saved by a mere statement that they believe in and accept Christ. Babes all around us are yet freely entangling themselves and being further polluted by the sin in this world and many of their shepherds are comforting that this is OK because Christ knows that we cannot overcome sin in this life. And that is a lie of Satan designed to lead these little lambs blindly to their slaughter.

Jeremiah 23:1 "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace."

That is true today as it was then.

this is for those that take Christ and the cross for granted and only say they beleive to get rewards from others the same as what went on in christ's day here on earth
Now for those that do beleive do not give up on finding out the truth that sets them free. So anytime i am in bondage I sometimes need to remember truth and be set free as I was or I might need to re-think my truth that has been keeping me in bondage, because i know he did come to set us free and that first part is att he death of Christ freed from the punishment of sin and is 100% amazing. Now that part does not impart life, the resurrection of christ does though here and now this is what he came to do was to give us life, and the thief is still at work
John 10:10The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Now this life that he came to give is in the resurrection, and by this in beleif of God raising us from the dead Spirit and Soul we were born with is the life that he said that we may have it more abundantly here and now even if I am homeless, shipwrecked in jail no matter, we have life and we know it, therefore notihng can seperate us nothing fro God's love not even sin, therefore in response sin does not have power over us any longer because we are too busy praising God in God's Spirit, and by this Flesh ios dead period

 

[homwardbound]

Let me clarify my OP. I said faith alone (and it is, you cannot add your good works for salvation), but I did not mean you can go on unchanged in mind and body. There has to be a repentance that follows if you are truly born again and this will come through the Holy Spirit, conviction and the desire to be more like Christ.
If you say you are born again yet live like the devil, murder, rape, do drugs, drunkard and without any remorse at all and lust for it, I'd probably think that person was never truly born again to begin with.

our faith saves in Christ at the cross and if our works after are not better that the pharisees then
Matthew 5:20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
So even if one is not working by the Holy Ghost where no sin can occur and by their flesh and do beleive just not see the differance of flesh and Spirit their works of righteousness better be better than the Pharisees

 

[kardiaoangelous]

this is for those that take Christ and the cross for granted and only say they beleive to get rewards from others the same as what went on in christ's day here on earth
Now for those that do beleive do not give up on finding out the truth that sets them free. So anytime i am in bondage I sometimes need to remember truth and be set free as I was or I might need to re-think my truth that has been keeping me in bondage, because i know he did come to set us free and that first part is att he death of Christ freed from the punishment of sin and is 100% amazing. Now that part does not impart life, the resurrection of christ does though here and now this is what he came to do was to give us life, and the thief is still at work
John 10:10The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Now this life that he came to give is in the resurrection, and by this in beleif of God raising us from the dead Spirit and Soul we were born with is the life that he said that we may have it more abundantly here and now even if I am homeless, shipwrecked in jail no matter, we have life and we know it, therefore notihng can seperate us nothing fro God's love not even sin, therefore in response sin does not have power over us any longer because we are too busy praising God in God's Spirit, and by this Flesh ios dead period

You have a way of dancing right around what is spoken to you rather than understanding it.

It is the very fact that you have truth that you are able to use truth to deny truth.

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:68 "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."

These words sir are the commandments of God which by loving them, as does Christ, we keep.

Now he told you where that life is and are you with your greater insight going to make this life saving information hidden by telling everyone it is all in the cross as if something mystical?

I tell you for your own sake to be careful.

 

[Radius]

our faith saves in Christ at the cross and if our works after are not better that the pharisees then
Matthew 5:20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
So even if one is not working by the Holy Ghost where no sin can occur and by their flesh and do beleive just not see the differance of flesh and Spirit their works of righteousness better be better than the Pharisees

If a person is truly born again, he will do good works. Some people will do more good works than others. That's why there is a Judgment Day. All will be saved by the blood of Christ, though.

 

[Radius]

Kardia a person saved will do good works but will never be perfect. Do you agree?

 

[Cobus]

If a person is truly born again, he will do good works. Some people will do more good works than others. That's why there is a Judgment Day. All will be saved by the blood of Christ, though.

Radius tell me is a person that went through this process perfect enough for you to call the person a PERFECT MAN? Or better yet do you think a person that is all this is still not perfect? ...Unified of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.....

Is a person that is united in the FAITH, came to the KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS, ALL that knowledge, unto the measure of the stature of the FULNESS of Christ... still not perfect? What else does God have to do to make the person perfect?

If God made that person to the fulness of Christ, unto a perfect man, that man is still not perfect, because RADIUS says so...

HAHAHA no my friend, you cannot make unholy what God purified, and DECLARED,,, PERFECT MAN... That man is perfect, and does not need your approval to be perfect... He simply received God's grace unto perfection... unto salvation..

If God saves, a person is made perfect in that salvation... PERFECT! NOt only sinless, but PERFECT...

The Saintship was ALREADY SINLESS!!!! Read up and study what the word SAINT means... It is already a sinless person,.,, but still not perfect... But God does not stop at saint... He completes the man to be the LIKENESS and FULNESS of christ.... UNTO A PERFECT MAN... Eph 4 :11 to 13,,,, Read it right here,.,,
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Born again means BORN OF GOD... and look what God says about WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD...
1 John 3:9,,, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[homwardbound]

If a person is truly born again, he will do good works. Some people will do more good works than others. That's why there is a Judgment Day. All will be saved by the blood of Christ, though.

100% fact, we that beleive are covered by the blood, when we first beleived we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise Eph. 1-13 13 is the keay along with verse 7
[h=3]Ephesians 1:7[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace

[h=3]Ephesians 1:6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.Ephesians 1:13
[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

1 Thessalonians 2:4
But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

 

[homwardbound]

Radius tell me is a person that went through this process perfect enough for you to call the person a PERFECT MAN? Or better yet do you think a person that is all this is still not perfect? ...Unified of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.....

Is a person that is united in the FAITH, came to the KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS, ALL that knowledge, unto the measure of the stature of the FULNESS of Christ... still not perfect? What else does God have to do to make the person perfect?

If God made that person to the fulness of Christ, unto a perfect man, that man is still not perfect, because RADIUS says so...

HAHAHA no my friend, you cannot make unholy what God purified, and DECLARED,,, PERFECT MAN... That man is perfect, and does not need your approval to be perfect... He simply received God's grace unto perfection... unto salvation..

If God saves, a person is made perfect in that salvation... PERFECT! NOt only sinless, but PERFECT...

The Saintship was ALREADY SINLESS!!!! Read up and study what the word SAINT means... It is already a sinless person,.,, but still not perfect... But God does not stop at saint... He completes the man to be the LIKENESS and FULNESS of christ.... UNTO A PERFECT MAN... Eph 4 :11 to 13,,,, Read it right here,.,,
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Born again means BORN OF GOD... and look what God says about WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD...
1 John 3:9,,, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The problem is Cobus peoples flesh continue to get in the way, and they serve the law of sin and death,they come to see this and thus walk nack in the Spirt,
tell what about more GRACE or Sin? Go9d did do what God did do via the cross, now why would Chriost go to all that trouble and die then be risen again? He was perfect in the womb, born perfect in this world, he did not have to go to the cross for anyone, but he did for you too. Christ is the only one perfect and through his death, by beleif is your death if you belief then yuo are admitted into the kingdom by belief and are raised back toloife by the resurrection, and if one renews their mind by God's teaching one will desire and learn to stay walking in the S[pirit at all times.
But if it is as yousay we are to not ever sin again here and now which ios God'swish for all to see this, but not all will do this. But their works will be better than that of the Pharisees.
A lot of works will burn up but they themselves will be tested through fire and might be saved, and will be if that one truly beleived
1 cor. 3:9-15
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. [SUP]10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.