Are Roman Catholics Christians
- Thread starter MarkWilliams
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
GOD IS HATE as well as love.
All are born sinners, so we need to hear the Gospel. BUT ONLY THE ELECT WILL BELIEVE!
The reprobate go to hell to be punished for their sins, they deserve to be punished. Even a sinner like me would punish them, let alone a Holy God.
You miss the point every time. EVERY PERSON IS BORN A SINNER, ALL DESERVE HELL, GOD CHOSE TO SAVE SOME. What's your problem with that, You should ask why did God chose to save anyone. Why doesn't He cast everyone into hell. Now you answer that good question????
All are born sinners, so we need to hear the Gospel. BUT ONLY THE ELECT WILL BELIEVE!
The reprobate go to hell to be punished for their sins, they deserve to be punished. Even a sinner like me would punish them, let alone a Holy God.
You miss the point every time. EVERY PERSON IS BORN A SINNER, ALL DESERVE HELL, GOD CHOSE TO SAVE SOME. What's your problem with that, You should ask why did God chose to save anyone. Why doesn't He cast everyone into hell. Now you answer that good question????
Let's see you try and get around these, I expect you to come on board after reading these verses and join us for the sake of the truth
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him
Romans 9"16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God
Eph. 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus, according to the purpose of His will
Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to conform to the image of His Son
Roman 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated
Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world
Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son
Eph. 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God
There are tons more passages of scripture leaving no doubt that Calvin was right and all of you Arminians are wrong. I just don't have the time to list them all and explain each ones context. I would need to charge you for my services if that's what you really wanted me to do.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him
Romans 9"16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God
Eph. 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus, according to the purpose of His will
Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to conform to the image of His Son
Roman 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated
Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world
Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son
Eph. 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God
There are tons more passages of scripture leaving no doubt that Calvin was right and all of you Arminians are wrong. I just don't have the time to list them all and explain each ones context. I would need to charge you for my services if that's what you really wanted me to do.
Your analogy can not be correct because the Bible is not news.
about the transfer of Enoch to heaven The Bible also says nothing, Genesis says that "and he [was] not; for God took him" (5:24); in Hebr 11:5 we have "Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" - but this report is based on apocryphal Jewish literature, these details with the transfer of Enoch to heaven are known from there, and not from the Bible. This means that for the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, such literature as the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch were "the news".
4nd Kings where says about the ascension of Elijah (2:1). This we can call a fully biblical tradition regarding the source of Elijah. But what is the 4nd Kings? Initially it was a chronicle, which eventually was sacred, when it became part of the Bible. Biblical narrative texts are based on Jewish traditions. These texts were with time sacred, and after that people are perceive them as sacramental and untouchable text.
Concerning the sources of the displacement of Moses' body to heaven have already been said above. Before the appearance of the Gospels (where Moses appears before Jesus together with Elijah) there was a Jewish tradition about the ascension of Moses in the apocryphal Jewish literature.
In the Old Testament we can find several of prophecies about Mary, which distinguishes her among many righteous people (Gen 3:15; Is 7:14-16; Mic 5:2-3)
in the Orthodox Church there is a doctrine of the Dormition of the Mother of God. According to the legends about Mary which are common in Eastern Orthodoxy, she died she was buried, but her tomb was empty and the tradition speaks of the apostles witnessing the ascension of her immaculate body to heaven. I'm talking about legends in the East, in the apocrypha and writings of Eastern Church writers such as Andrew Caesarea and John Damascene. And here it must be admitted that in the Church there are different legends about the death of Mary. On the basis of Luke 2:35 in the early Church there was a legend about the martyrdom of Mary. In this case, the message in Luke 2:35 can be based on the tradition of the martyrdom Mary of the primitive Church that knew evangelist Luke. Accordingly, he as the author of the Gospel introduced this prophecy about Mary from the mouth of Simeon. Church fathers were knew tradition of martyrdom Mary, but they are strongly rejected such tradition and believed that she died quietly without ulcers torment.
about the transfer of Enoch to heaven The Bible also says nothing, Genesis says that "and he [was] not; for God took him" (5:24); in Hebr 11:5 we have "Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" - but this report is based on apocryphal Jewish literature, these details with the transfer of Enoch to heaven are known from there, and not from the Bible. This means that for the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, such literature as the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch were "the news".
4nd Kings where says about the ascension of Elijah (2:1). This we can call a fully biblical tradition regarding the source of Elijah. But what is the 4nd Kings? Initially it was a chronicle, which eventually was sacred, when it became part of the Bible. Biblical narrative texts are based on Jewish traditions. These texts were with time sacred, and after that people are perceive them as sacramental and untouchable text.
Concerning the sources of the displacement of Moses' body to heaven have already been said above. Before the appearance of the Gospels (where Moses appears before Jesus together with Elijah) there was a Jewish tradition about the ascension of Moses in the apocryphal Jewish literature.
In the Old Testament we can find several of prophecies about Mary, which distinguishes her among many righteous people (Gen 3:15; Is 7:14-16; Mic 5:2-3)
in the Orthodox Church there is a doctrine of the Dormition of the Mother of God. According to the legends about Mary which are common in Eastern Orthodoxy, she died she was buried, but her tomb was empty and the tradition speaks of the apostles witnessing the ascension of her immaculate body to heaven. I'm talking about legends in the East, in the apocrypha and writings of Eastern Church writers such as Andrew Caesarea and John Damascene. And here it must be admitted that in the Church there are different legends about the death of Mary. On the basis of Luke 2:35 in the early Church there was a legend about the martyrdom of Mary. In this case, the message in Luke 2:35 can be based on the tradition of the martyrdom Mary of the primitive Church that knew evangelist Luke. Accordingly, he as the author of the Gospel introduced this prophecy about Mary from the mouth of Simeon. Church fathers were knew tradition of martyrdom Mary, but they are strongly rejected such tradition and believed that she died quietly without ulcers torment.
-
1
- Show all
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him ~~~ John 14:6 But no man can come to the Father, but by me
Hebrew 11:6, For he that cometh to God must believe he is, and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
So let me guess, you would need to charge him for your services so that you might buy some instruction on how to come to the knowledge of the truth? Thy word is true from the beginning: Ps 119:160 Would that be when God said let there be light and there was light?
Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world.
(I take it that foundations was just a typo)
Hebrew 11:6, For he that cometh to God must believe he is, and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
So let me guess, you would need to charge him for your services so that you might buy some instruction on how to come to the knowledge of the truth? Thy word is true from the beginning: Ps 119:160 Would that be when God said let there be light and there was light?
Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world.
(I take it that foundations was just a typo)
1. Gospel mean good news, why you say Bible not news.
Origin of gospel
before 950; Middle English go(d)spell, Old English gōdspell (see good, spell2); translation of Greek euangélion good news; see evangel1
News is information isn't it.
I do not see in the Bible a prophecy or clue the assumption of Mary. If you know, give me the verse.
Why Catholic declare this doctrine after 2000 years, why not single apostle say or teach to pray or ask protection from Mary?
Origin of gospel
before 950; Middle English go(d)spell, Old English gōdspell (see good, spell2); translation of Greek euangélion good news; see evangel1
News is information isn't it.
I do not see in the Bible a prophecy or clue the assumption of Mary. If you know, give me the verse.
Why Catholic declare this doctrine after 2000 years, why not single apostle say or teach to pray or ask protection from Mary?
Friend, you have to be careful to interprate the Word.
Example God love Jacob but hate Esau.
It is not predetermined, but there is a reason for that. It may Esau not obey or can not be mold to obey, and Jacob moldable.
God is fair and God is love, He predetermined whosoever believe in Him to go to heaven.
Example God love Jacob but hate Esau.
It is not predetermined, but there is a reason for that. It may Esau not obey or can not be mold to obey, and Jacob moldable.
God is fair and God is love, He predetermined whosoever believe in Him to go to heaven.
But this is not news in the modern sense. For not to be confused with ordinary news, greek εὐαγγέλιον can rather means "a good notification". Moreover, in the Roman Empire the first century this "news" was poorly distributed in the secular world. Look, do many of the outer contemporaries of the earliest Christians know about Christ and talk a lot about Him? At that time about Him almost no one knew except Christians.
In the Bible there is no such. Therefore, the Bible can not serve to confirm or refute this teaching. The legend of Mary's death and her ascension was formed 300-400 years after the writing of the books of the New Testament, and the Church was can not immediately adopt this tradition.
In the Bible there is no such. Therefore, the Bible can not serve to confirm or refute this teaching. The legend of Mary's death and her ascension was formed 300-400 years after the writing of the books of the New Testament, and the Church was can not immediately adopt this tradition.
1. Friend. News is news, people select the most important to publish. Apostle never publish an information abou Mary has ability to hear or protect billions catholic. If the information come from tradition than I chose not to believe.
Isaiah 2:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 Stop trusting in mere humans,
who have but a breath in their nostrils.
Why hold them in esteem?
Mary is a human, why pray ask protection from her. I don't believe she able to hear million people.
2. Bible is standard, if not in the standard, than I better not believe.
Why God bring Mary dead body to heaven? It doesn't make sense to me.
Isaiah 2:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 Stop trusting in mere humans,
who have but a breath in their nostrils.
Why hold them in esteem?
Mary is a human, why pray ask protection from her. I don't believe she able to hear million people.
2. Bible is standard, if not in the standard, than I better not believe.
Why God bring Mary dead body to heaven? It doesn't make sense to me.
This is other news. Concerning the Gospel εὐαγγέλιον derived from εὐάγγελος (good envoy and ambassador, messenger, herald). The spread of the Gospel is not broadcasting news bulletins as some reportage. For example, in Acts 8:35 Philip preached (εὐηγγελίσατο) Jesus unto eunuch. Not the news in their ordinary sense, but the apostolic tale about Jesus (the narrative of Jesus story, messages about the coming of the Messiah and salvation, about the resurrection and eternal life) - here is what is the "Gospel" for early Christians.
Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.
The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.
The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a19.htm
The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.
The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a19.htm
Orthodox and Catholics are turning not only to Mary, but are turning to many of the saints who are also "receive" requests for intercession by millions of believers. And this is also not in the Bible. Cults of Mary and saints developed in the medieval church, from the 5th-6th centuries a custom arose to ask for intercession by saints before God. This is connected with the idea of the state of the righteous in the afterlife. It should be noted that the ecclesiastical writers of this period were with different ideas about "sleep" after death and their possibility of acting (after death they sleep and are inactive, or have some kind of activity). It depends on which each church writers.
Yes they would have others belive the kingdom of God is of this world and it does come by observation. Same as the first century apostate Jew.
Creating their own personal faith base with the idea of "patron saints" or what the scripture calls; "workers with familiar spirits.} They have over 3500 and rising , picking up speed in the last days as a foundation of necromancy, which is seeking after workers with familiar spirit gods
A person can go on line and purchase one of the teraphims (idol images) to put a face on the legion (3500) when one comes up they always come up as many. it can be seen with Saul in the old testament
Mark 5:9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Luke 8:30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
Creating their own personal faith base with the idea of "patron saints" or what the scripture calls; "workers with familiar spirits.} They have over 3500 and rising , picking up speed in the last days as a foundation of necromancy, which is seeking after workers with familiar spirit gods
A person can go on line and purchase one of the teraphims (idol images) to put a face on the legion (3500) when one comes up they always come up as many. it can be seen with Saul in the old testament
Mark 5:9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Luke 8:30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
In regard to the veneration of saints in churches with an ancient tradition, you exaggerate. In these ancient confessions there are
can be found ignorant people, as elsewhere, but the doctrine of the Church about the saints is not that they are executors of prayers, but that they are called by believers to participate in joint prayer. Living believers pray on earth, and the saints in heaven pray together to God and to Christ. As you can see, it is not crime and not demons. Again, in confessions there are always we can meet ignorant people, it is not worth judging on the basis of their about teaching of the Church. What you have written is full of superstition regarding the traditional Church.
can be found ignorant people, as elsewhere, but the doctrine of the Church about the saints is not that they are executors of prayers, but that they are called by believers to participate in joint prayer. Living believers pray on earth, and the saints in heaven pray together to God and to Christ. As you can see, it is not crime and not demons. Again, in confessions there are always we can meet ignorant people, it is not worth judging on the basis of their about teaching of the Church. What you have written is full of superstition regarding the traditional Church.