Are Roman Catholics Christians

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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You missed the point, everyone is born reprobate. God chooses to give some the gift of belief so they can believe when they hear, and He leaves the rest to remain dead in sin
Than why bother to warn if you not obey will be curse?

You do not need warning if you are elect you will obey automatically.

Why God chooses some the gift of believe and some go to hell?

It is not inline with the Bible, bible say God is love.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
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Than why bother to warn if you not obey will be curse?

You do not need warning if you are elect you will obey automatically.

Why God chooses some the gift of believe and some go to hell?

It is not inline with the Bible, bible say God is love.
GOD IS HATE as well as love.

All are born sinners, so we need to hear the Gospel. BUT ONLY THE ELECT WILL BELIEVE!

The reprobate go to hell to be punished for their sins, they deserve to be punished. Even a sinner like me would punish them, let alone a Holy God.

You miss the point every time. EVERY PERSON IS BORN A SINNER, ALL DESERVE HELL, GOD CHOSE TO SAVE SOME. What's your problem with that, You should ask why did God chose to save anyone. Why doesn't He cast everyone into hell. Now you answer that good question????
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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GOD IS HATE as well as love.

All are born sinners, so we need to hear the Gospel. BUT ONLY THE ELECT WILL BELIEVE!

The reprobate go to hell to be punished for their sins, they deserve to be punished. Even a sinner like me would punish them, let alone a Holy God.

You miss the point every time. EVERY PERSON IS BORN A SINNER, ALL DESERVE HELL, GOD CHOSE TO SAVE SOME. What's your problem with that, You should ask why did God chose to save anyone. Why doesn't He cast everyone into hell. Now you answer that good question????
I know every body is a sinner, that is what the Bible say, but God invite every body or whosoever believe in Him to save. Whosoever mean all invite, up to people chose to believe or not.

God is love, anybody believe or whosoever believe will save.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
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Hey Danny, while you're looking for good Bible verses that prove God predestined everything and has full control, please tell us what you do with these:

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also, please address these verses that refute your statement that King Saul was reprobate from the beginning.

1 Sam 9:
15) Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying,
16) To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
17) And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

1 Sam 10:
1) Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to becaptain over his inheritance?
6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7) And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
9) And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
Let's see you try and get around these, I expect you to come on board after reading these verses and join us for the sake of the truth

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him

Romans 9"16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God

Eph. 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus, according to the purpose of His will

Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to conform to the image of His Son

Roman 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated

Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

Eph. 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God

There are tons more passages of scripture leaving no doubt that Calvin was right and all of you Arminians are wrong. I just don't have the time to list them all and explain each ones context. I would need to charge you for my services if that's what you really wanted me to do.
 
Jun 29, 2018
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Yep, I read about assumption of Mary, but I don't believe it.

Let me make analogy: I remember when Obama bought a dog for his daughters, it was in the news

I bought a oh for my son, no body know.

Why?

Because Obama is president, a man with high social status, and I am ordinary citizens, a man with low social status.

It is normal, a man with high status get more publication. It happen every where.

When God take Elijah to heaven, it is in the news, we call it bible,

Mary have highest status than Elijah (according to catholic) why not in the Bible
Your analogy can not be correct because the Bible is not news.

about the transfer of Enoch to heaven The Bible also says nothing, Genesis says that "and he [was] not; for God took him" (5:24); in Hebr 11:5 we have "Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" - but this report is based on apocryphal Jewish literature, these details with the transfer of Enoch to heaven are known from there, and not from the Bible. This means that for the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, such literature as the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch were "the news".

4nd Kings where says about the ascension of Elijah (2:1). This we can call a fully biblical tradition regarding the source of Elijah. But what is the 4nd Kings? Initially it was a chronicle, which eventually was sacred, when it became part of the Bible. Biblical narrative texts are based on Jewish traditions. These texts were with time sacred, and after that people are perceive them as sacramental and untouchable text.

Concerning the sources of the displacement of Moses' body to heaven have already been said above. Before the appearance of the Gospels (where Moses appears before Jesus together with Elijah) there was a Jewish tradition about the ascension of Moses in the apocryphal Jewish literature.

And according to this article, the doctrine declare in 1950 by pope Prius XII

Why declare after 2000 years. If this happen must be in the Bible like what happen to Elijah. This is extraordinarily event.
In the Old Testament we can find several of prophecies about Mary, which distinguishes her among many righteous people (Gen 3:15; Is 7:14-16; Mic 5:2-3)


Quote
The doctrine was declared dogma for Roman Catholics by Pope Pius XII in the apostolic constitution Munificentissimus Deus on November 1, 1950. The Assumption is not considered a revealed doctrine among the Eastern Orthodox and is considered an obstacle to ecumenical dialogue by many Protestants.
in the Orthodox Church there is a doctrine of the Dormition of the Mother of God. According to the legends about Mary which are common in Eastern Orthodoxy, she died she was buried, but her tomb was empty and the tradition speaks of the apostles witnessing the ascension of her immaculate body to heaven. I'm talking about legends in the East, in the apocrypha and writings of Eastern Church writers such as Andrew Caesarea and John Damascene. And here it must be admitted that in the Church there are different legends about the death of Mary. On the basis of Luke 2:35 in the early Church there was a legend about the martyrdom of Mary. In this case, the message in Luke 2:35 can be based on the tradition of the martyrdom Mary of the primitive Church that knew evangelist Luke. Accordingly, he as the author of the Gospel introduced this prophecy about Mary from the mouth of Simeon. Church fathers were knew tradition of martyrdom Mary, but they are strongly rejected such tradition and believed that she died quietly without ulcers torment.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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Let's see you try and get around these, I expect you to come on board after reading these verses and join us for the sake of the truth

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him

Romans 9"16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God

Eph. 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus, according to the purpose of His will

Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to conform to the image of His Son

Roman 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated

Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

Eph. 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God

There are tons more passages of scripture leaving no doubt that Calvin was right and all of you Arminians are wrong. I just don't have the time to list them all and explain each ones context.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him ~~~ John 14:6 But no man can come to the Father, but by me

Hebrew 11:6, For he that cometh to God must believe he is, and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

I would need to charge you for my services if that's what you really wanted me to do.
So let me guess, you would need to charge him for your services so that you might buy some instruction on how to come to the knowledge of the truth? Thy word is true from the beginning: Ps 119:160 Would that be when God said let there be light and there was light?

Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world.

(I take it that foundations was just a typo)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Your analogy can not be correct because the Bible is not news.

about the transfer of Enoch to heaven The Bible also says nothing, Genesis says that "and he [was] not; for God took him" (5:24); in Hebr 11:5 we have "Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" - but this report is based on apocryphal Jewish literature, these details with the transfer of Enoch to heaven are known from there, and not from the Bible. This means that for the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, such literature as the book of Jubilees and the book of Enoch were "the news".

4nd Kings where says about the ascension of Elijah (2:1). This we can call a fully biblical tradition regarding the source of Elijah. But what is the 4nd Kings? Initially it was a chronicle, which eventually was sacred, when it became part of the Bible. Biblical narrative texts are based on Jewish traditions. These texts were with time sacred, and after that people are perceive them as sacramental and untouchable text.

Concerning the sources of the displacement of Moses' body to heaven have already been said above. Before the appearance of the Gospels (where Moses appears before Jesus together with Elijah) there was a Jewish tradition about the ascension of Moses in the apocryphal Jewish literature.


In the Old Testament we can find several of prophecies about Mary, which distinguishes her among many righteous people (Gen 3:15; Is 7:14-16; Mic 5:2-3)


in the Orthodox Church there is a doctrine of the Dormition of the Mother of God. According to the legends about Mary which are common in Eastern Orthodoxy, she died she was buried, but her tomb was empty and the tradition speaks of the apostles witnessing the ascension of her immaculate body to heaven. I'm talking about legends in the East, in the apocrypha and writings of Eastern Church writers such as Andrew Caesarea and John Damascene. And here it must be admitted that in the Church there are different legends about the death of Mary. On the basis of Luke 2:35 in the early Church there was a legend about the martyrdom of Mary. In this case, the message in Luke 2:35 can be based on the tradition of the martyrdom Mary of the primitive Church that knew evangelist Luke. Accordingly, he as the author of the Gospel introduced this prophecy about Mary from the mouth of Simeon. Church fathers were knew tradition of martyrdom Mary, but they are strongly rejected such tradition and believed that she died quietly without ulcers torment.
1. Gospel mean good news, why you say Bible not news.

Origin of gospel

before 950; Middle English go(d)spell, Old English gōdspell (see good, spell2); translation of Greek euangélion good news; see evangel1

News is information isn't it.

I do not see in the Bible a prophecy or clue the assumption of Mary. If you know, give me the verse.

Why Catholic declare this doctrine after 2000 years, why not single apostle say or teach to pray or ask protection from Mary?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
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Let's see you try and get around these, I expect you to come on board after reading these verses and join us for the sake of the truth

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him

Romans 9"16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God

Eph. 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus, according to the purpose of His will

Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to conform to the image of His Son

Roman 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau I hated

Eph. 1:4 Even as He chose us in Him, before the foundations of the world

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

Eph. 2: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God

There are tons more passages of scripture leaving no doubt that Calvin was right and all of you Arminians are wrong. I just don't have the time to list them all and explain each ones context. I would need to charge you for my services if that's what you really wanted me to do.
Friend, you have to be careful to interprate the Word.

Example God love Jacob but hate Esau.

It is not predetermined, but there is a reason for that. It may Esau not obey or can not be mold to obey, and Jacob moldable.

God is fair and God is love, He predetermined whosoever believe in Him to go to heaven.
 
Jun 29, 2018
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1. Gospel mean good news, why you say Bible not news.

Origin of gospel

before 950; Middle English go(d)spell, Old English gōdspell (see good, spell2); translation of Greek euangélion good news; see evangel1

News is information isn't it.
But this is not news in the modern sense. For not to be confused with ordinary news, greek εὐαγγέλιον can rather means "a good notification". Moreover, in the Roman Empire the first century this "news" was poorly distributed in the secular world. Look, do many of the outer contemporaries of the earliest Christians know about Christ and talk a lot about Him? At that time about Him almost no one knew except Christians.

I do not see in the Bible a prophecy or clue the assumption of Mary. If you know, give me the verse.

Why Catholic declare this doctrine after 2000 years, why not single apostle say or teach to pray or ask protection from Mary?
In the Bible there is no such. Therefore, the Bible can not serve to confirm or refute this teaching. The legend of Mary's death and her ascension was formed 300-400 years after the writing of the books of the New Testament, and the Church was can not immediately adopt this tradition.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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But this is not news in the modern sense. For not to be confused with ordinary news, greek εὐαγγέλιον can rather means "a good notification". Moreover, in the Roman Empire the first century this "news" was poorly distributed in the secular world. Look, do many of the outer contemporaries of the earliest Christians know about Christ and talk a lot about Him? At that time about Him almost no one knew except Christians.


In the Bible there is no such. Therefore, the Bible can not serve to confirm or refute this teaching. The legend of Mary's death and her ascension was formed 300-400 years after the writing of the books of the New Testament, and the Church was can not immediately adopt this tradition.
1. Friend. News is news, people select the most important to publish. Apostle never publish an information abou Mary has ability to hear or protect billions catholic. If the information come from tradition than I chose not to believe.

Isaiah 2:22 New International Version (NIV)

22 Stop trusting in mere humans,
who have but a breath in their nostrils.
Why hold them in esteem?


Mary is a human, why pray ask protection from her. I don't believe she able to hear million people.

2. Bible is standard, if not in the standard, than I better not believe.

Why God bring Mary dead body to heaven? It doesn't make sense to me.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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But this is not news in the modern sense. For not to be confused with ordinary news, greek εὐαγγέλιον can rather means "a good notification". Moreover, in the Roman Empire the first century this "news" was poorly distributed in the secular world. Look, do many of the outer contemporaries of the earliest Christians know about Christ and talk a lot about Him? At that time about Him almost no one knew except Christians.


In the Bible there is no such. Therefore, the Bible can not serve to confirm or refute this teaching. The legend of Mary's death and her ascension was formed 300-400 years after the writing of the books of the New Testament, and the Church was can not immediately adopt this tradition.
The legend was formed /create 300 - 400 years after writing of New Testament.

Why wait so long. It mean the creator wasn't eye witnesses. Can be lie.
 
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1. Friend. News is news, people select the most important to publish.
This is other news. Concerning the Gospel εὐαγγέλιον derived from εὐάγγελος (good envoy and ambassador, messenger, herald). The spread of the Gospel is not broadcasting news bulletins as some reportage. For example, in Acts 8:35 Philip preached (εὐηγγελίσατο) Jesus unto eunuch. Not the news in their ordinary sense, but the apostolic tale about Jesus (the narrative of Jesus story, messages about the coming of the Messiah and salvation, about the resurrection and eternal life) - here is what is the "Gospel" for early Christians.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Once I met a nun which was in an leader position and she told me that as believer you cant be shure that you are saved. This was surprising me.
Did you know that Calvin taught the same thing? No person can know they are of the elect until they die and see that they are. Because in that doctrine the proof of your election is that you never fall away. Of course, you can't know that until all opportunities to fall away have been exhausted.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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This is other news. Concerning the Gospel εὐαγγέλιον derived from εὐάγγελος (good envoy and ambassador, messenger, herald). The spread of the Gospel is not broadcasting news bulletins as some reportage. For example, in Acts 8:35 Philip preached (εὐηγγελίσατο) Jesus unto eunuch. Not the news in their ordinary sense, but the apostolic tale about Jesus (the narrative of Jesus story, messages about the coming of the Messiah and salvation, about the resurrection and eternal life) - here is what is the "Gospel" for early Christians.
You say not news in their ordinary sense, but apostolic tale about Jesus. But the story of how apostle Paul is include in the Bible, why the story of how Mary assumption not in the Bible, why the Mary ability to hear and protect billions catholic not in the Bible?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.

The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.

The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a19.htm
 
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You say not news in their ordinary sense, but apostolic tale about Jesus. But the story of how apostle Paul is include in the Bible, why the story of how Mary assumption not in the Bible, why the Mary ability to hear and protect billions catholic not in the Bible?
Orthodox and Catholics are turning not only to Mary, but are turning to many of the saints who are also "receive" requests for intercession by millions of believers. And this is also not in the Bible. Cults of Mary and saints developed in the medieval church, from the 5th-6th centuries a custom arose to ask for intercession by saints before God. This is connected with the idea of the state of the righteous in the afterlife. It should be noted that the ecclesiastical writers of this period were with different ideas about "sleep" after death and their possibility of acting (after death they sleep and are inactive, or have some kind of activity). It depends on which each church writers.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Orthodox and Catholics are turning not only to Mary, but are turning to many of the saints who are also "receive" requests for intercession by millions of believers. And this is also not in the Bible. Cults of Mary and saints developed in the medieval church, from the 5th-6th centuries a custom arose to ask for intercession by saints before God. This is connected with the idea of the state of the righteous in the afterlife. It should be noted that the ecclesiastical writers of this period were with different ideas about "sleep" after death and their possibility of acting (after death they sleep and are inactive, or have some kind of activity). It depends on which each church writers.
Yes they would have others belive the kingdom of God is of this world and it does come by observation. Same as the first century apostate Jew.

Creating their own personal faith base with the idea of "patron saints" or what the scripture calls; "workers with familiar spirits.} They have over 3500 and rising , picking up speed in the last days as a foundation of necromancy, which is seeking after workers with familiar spirit gods

A person can go on line and purchase one of the teraphims (idol images) to put a face on the legion (3500) when one comes up they always come up as many. it can be seen with Saul in the old testament

Mark 5:9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Luke 8:30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Orthodox and Catholics are turning not only to Mary, but are turning to many of the saints who are also "receive" requests for intercession by millions of believers. And this is also not in the Bible. Cults of Mary and saints developed in the medieval church, from the 5th-6th centuries a custom arose to ask for intercession by saints before God. This is connected with the idea of the state of the righteous in the afterlife. It should be noted that the ecclesiastical writers of this period were with different ideas about "sleep" after death and their possibility of acting (after death they sleep and are inactive, or have some kind of activity). It depends on which each church writers.
To me, only God able to hear billion people pray to Him, human do not have that quality, catholic doctrine have record lie. Example doctrine Islam and abraham worship the same God. It is pure lie
 
Jun 29, 2018
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Yes they would have others belive the kingdom of God is of this world and it does come by observation. Same as the first century apostate Jew.

Creating their own personal faith base with the idea of "patron saints" or what the scripture calls; "workers with familiar spirits.} They have over 3500 and rising , picking up speed in the last days as a foundation of necromancy, which is seeking after workers with familiar spirit gods

A person can go on line and purchase one of the teraphims (idol images) to put a face on the legion (3500) when one comes up they always come up as many. it can be seen with Saul in the old testament

Mark 5:9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Luke 8:30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
In regard to the veneration of saints in churches with an ancient tradition, you exaggerate. In these ancient confessions there are
can be found ignorant people, as elsewhere, but the doctrine of the Church about the saints is not that they are executors of prayers, but that they are called by believers to participate in joint prayer. Living believers pray on earth, and the saints in heaven pray together to God and to Christ. As you can see, it is not crime and not demons. Again, in confessions there are always we can meet ignorant people, it is not worth judging on the basis of their about teaching of the Church. What you have written is full of superstition regarding the traditional Church.
 
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To me, only God able to hear billion people pray to Him, human do not have that quality, catholic doctrine have record lie. Example doctrine Islam and abraham worship the same God. It is pure lie
Lying is a relative thing. Like the contradiction to the Bible. What in your eyes contradicts to the Bible, for the Catholic does not represent a contradiction.