Are Roman Catholics Christians

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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
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You say Jesus failed, I say Jesus is a winner. If Jesus came to save everyone, then He is a big failure.
You are ignoring that God gave people free will, the ability to choose. God cannot and does not make people believe.

I believe He saved everyone He came to save so He is a success, I don't believe in your weak failed Jesus. My Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and almighty God, who can do anything, He is not limited by your expectations
What do Calvinists do with these verses?

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Please do not do as some here have done and change the word "whosoever" to "the elect".
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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You say Jesus failed, I say Jesus is a winner. If Jesus came to save everyone, then He is a big failure. I believe He saved everyone He came to save so He is a success, I don't believe in your weak failed Jesus. My Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and almighty God, who can do anything, He is not limited by your expectations
Jesus never fail.

Let say I invite every body who willing to come to my house get million dollar, I am polite person, and never force people

Than only 1000 come, and I give them million each

Am I fail? Not at all

You accused Jesus not loving God, pre ordain human to go to hell

You accused Jesus cruel, inhuman. I believe Jesus is loving God, it is the Bible that say God is love.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
Jesus never fail.

Let say I invite every body who willing to come to my house get million dollar, I am polite person, and never force people

Than only 1000 come, and I give them million each

Am I fail? Not at all

You accused Jesus not loving God, pre ordain human to go to hell

You accused Jesus cruel, inhuman. I believe Jesus is loving God, it is the Bible that say God is love.
The Bible says that God does whatever He wants to do, if He wanted to give everyone a million dollars you would have it for sure. He never fails.
God casts sinners into hell, because they sinned and deserved it. Yes He created them and didn't save them, He doesn't have to save anyone. Nobody deserves to be saved. All have sinned and deserve hell, but out of His love He saved some
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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The Bible says that God does whatever He wants to do, if He wanted to give everyone a million dollars you would have it for sure. He never fails.
God casts sinners into hell, because they sinned and deserved it. Yes He created them and didn't save them, He doesn't have to save anyone. Nobody deserves to be saved. All have sinned and deserve hell, but out of His love He saved some
You accused God is so cruel, unfair, God is love, and fair, He do not need to save anybody because every body is sin, but he give a chance to whosoever believe in Him to save. Because he love
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
You accused God is so cruel, unfair, God is love, and fair, He do not need to save anybody because every body is sin, but he give a chance to whosoever believe in Him to save. Because he love
God is not in the gambling business where some win and others lose. He is in the business of saving His elect, I never said He was cruel for casting sinners into hell to burn forever. They deserve it so He is not cruel at all.
"Whosoever" refers to Gods elect, if it doesn't refer to His elect then God is a liar
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
God is not in the gambling business where some win and others lose. He is in the business of saving His elect, I never said He was cruel for casting sinners into hell to burn forever. They deserve it so He is not cruel at all.
"Whosoever" refers to Gods elect, if it doesn't refer to His elect then God is a liar
Every body deserve go to hell because every body are sinner. He invite whosoever believe in Him to be forgiven.

You change the word whosoever into some

The verse after you change become

For God so love the world(part of the world) so He give His begotten son whosoever ( the invitation not for all.......

I am a sinner, I am not fell and not entitle to change a His Holy word, I don't know about you, you may know better than God so you correct His word.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
Every body deserve go to hell because every body are sinner. He invite whosoever believe in Him to be forgiven.

You change the word whosoever into some

The verse after you change become

For God so love the world(part of the world) so He give His begotten son whosoever ( the invitation not for all.......

I am a sinner, I am not fell and not entitle to change a His Holy word, I don't know about you, you may know better than God so you correct His word.
So you don't believe Jesus when He said "all those that the Father has given Me will be saved" He said that nobody would snatch them out of My Fathers hand.
Why didn't He say, "the whole world will be saved", notice He only mentions "those that My Father has given Me" in other words (the elect of God) will be saved.
The reprobate don't stand a chance, God never wanted to save them. If He did want to, He would have. Don't forget, God can do anything. You make it sound like God sent His Son to save the world then crossed His fingers that the world would accept Him.
The Gospel is foolishness to the reprobate, they spit on God. They hate Him and His Son and they would never accept someone they hate. We all hated God before He saved us, only a liar would deny that fact
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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So you don't believe Jesus when He said "all those that the Father has given Me will be saved" He said that nobody would snatch them out of My Fathers hand.
Why didn't He say, "the whole world will be saved", notice He only mentions "those that My Father has given Me" in other words (the elect of God) will be saved.
The reprobate don't stand a chance, God never wanted to save them. If He did want to, He would have. Don't forget, God can do anything. You make it sound like God sent His Son to save the world then crossed His fingers that the world would accept Him.
The Gospel is foolishness to the reprobate, they spit on God. They hate Him and His Son and they would never accept someone they hate. We all hated God before He saved us, only a liar would deny that fact
1. Base on the Bible, whosoever believe will be save. It mean the Father will give the believer to Jesus, whosoever not believe will not given to Jesus

2. You say God never want to save the reprobate, we are all reprobate and some of us accept Jesus, and whosoever believe will be save.

3. You say God don't want to save the whole world, yep God only save whosoever believe in Him.

Remember God is love and just. He invite whosoever to accept Him
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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One more

You say all that Father give to me will be save, yes because Father give only the believer

No body would snatch from my Father hand. Yes God is powerful to protect the believer, but He not force every body, if one walk away from Him, that is different story.

Israel was His elect, than they walk away
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
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1. Base on the Bible, whosoever believe will be save. It mean the Father will give the believer to Jesus, whosoever not believe will not given to Jesus

2. You say God never want to save the reprobate, we are all reprobate and some of us accept Jesus, and whosoever believe will be save.

3. You say God don't want to save the whole world, yep God only save whosoever believe in Him.

Remember God is love and just. He invite whosoever to accept Him
That's not what the Bible says, the Bible says that God chose to save His elect before He made the world and He chose to leave the reprobate in their sins so they're sealed for destruction.
They can't believe, it's impossible for the reprobate to believe. Please study your Bible, it's all written in black and white
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
That's not what the Bible says, the Bible says that God chose to save His elect before He made the world and He chose to leave the reprobate in their sins so they're sealed for destruction.
They can't believe, it's impossible for the reprobate to believe. Please study your Bible, it's all written in black and white
Before He made the world, God plan to made Adam and Eve, He plan to put them in the garden of Eden not to hell. So God was prepare Eden for every of their offspring . But God made human not robot He give them free will. You and me have free will don't you, I am free to chose what kind of food I eat today, isn't it a freedom.
 
Jun 29, 2018
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Can a person be a devout Roman Catholic and be a faithful follower of Christ at the same time.

Most of my family, and relatives are Roman Catholics. They all claim to be Christians as well but they reject much of the Gospel. They only accept the parts where God showed His love to the world by sending His Son to be crucified to atone for the sins of the whole world.

They don't believe in being born again and giving your life to the Lord, they believe Mary is the mediator and Jesus provided the sacrifice for salvation.

Some have said that a Roman Catholic cannot be a christian so they're not saved. I find that hard to accept, of the 1.5 billion I'm sure that many will be saved but how can we identify the ones that are worth our time to witness to.

I have invested a lot of my time sharing the Gospel with them and I have seen no fruit at all. Where do I draw the line and say, enough of casting pearls before the swine.
The ideas you have expressed about Catholics are very primitive. Perhaps this is due to the fact that your Catholic relatives know very little about the teachings of the Catholic Church!
Mary, mother of Jesus, according to the teachings of Catholics, occupies a high position in heaven and, like other holy patrons, can intercede before Jesus Christ and before God. But she is not the mediator because here the exclusive position is occupied by Jesus Christ. According to the faith of Catholics, believers have growth in Christ and have a new birth. But the Catholics (like the Lutherans) are more aware of this idea than the modern neo-Protestants.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
Before He made the world, God plan to made Adam and Eve, He plan to put them in the garden of Eden not to hell. So God was prepare Eden for every of their offspring . But God made human not robot He give them free will. You and me have free will don't you, I am free to chose what kind of food I eat today, isn't it a freedom.
Nobody has free will, the elect of God are slaves of Jesus and the reprobate are salves to their sin and Satan
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
The ideas you have expressed about Catholics are very primitive. Perhaps this is due to the fact that your Catholic relatives know very little about the teachings of the Catholic Church!
Mary, mother of Jesus, according to the teachings of Catholics, occupies a high position in heaven and, like other holy patrons, can intercede before Jesus Christ and before God. But she is not the mediator because here the exclusive position is occupied by Jesus Christ. According to the faith of Catholics, believers have growth in Christ and have a new birth. But the Catholics (like the Lutherans) are more aware of this idea than the modern neo-Protestants.
This teaching is not in the Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
Nobody has free will, the elect of God are slaves of Jesus and the reprobate are salves to their sin and Satan
But you free to chose if you want to walk away from Jesus or Satan.

King Saul was chose to follow the Lord, than God chose him as a king, one day he chose to walk away from the Lord
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
But you free to chose if you want to walk away from Jesus or Satan.

King Saul was chose to follow the Lord, than God chose him as a king, one day he chose to walk away from the Lord
You are only free to chose what God allows you to chose. God is in control of every atom in the universe, including the decision making part of your brain. God has mind control over everyone, you better believe it friend. He controls everything, stop trying to take His power off Him. You might be sinning by doing that

king Saul was a reprobate from the start, he only acted like a child of God. just like Judas and many others
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
83
You are only free to chose what God allows you to chose. God is in control of every atom in the universe, including the decision making part of your brain. God has mind control over everyone, you better believe it friend. He controls everything, stop trying to take His power off Him. You might be sinning by doing that
Where do you come up with this stuff?

king Saul was a reprobate from the start, he only acted like a child of God. just like Judas and many others
No he wasn't.

1 Sam 9:
15) Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying,
16) To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
17) And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

1 Sam 10:
1) Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?
6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7) And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
9) And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
You are only free to chose what God allows you to chose. God is in control of every atom in the universe, including the decision making part of your brain. God has mind control over everyone, you better believe it friend. He controls everything, stop trying to take His power off Him. You might be sinning by doing that

king Saul was a reprobate from the start, he only acted like a child of God. just like Judas and many others
If Saul only acted like a child of God from the start, why God chose him?
At least God allows you to chose whether you accept Him or not, obey or not

If is not a choice why God warn if you obey you will be bless

Deut 28

28 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.

4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.

6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.

And if you disobey you will be cursed.

To me, obey and disobey sound like a choice or free will if it is predestined God do not need to warn, it doesn't matter if you predetermined to obey, you will obey without warning

15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
If Saul only acted like a child of God from the start, why God chose him?
At least God allows you to chose whether you accept Him or not, obey or not

If is not a choice why God warn if you obey you will be bless

Deut 28

28 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.

4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.

6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.

And if you disobey you will be cursed.

To me, obey and disobey sound like a choice or free will if it is predestined God do not need to warn, it doesn't matter if you predetermined to obey, you will obey without warning

15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
Yes, everything you said refers to either the elect or reprobate. These are the only two groups of people in the world, which one are you?
I will give you some good Bible verses later, which will prove that God predestined everything. Including who will be saved and who will be lost, don't worry God has full control
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
460
83
Yes, everything you said refers to either the elect or reprobate. These are the only two groups of people in the world, which one are you?
I will give you some good Bible verses later, which will prove that God predestined everything. Including who will be saved and who will be lost, don't worry God has full control
Hey Danny, while you're looking for good Bible verses that prove God predestined everything and has full control, please tell us what you do with these:

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also, please address these verses that refute your statement that King Saul was reprobate from the beginning.

1 Sam 9:
15) Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying,
16) To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
17) And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

1 Sam 10:
1) Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to becaptain over his inheritance?
6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7) And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
9) And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.