Are Roman Catholics Christians

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Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
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Hey Danny, while you're looking for good Bible verses that prove God predestined everything and has full control, please tell us what you do with these:

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also, please address these verses that refute your statement that King Saul was reprobate from the beginning.

1 Sam 9:
15) Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying,
16) To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
17) And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

1 Sam 10:
1) Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to becaptain over his inheritance?
6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7) And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
9) And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
I haven't got time to give you a detailed explanation of each verse, so Ill just skim over a few and then shoot through.

1. Whom would have all men be saved: Yes God would have all men be saved but He knows that the reprobate will never be saved unless He saves them which He already decided not to do before the foundation of the world.

2. He would rather that none perish: but He won't go back and change what He put into place before the world was made.

I'll have to come back and blast this thing to smithereens as soon as I get the chance, disregard what I said under duress above. I will fix it all up later. See ya
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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I haven't got time to give you a detailed explanation of each verse, so Ill just skim over a few and then shoot through.

1. Whom would have all men be saved: Yes God would have all men be saved but He knows that the reprobate will never be saved unless He saves them which He already decided not to do before the foundation of the world.
So then according to you, this verse does not mean what it says:

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2. He would rather that none perish: but He won't go back and change what He put into place before the world was made.
So God made a mistake in His original plan?

I'll have to come back and blast this thing to smithereens as soon as I get the chance, disregard what I said under duress above. I will fix it all up later. See ya
We'll be here.. :)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yes, everything you said refers to either the elect or reprobate. These are the only two groups of people in the world, which one are you?
I will give you some good Bible verses later, which will prove that God predestined everything. Including who will be saved and who will be lost, don't worry God has full control
You not answer my question friend

If God predestined you will obey or not, why God warn in deut, if you obey I will bless you and if you not obey I will cursed you

This warning will be meaningless because without warning if you predetermined to obey you will obey anyway, and if you predetermined not obey you will not obey. Why bother?
 
Jun 29, 2018
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This teaching is not in the Bible.
And what the doctrine of the afterlife in the Bible?
Based on the Bible, we can prove the views of Adventists, and Baptists and Catholics.
Adventists believe that the soul die with the flesh and heaven is now empty until the second coming of Christ. Catholics, Lutherans and Baptists are believe that souls of righteous go to heaven, and incorporeal state of souls are up to the second coming, when the resurrection takes place. Both are found in the base of the Bible, even though their views on the post-mortem state of soul are opposite.
The opinion that souls of righteous are live in paradise leads to the development of ideas about their hierarchical position: what of souls are closer to the throne of God, and what further. The Bible does not say anything definite about this, in the case of the Catholics, the mother of Jesus is placed closer to the throne of Christ and God than all the other saints. This idea can not be proved by the Bible, but it is impossible to refute it with the help of the Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
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And what the doctrine of the afterlife in the Bible?
Based on the Bible, we can prove the views of Adventists, and Baptists and Catholics.
Adventists believe that the soul die with the flesh and heaven is now empty until the second coming of Christ. Catholics, Lutherans and Baptists are believe that souls of righteous go to heaven, and incorporeal state of souls are up to the second coming, when the resurrection takes place. Both are found in the base of the Bible, even though their views on the post-mortem state of soul are opposite.
The opinion that souls of righteous are live in paradise leads to the development of ideas about their hierarchical position: what of souls are closer to the throne of God, and what further. The Bible does not say anything definite about this, in the case of the Catholics, the mother of Jesus is placed closer to the throne of Christ and God than all the other saints. This idea can not be proved by the Bible, but it is impossible to refute it with the help of the Bible.
What verse in the Bible that say Mary able to hear billions catholic pray?


I translate use google translate one of Indonesian catholic pray text

Swap to Indonesian
DELIVERY TO BUNDA MARIA - Thanksgiving 216
Santa Maria, Mother of God, we are grateful that God has freed you from the stain of sin since you were conceived; He is willing to pay attention to your humility, and make you the mother of the Savior. Kmi is grateful also that you have become the example of the believer. In response to God's call, you give yourself all your heart by saying, "I am a servant of the Lord, come to me according to your word."
Yes Mother, we, your sons, love you so much and want to follow your example. Ask us God's grace, so we always try to do God's will.


## Mother of affection, we give to you all our family. Let me always protect our family. May we all be children

who deserve your love and love one another sincerely.
We submit to you all our citizens with the leaders. You protect them in every effort to build a nation and a nation.
Yes Queen of lovers dami, stone for all nations united, living in harmony and peace. Open the path of faith for those who have not known your son, Jesus.
Pray for those who are persecuted for righteousness. May they be steadfast, and remain faithful to Jesus, your son.
Our Lady, the true helper, please bring all our pleas before your son, the Imperial Monarch of Peace, where every prayer of petition is granted, every burden of the heart is lightened, and all weaknesses are strengthened. He is our God now and all time. (Amen.)
Google Translate
Google › translate › home

Pay attention on ##, where in the Bible say Mary soul have ability to protect billions catholic
 
Jun 29, 2018
67
10
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What verse in the Bible that say Mary able to hear billions catholic pray?


I translate use google translate one of Indonesian catholic pray text

Swap to Indonesian
DELIVERY TO BUNDA MARIA - Thanksgiving 216
Santa Maria, Mother of God, we are grateful that God has freed you from the stain of sin since you were conceived; He is willing to pay attention to your humility, and make you the mother of the Savior. Kmi is grateful also that you have become the example of the believer. In response to God's call, you give yourself all your heart by saying, "I am a servant of the Lord, come to me according to your word."
Yes Mother, we, your sons, love you so much and want to follow your example. Ask us God's grace, so we always try to do God's will.


## Mother of affection, we give to you all our family. Let me always protect our family. May we all be children

who deserve your love and love one another sincerely.
We submit to you all our citizens with the leaders. You protect them in every effort to build a nation and a nation.
Yes Queen of lovers dami, stone for all nations united, living in harmony and peace. Open the path of faith for those who have not known your son, Jesus.
Pray for those who are persecuted for righteousness. May they be steadfast, and remain faithful to Jesus, your son.
Our Lady, the true helper, please bring all our pleas before your son, the Imperial Monarch of Peace, where every prayer of petition is granted, every burden of the heart is lightened, and all weaknesses are strengthened. He is our God now and all time. (Amen.)
Google Translate
Google › translate › home

Pay attention on ##, where in the Bible say Mary soul have ability to protect billions catholic
I must tell you that I am not a defender or an opponent of the cult of Virgin Mary.
But I can tell that in the tradition of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, the appeal to the intercession of the saints to God is based on the idea that they are alive and can help, as are the prayers of the living righteous.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I must tell you that I am not a defender or an opponent of the cult of Virgin Mary.
But I can tell that in the tradition of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, the appeal to the intercession of the saints to God is based on the idea that they are alive and can help, as are the prayers of the living righteous.
Soul is alive, whether save or unsave. Unsave will alive in the hell, saved in heaven. But where in the Bible say they able to hear billions catholic pray?

Where in the Bible say Mary soul able to protect billion of catholic?
 
Jun 29, 2018
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Soul is alive, whether save or unsave. Unsave will alive in the hell, saved in heaven. But where in the Bible say they able to hear billions catholic pray?

Where in the Bible say Mary soul able to protect billion of catholic?
In the Bible nothing is said about this. There is a church legend of the Assumption of the Virgin. Therefore, with regard to Mary, in the teaching of the Orthodox and Catholics, Mary was lifted up in the body. Here the Church legend assimilates to Mary the biblical reports concerning the bodily transfer of the Old Testament righteous (Enoch, Moses, Elijah) to heaven. While the ascension of the body of Moses, as mentioned in the epistle of Judas, rests, as you probably know, on the apocryphal (non-canonical) Old Testament source and on the Gospel narrative about transfiguration of Christ and the appearance of Moses together with Elijah.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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In the Bible nothing is said about this. There is a church legend of the Assumption of the Virgin. Therefore, with regard to Mary, in the teaching of the Orthodox and Catholics, Mary was lifted up in the body. Here the Church legend assimilates to Mary the biblical reports concerning the bodily transfer of the Old Testament righteous (Enoch, Moses, Elijah) to heaven. While the ascension of the body of Moses, as mentioned in the epistle of Judas, rests, as you probably know, on the apocryphal (non-canonical) Old Testament source and on the Gospel narrative about transfiguration of Christ and the appearance of Moses together with Elijah.
Yep, I read about assumption of Mary, but I don't believe it.

Let me make analogy: I remember when Obama bought a dog for his daughters, it was in the news

I bought a oh for my son, no body know.

Why?

Because Obama is president, a man with high social status, and I am ordinary citizens, a man with low social status.

It is normal, a man with high status get more publication. It happen every where.

When God take Elijah to heaven, it is in the news, we call it bible,

Mary have highest status than Elijah (according to catholic) why not in the Bible

And according to this article, the doctrine declare in 1950 by pope Prius XII

Why declare after 2000 years. If this happen must be in the Bible like what happen to Elijah. This is extraordinarily event.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Assumption-Christianity

Quote
The doctrine was declared dogma for Roman Catholics by Pope Pius XII in the apostolic constitution Munificentissimus Deus on November 1, 1950. The Assumption is not considered a revealed doctrine among the Eastern Orthodox and is considered an obstacle to ecumenical dialogue by many Protestants.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
123
43
You not answer my question friend

If God predestined you will obey or not, why God warn in deut, if you obey I will bless you and if you not obey I will cursed you

This warning will be meaningless because without warning if you predetermined to obey you will obey anyway, and if you predetermined not obey you will not obey. Why bother?
'Why bother" God bothered to save His elect, that's why. We are all reprobate until God saves us, we can't save ourselves by faith because faith is given by God to His elect only
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,058
7,464
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Florida
You not answer my question friend

If God predestined you will obey or not, why God warn in deut, if you obey I will bless you and if you not obey I will cursed you

This warning will be meaningless because without warning if you predetermined to obey you will obey anyway, and if you predetermined not obey you will not obey. Why bother?
I don't believe that God predestines whether or not someone will obey Him, but rather He knows everything we will ever do before we even do it or were even created. God may not predestines what we will or will not do but the choices we make will shape our destiny.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,737
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If Saul only acted like a child of God from the start, why God chose him?
At least God allows you to chose whether you accept Him or not, obey or not

If is not a choice why God warn if you obey you will be bless

Deut 28

28 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.

4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.

6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.

And if you disobey you will be cursed.

To me, obey and disobey sound like a choice or free will if it is predestined God do not need to warn, it doesn't matter if you predetermined to obey, you will obey without warning

15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

Its a choice that is impossible to make unless He who has no form reveals who he is by a work of His faith. Without that work, working in us we have no understanding who he is and what he requires of us. As always he must do the first work (cause and effect)

".John 6 informs us it is the work of God that we can believe Him It is not the work of those who have "no faith. How would they seek after Him in order to understand? Imagine?


"Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is "no "faith
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
411
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You said when the weather gets bad and rainy your wify, which is misspelled and should be wifey, acts crazy, so - oh no oh no! you meant internet! oh no my gosh! I'm going to stop coming in here I'm too stupid for conversation. Literally too stupid...:mad:







 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
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'Why bother" God bothered to save His elect, that's why. We are all reprobate until God saves us, we can't save ourselves by faith because faith is given by God to His elect only
I am not ask why God bother His elect.

My question is, if God predestined a group to be elect before the foundation of the world and another predestined to go to hell, why God warn, if you obey you will be bless if not will be cursed.

If you predestined to obey, you will obey without warning anyway.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
I don't believe that God predestines whether or not someone will obey Him, but rather He knows everything we will ever do before we even do it or were even created. God may not predestines what we will or will not do but the choices we make will shape our destiny.
In my opinion God can do every thing, and God chose to make a man with free will
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
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Its a choice that is impossible to make unless He who has no form reveals who he is by a work of His faith. Without that work, working in us we have no understanding who he is and what he requires of us. As always he must do the first work (cause and effect)

".John 6 informs us it is the work of God that we can believe Him It is not the work of those who have "no faith. How would they seek after Him in order to understand? Imagine?


"Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is "no "faith
So you believe it is the work of God that make one have no faith in Him?

Why God so cruel to make people not believe in Him and go to hell

I am not agree, bible say God is love, loving God not deliberately make people go to hell with no chance to heaven. God die on the cross to give a chance to whosoever believe to go to heaven
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,737
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So you believe it is the work of God that make one have no faith in Him?

Why God so cruel to make people not believe in Him and go to hell

I am not agree, bible say God is love, loving God not deliberately make people go to hell with no chance to heaven. God die on the cross to give a chance to whosoever believe to go to heaven
No that's the work of the father of lies . Mankind gave up the will of God to do the peasure of another's will and died.

Hell is a living suffering performed above ground.

God is not merciless. Those who do not have the favor of God's love perish never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever.


Two kinds of mercy and not that God bestows grace on one and makes another person suffer for his own sin forever and ever. Their substance gone up in smoke as their temporal spirit returns to the Father of spirits and their temporal bodies return to the dust.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
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I am not ask why God bother His elect.

My question is, if God predestined a group to be elect before the foundation of the world and another predestined to go to hell, why God warn, if you obey you will be bless if not will be cursed.

If you predestined to obey, you will obey without warning anyway.
You missed the point, everyone is born reprobate. God chooses to give some the gift of belief so they can believe when they hear, and He leaves the rest to remain dead in sin
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
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No that's the work of the father of lies . Mankind gave up the will of God to do the peasure of another's will and died.

Hell is a living suffering performed above ground.

God is not merciless. Those who do not have the favor of God's love perish never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever.


Two kinds of mercy and not that God bestows grace on one and makes another person suffer for his own sin forever and ever. Their substance gone up in smoke as their temporal spirit returns to the Father of spirits and their temporal bodies return to the dust.
None of that is Biblical, it's only your own private interpretation. The Bible doesn't teach annihilation, THAT'S THE WORK OF THE FATHER OF LIES.
God must punish sinners severely, or He's not a just God. The reprobate hope he He will annihilate them, but that doctrine comes from the pits of hell. God's wrath and justice will be served upon all the reprobate, whether you believe it or not.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No that's the work of the father of lies . Mankind gave up the will of God to do the peasure of another's will and died.

Hell is a living suffering performed above ground.

God is not merciless. Those who do not have the favor of God's love perish never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever.


Two kinds of mercy and not that God bestows grace on one and makes another person suffer for his own sin forever and ever. Their substance gone up in smoke as their temporal spirit returns to the Father of spirits and their temporal bodies return to the dust.
I don't understand what you say

So do you believe salvation is predestined or not.

And you say unsaved spirit go to the Father, not go to hell?